Iran Reportedly Rejects Demands To Halt Nuclear Efforts

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mactastic, Aug 22, 2006.

  1. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #1
    So apparently, despite Israel's "mighty victory", Iran is emboldeded. And to top that off, because our troops are busy in Iraq, Iran is emboldened. The Iranians (and many others) also saw the recent Israeli-Hezbollah conflict as a dress rehersal for any US intervention in Iran. The results of the conflict also embolden Iran. Not to mention that Bush's disastrous policies in the ME in general have upset the Sunni-Shia balance, and tilted things dramatically in favor of the Shia, which also has the effect of emboldening Iran.

    The fact that Iran is in as good of a position as they are to dictate terms of their nuclear program is due, in no small part, directly to the decisions George W. Bush has made during his presidency. He has made America less safe by his actions, and this Iranian mess is just one way we are seeing those result.
     
  2. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #2
    Yes it is so obvious, none of this is Iran's fault or problem. They are doing all this because they feel we can't stop them, therefore it is our fault.
    How about this take....
    Iran has thumbed its nose at the Europeans and UN, defiantly and arrogantly developing a program for "energy" at a higher cost than what is needed, and coincidentally this program will be able to make nuclear grade uranium. Yes the country that says Israel should not exist has blowoff the Germans and other non US countries proposal to help them develope nuclear energy that would not give them weapons grade material. What could there motive be? There is one good guess that most countries have.

    There is no placating these people. If Hezb had been dealt a fatal blow, then they would be doing this because they "felt threatened". but because Hezb is still alive it is because "they are emboldened". BS!! It is because they want Nuke Weapons.
     
  3. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #3
    If I were Iran, I would tell the West to piss off. Iran is under no treaty obligation to suspend uranium enrichment or allow inspectors to poke around in their country, any more than the US or France is obligated to. The fact that the West is insisting upon these actions with no reasonable way to enforce their will is a recipe for disaster. The West shouldn't be demanding things they have no right to demand unless they are willing to back up their demands with force. If they're not willing to use force then they should not be demanding concessions that Iran would be insane to grant. The West is shooting themselves in the foot, here.
     
  4. elfin buddy macrumors 6502a

    elfin buddy

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    #4
    By that logic, the West have been shooting themselves repeatedly in the face. ;)

    I do think it's a little more complicated than that though. For example, Iran is a member of the United Nations, which carries its own obligations. If they really wanted to tell the West to piss off, they should just leave their seat at the UN. But that would probably get them sanctions too, oil or not.
     
  5. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #5
    It's not our fault, but our ability to 'game' the situation has been diminished by the administration's ham-handed approaches starting with Bush's 'Axis of Evil' speech and ending with our invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Yep. They want to be a regional power and the best way to do this, in their eyes, is to have a few nukes. The Iranians see that nations like India and Pakistan have been getting favorable deals irrespective of their nuclear programs, and they can how well nukes work as a defensive measure by looking at North Korea. The Iranians want to have a 'big stick' to shake and we've made it easier for them to insist on such a thing.

    Remember, the Iranians have a real reason to worry about the US, we've invaded countries to the west and east, we installed the Shah (a brutal dictator by-the-way), and we've put them into the same group as the 'hermit kingdom' and a country we invaded.

    Lastly, these people are playing a game of brinkmanship and Hezbollah was merely a pawn in this game; the Iranians knew they could spin it however they wished, and they know by funding Shi'a militias in Iraq and Hezbollah in Lebanon they can retain some 'client state' control over the region. Something we do as well.
     
  6. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #6
    Is it just me or is a bunch of countries with nuclear weapons telling a country they can't kind of silly?
     
  7. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #7
    Do as we say, not as we do. :rolleyes:
     
  8. mactastic thread starter macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #8
    Of course, the oh-so-predictable response from those who disagree with my analysis is to accuse me of blaming the US for Iran's actions, when -- if you'd bothered to comprehend what I wrote is not what I said at all.

    It seems there are many around here who can't seperate "we should be handling this better" from "WHAAAAAAAAAA!! stop saying it's all our fault". These are the WATB.

    I'm faulting the US for not being in a better position to deal with this threat, not for the threat itself. Do you get that? Sheesh.

    You'd think that would be self-explanatory, but apparently it isn't.
     
  9. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #9
    Funny, I had no problem getting your point, mac.

    The real disgrace is that after Afghanistan the Iranians wanted to negotiate with us on a whole variety of issues, but the Bush administration decided they couldn't talk to "bad" guys. Didn't the 2000 Bush campaign tell us the "adults" would be back in charge of foreign policy? Instead we got fanatics bent on a new "pax americana" through preemptive use of America's military might. The result is a weakening of America's military, an isolation and distrust of the US from allies, and an emboldening of enemies. Sheesh is right.
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    I must have missed Sheesh's post...:confused:
     
  11. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #11
    I think the mods must have deleted it. Either that or it is product one of those hallucinogenic flashbacks from a misspent youth of drugs and debauchery. ;)
     
  12. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #12
    I don't need reminding that they need to worry about us, they fund and sponsor terror, I hope they are worried.
    We haven't put them in any group they haven't earned through their own ill will.
     
  13. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #13
    I may be mistaken, but it seems you direct that comment to me. If so please quote where I accuse you of anything. My response is to the story, you should stop being the pityful and pursecuted.:rolleyes:
     
  14. mactastic thread starter macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #14
    Right there. You deliberately misrepresent my argument as if I said "therefore it is all our fault." :rolleyes:

    Stop being so butt-hurt when you get called on these things.
     
