Iraqis Burn and Dismember Bodies

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by idkew, Mar 31, 2004.

  1. idkew macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    #1
    Link- but be warned, it is VERY GRAPHIC

    I do not understand how someone could feel good about what they are doing. Even if you hate the person, this have gone over the line. Civilized people do not act in this way. Civilized people bury their dead enemies like the man/woman they were. Sad, sad day for Iraq.
     
  2. idkew thread starter macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    #2
    And the text:

     
  3. JesseJames macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    Sigh.
    They do resent us. I see it all as a sick form of pride. Remember Somalia?
    This strengthens my belief that people are truly beasts - at least the majority - with a veneer of civility.
    I try not to be cynical about mankind...but it's hard. Very hard.
     
  4. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #4
    Well, the response of the terrorists is for us to say, screw it, lets get out.

    So,


    Screw it, lets get out....
     
  5. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #5
    You know, it really makes me wonder what, if anything, we accomplished that was positive in this war. I just don't see anything at all. Yeah, Saddam tortured his citizens. Will that occur any less frequently when we leave?
     
  6. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #6
    if someone invaded your country, invalidated your religion, overthrew your government, and demanded that your entire society be completely different, all the while killing thousands of citizens, i'll bet you'd do some sick **** too.

    paul
     
  7. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

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    #7
    Its like the Lord of the Flies.

    Its astonishing in a way how short sighted these Iraqi's are being. Yes I'm sure its great fun to kill the foreigners and drag there bodies through the street. I can't think of anyone who doesn't enjoy a good bonfire, but if the people would realize the US troops won't be there forever, and that the more they fight the more we will stay. If the insurgency stopped today and everyone put down their guns and it got quiet (and the interim government requested it) the US troops would be out of the country by Halloween and all that would be left would be several billion dollars of infrastructure built by the Army Corps of Engineers.

    Part of me thinks the solution would be to take all the people from Fallujah and deport them to other parts of the country. Spread them out so they are disorganized put them into parts of the country where people are of the mind to say "don't rock the boat"
     
  8. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #8

    Yeah, treat 'em like cattle, good way to get the middle east to stop hating america.

    you people's attitudes are the exact reason terrorists exist in the first place. the idea that america has ANY business at all doing this kind of thing. if it were any other country, it would be an "invasion" and a "massacre" and "atrocity". To Iraqis, it still is. Their very lives are on the line, the lives of their children and grandchildren. You can't make people lay down and have naptime when they've been pushed this far.

    Laying down arms and accepting whatever rule is put in place, that's how saddam got started in the first place. we're a lot worse to them than saddam was, and i don't blame them at all for defending themselves from us.

    paul
     
  9. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #9
    and how will that kind of self-centered, self-serving "american" attitude, regarding iraqi people as some sort of chess pieces, help them hate americans less?
     
  10. ThomasJefferson macrumors 6502

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    #10
    This is a slow motion foreign policy train wreck. Sad that so many people sit there with a stupid look on their face while quoting fox newspeak about a democracy in Iraq. Well, I guess Harry Truman was right. The C students rule the world.
     
  11. idkew thread starter macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    #11
    you're right. maybe we could eat them after we barbecued them. and where was the stick to beat the piñata? what does the winner get?

    hating is one thing, this is another.
     
  12. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

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    #12
    We are demanding very few changes in their society. The changes we are making are pretty much only for good. We are arranging for a democracy that was nominally in place when Saddam was in power (but this time people won't be shot for not voting and there will be more than one name on the ballot) We have ousted a lot of the petty thugs that were powers unto themselves.

    As for religious changes we are more working on preserving the system that was in place before we invaded than changing anything. The national religion of Iraq will be Islam but it won't be "Shi'ite Islam" like in Iran and a lot of people were pushing for.

    Up until the first Gulf War Iraq was a very western country.
     
  13. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #13
    oh, ok, only if the entire world did as the americans tell them to, everything would be fine, because america knows best. :rolleyes:
     
  14. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #14
    yes, you are right. but i'm not arguing that this is not sick. (i think paul will agree with me too.)

    the point is, we are a part of the reasons these people do sick stuff. it's not like we are not part of the problem. and these news do nothing but instill the notion in the "C-students" in america that iraqi people are nuts. and just that "fact." these news are stupid without putting things into some kind of responsible context - so that people who see this news will ask why iraqis would do this AND why/how we might be part of the reasons.
     
