Iraq and the American Revolution

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by AP_piano295, Dec 18, 2005.

  1. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    One thing that I have always had a problem grasping when thinking about the Iraq invasion is the fact the Saddam really was a bad guy. Despite the fact that our reasons for going into Iraq were completely false, could the ends justify the means? But this morning I was thinking about the American Revolution compared to that of the Iraquis (I do consider the Iraq war a revolution of sorts)

    Well at some point American Revolutionaries had to decide that they wernt going to take it from the king anymore and that they were willing to fight for the rights they belived in. Later in the war we got help from France but we asked for that aid and the Americans had to make the initial decision that they were going to fight.

    The stark difference between the Iraq war and the American Revolution or any other revolution. The Iraqui people never made the decision that they needed to overthrow Saddam and win their rights. If they had decide to overthrow their barbaric leader and then the US had gotten involved to help them I think I would agree with an invasion/assistance in those circumstances but the Iraquis never decided they were going to fight for their freedom, we made the decision for them and that just doesnt work.

    Not entirely sure why I wrote this partly because I like writing and I was watching Murtha on Cspan this morning, love to hear opinions.
     
  2. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #2
    If we had done a better job of this revolution, we wouldn't be having this discussion. If we had finished what we started in Afghanistan and Pakistan first, gotten rid of the Taliban and gotten Osama, Iraq may have actually seemed like a logical future step. If we had actually planned Iraq better, with the right amount of troops, equipment an exit strategy, etc... well, this wouldn't be an issue and no one would be still talking about it because we would have won and we wouldn't be there anymore. Americans have very short attention spans and get very impatient with things that aren't instantaneous. It's not like this is some World War or something. The fact that we are still there with no time frame for when we won't be, and the fact that we don't exactly seem to be winning doesn't help either. Not to mention the reasons are still unclear for why we went there in the first place.

    Take out all the people who think Saddam caused 9/11 and they had WMDs pointed at us, and suddenly you won't find many people in support of this war.
     
  3. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #3
    really? you make it sound pretty easy.

    c.f. george herbert walker bush
     
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #4
    The crux of the matter is that democracy is very difficult to force on someone.

    But hey, a religious Shiite Islamic state friendly to Iran is what we were gunning for in Iraq originally anyway, right? We were trying to increase Iran's regional influence, weren't we? 'Cause you really couldn't have planned it better if that was the result you were seeking...
     
  5. AP_piano295 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    No its not easy not easy at all Im very thankful that I never had to live in a country where I had to risk it all for what I belived in. It would undoubtedly have been a very bloody heartbreaking a terrible fight, but I belive that they could have won aswell. I mean a handful of insuregents are fighting the most powerful country in the world and not being wiped out. If a large number of Iraquis had decided it necessary to dethrown Saddam I think they would have been sucessful.

    And yes Bush is a barbarian. Im not sure were quite at the revolution stage yet. I still think that our goverment works. Its just buggy and needs som fixing.
     
  6. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    Thats how i see it Mactastic, On a side note Western Music is no longer allowed to be played in Iran. Islam you got love it!
     
  7. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #7
    from here:
    that's what i meant by "c.f. george hw bush"
     
  8. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    I guess here is good place to make a comment, remember that big vote Iraq had? Guess who is winning the votes? Thats rights the Shiite's the same ones who run Iran. Way to go George! Another Islamic Theocracy bought and paid for by you and me, installed by George. Cost 350 billion, thousands of lives destroyed. Way to go George. Just what the world needs. Another Islamic Theocracy.................stay the course stay the course,fight them there not here and other spin.:rolleyes:
     
  9. OnceUGoMac macrumors 6502a

    OnceUGoMac

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    Exactly. The conflicts have nothing in common. The American Revolution wasn't really a revolution. It was a group of colonists fighting for it's independence from the parent country. We didn't cross the Atlantic and create a new government. The Iraqi people have tried to start revolutions, but they got their booties handed to them every time. Who controlled the military? Saddam, not the people.
     
  10. thedude110 macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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    That cracks me up -- makes it sound like the government was written by some poor Windows Vista progammer ...
     
  11. hcuar macrumors 65816

    hcuar

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    #11
    Actually during Gulf War I, many of the Iraqis did make the determination to overthrow. The US backed out and allowed the republican guard to slaughter them.

    I don't think the British were ever as evil as the Saddam regime. I don't think the American revolution started because of fear, but for capitol gain. Remember that most of our founding fathers just wanted a fairer deal and to be treated as British citizens. Had the Brits been less interested in maximizing the profit from the new world, well... we'd be speaking English? :eek: Queens English? Something like that.
     
  12. OnceUGoMac macrumors 6502a

    OnceUGoMac

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    The Iowan' s right.:p
     
  13. gekko513 macrumors 603

    gekko513

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    Sure sometimes it could, but not in this case when the decision was taken by leaders of countries with just 5% of the worlds population.

    That gives legitimy to any government that wants to make decisions on behalf of someone else under the pretense of "good intentions".
     
  14. AP_piano295 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Then the french revolution
     
  15. AP_piano295 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    And dont forget it never would have happened if the brits had been a bit less stingy with the camomile (please correct the spelling) :)
     
  16. AP_piano295 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    excellent point I agree, kinda what I was saying that we cant make a peoples decisions for them.
     
  17. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #17
    'Oh we have both kinds of music here, Country AND Western.'
    :p
     

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