  15. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #15
    Ya thought you couldn't find me saying anything accusing you.:rolleyes: Those are comments toward the EU quotes, yours are meaningless in comparison. If I had said "Mac your wacked" and proceeded then you would be correct. Don't cry to me for your misunderstandings.
    My comments are exactly in line with everything I have been saying the past few days, no more for or against yours. They are in response to the statements made by "Dip...lomats". Everyone loves to make someone else the villain execept the actual villain. These pundits love to make them the unjustly persecuted, and WE embolden the unabashed.
     
  16. mactastic thread starter macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #16
    Could and did.
    Anyone else think Stub was responding to some unidentified, amorphous "EU quotes", or was he responding to my statement?
     
  17. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #17
    In your hurry to demonize Iran you've failed to understand anything about the last 50 years of Iranian history. Before our installation of the Shah, Iran was a secular country with a large population of westernized intellectuals and feminists. After the revolution, these people hoped a democracy would emerge, but the Ayatollah and young zealots like Ahmadinejad seized power and buried this hope for a time.
    Recently, though, Americanized youths, kids who go to the mall, wear American jeans and watch American television, like the O.C. (satellite dishes are illegal, but ubiqutous) were demanding cultural and economic reforms. This movement, however, has been distracted by the US actions in the Mid-East.
    With this in mind, we must realize that a worried Iran is a bad thing. I want the mullahs worrying about how to keep their largest demographic from revolting and unable to distract them with claims that the US is about to attack their country.

    I don't want the mullahs hiding in bunkers deciding between launching a modified No Dong at Tel Aviv or selling a nuke to Al Qaeda.

    Remember that while the Iranians sponsor terror, they sponsor groups they can control and influence. Iran wants to be a regional power, which is why they meddle so much in Iraq and Lebanon, and why they want nuclear weapons.

    You have the mistaken belief that they'll quake in their boots if we threaten them, but you fail to see that when you corner an animal it always bites.
     
  18. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #18
    Stu' appeared to be responding to you Mac, but there's some wiggle room in there.

    Stu' can cite anonymous 'diplomats' but that just makes his argument seem completely irrelevant and pointless. He can choose between the two.
     
  19. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #19
    This just doesn't seem like news to me - more like propaganda. I wouldn't be surprised if we extended this overture for the explicit purpose of having Iran reject it so now Bush can do some rabid finger pointing at the "unreasonable" Iranian government and put another tick mark in the "pro" column for forcibly exporting democracy to Iran.

    On a related note, it's been a long time since I've really studied history, but wasn't one of the reasons the Roman Empire fell was that the legions were spread too far, thin, and wide?
     
  20. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #20
    Concur with 99%. my builder and his brother in law are Iranian. We have had many a conversation over many a beer. He left in the 70's, he was in school in the UK when Komani returned. He didn't see some family members for years as they tried to get out.
    Iran has had a military buildup with sophisticated weapons, russian subs, for quite a while.
    They are doing the wag the dog routine, and I want the world to recognize it for what it is. I am glad we are on 2 sides listening in, Afg and Iraq are western controlled, the UN is starting to take landlord duties in Afg. and we of course are in the middle of a near if not total Iraq civil war. Iran is doing all it can there, and with Hezb. If we can tune out the PR and look at their actions it will be interesting.
    I was more hopeful of revolt by the masses awhile back, less so now. But there are more recent mumblings about discontent. How the country is going broke and citizens are not liking what is going on.
    I do not have the belief they will shake in their boots if we threaten them. They did with Reagan, but not now. I do believe we must hold international pressure to bare.
     
  21. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #21
    Surely some contradiction here? :confused:
     
  22. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #22
    Ya maybe, but you might get my drift. I understand your point.
     
  23. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #23
    Actually the US and France are under a treaty and are obligated to abide by these rules: Non Nuclear Proliferation Treaty

    Treaty states everyone has the right to pursue peaceful means of nuclear technology. The whole issue isn't denying Iran to develop nuclear power. The problem is there is plenty of evidence suggesting Iran is taking the world for a spin and developing the means for nuclear arms.

    Sort of off topic but he has made things far worse. I agree with that statement.

    Both sides were declaring victory. Neither are correct to claim such things.

    I could have sworn I heard that on coast to coast am or some radio talk show a few weeks ago.

    No one wants Iran to get nuclear weapons. It's not limited to the US.
     
  24. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #24
    I'm a bit confused, but I agree with this last statement. I think we need to use diplomacy and work with the Iranians and not just pound our shoe on the table demanding they give up their nuclear program, we need leverage, which we really don't have.

    The Iranians do have a military buildup, although I wouldn't be surprised to find that Iran, like Iraq, is more paper tiger than an actual fighting force and that for all their vaunted technology much of it is old Russian stuff that clearly doesn't work all that well. We should be wary of their subs, but I'm certain we've tasked a few of our own to keep watch.
    I think we can bluster a bit, but we can't scare the Iranians into over-reacting and do something incredibly stupid.

    Like I said earlier, Iran is somewhat cornered and like a rattlesnake cornered in your yard, trying to kill it with a shovel is much more likely to cause a strike than just giving it a way out and then shoving it in the right direction with a rake. And, you certaintly don't reach in there and try to strangle the little beast.
     
  25. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #25
    I somehow get the feeling that all this talk of destroying Israel, developing nukes, dominating the world is all political rhetoric in Iran. and that mahmoud ahmadinejad is just exploiting this to keep a firm grasp of power over his country.

    It seems too silly but then again, we do that in the US as well.
     

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