  15. idkew thread starter macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    #15
    paul, please go read some news. the majority of iraqis are actually happy this change of power has happened. i don't feel like finding the link, but this is not the will of the many, it is the will of the few. notice the pictures show mostly young men; impressionable kids.

    and the us occupation worse than Saddam. you made me laugh on that one. What grounds do you have for this? Were is the "gestapo" stopping protesters, killing them for thinking differently? Were is the gas that is killing entire villages? Where is the coalition building great palaces for themselves at the expense of the impoverished many? Where is the official state support of suicide bombings of families?

    Well, at least i have had my laugh for the day.
     
  16. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #16
    Man am I glad my brother in law isn't there any more. I feel terribly sorry for all the Americans who are there and for their families and friends.

    As for the Iraqis who did this, of course this is terrible and inhumane, but it relates to a lot of expectable sentiment that our government should have realized would be the result of an invasion. Cheaney saying that the Iraqi people would great us with open arms and support our occupation was so condescending and unrealistic. Our administration lives in a fantasy world that creates a hell for the rest of us. Let's get rid of 'em (by voting, of course).

    Out government needs to realize that we have a positive message to bring in changing the world for the better, but that takes generational effort, not quick-fix invasions and drastic financial policies.
     
  17. ExoticFish macrumors 6502a

    ExoticFish

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    #17
    i just don't understand this crap at all. the problem is not that we're "invading" their country as there are lots of civilians that do understand that they have the oportunity to be free and are happy about it. the problem is that there are these religious finatics and people who are for some odd reason loyal to Sadam and his horid reign. if everyone hated us then we would be there because everyone would be trying to kill us, but they're not.

    this reminds me a lot of racism in the south that still goes in today. that 12 year old boy is beating dead bodies with sticks because his daddy says that's what right and that's what he was raised with.
     
  18. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #18
    Look, you wanted an answer as to why this happened. I'm not saying every iraqi hates us. many do. many are glad only that saddam is out, but still hate us for staying around, meddling with their new government (by and for the people? no, by and for the USA). But obviously, these people are not happy that we're there, and if you think they are, you're tripping.

    This is nothing compared to the mob mentality that could be happening. I'm not going to defend their actions, because i don't believe in violence like this. But i will say i can understand them. It's better than being so out of touch that i send "god bless our soldiers and their Holy work" chain letters on...

    paul
     
  19. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #19
    perhaps because his "daddy" has a brother who was killed during the invasion? perhaps he sees americans trampling over other islamic countries and using them for cheap oil?

    there are reasons.

    using words like "fanatic" and "for some odd reason" shows that we are not understanding the whole picture. i certainly don't. but i know enough that these things don't just happen because these people are "fanatic" - we have had a part in turning those people "fanatic" to begin with.
     
  20. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #20
    Right, right, and hitler wasn't "invading" europe, he was just freeing all of the citizens of the continent from jew oppression. They should have thanked himm, rather than resisting.

    I'm not making a direct comparison, but it's all in the ideals and values of the opposing sides. You're assuming the Iraqi's views and values will be the same as ours. That could not be further from the truth... Maybe they don't value freedom like we do? Do we have the right to demand that they do? I don't think so. The will of the people will continue to be done, just as it has been since before saddam took power.

    paul
     
  21. billyboy macrumors 65816

    billyboy

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    #21
    Between the powers that be and religious zealots on both sides of the globe, Iraq is an unholy mess that wont make good tea time viewing for years.

    Saddam had control of Iraq, but in the process was killing tens of thousands of his own people with little press coverage. To make things better, coalition forces sanctioned and bombed thousands of innocent Iraqis to death on global TV. Now Saddam has gone, it looks like the media can regularly send footage of coalition soldiers shooting up who knows who in the name of democracy trying to civilise an "obviously" uncivilised nation where people hack burnt bodies to pieces. We can watch tens of Western civilians being picked off as they go about tieing up the country's resources for Western consumers. We can also feel marginally sorry for hundreds of Iraqi police who, as virtual conscripts are trying to replace the most likely stabilising influence in Iraq - the disbanded Iraqi army. For following the wishes of th eoccupting forces, they are being blown to bits by fanatical hate-filled Iraqis with no respect for stand-in puppets of the Western invaders. And then you have pictures of the innocent Iraqi passers by caught up in insurgents plots bought on by the invasion by the coalition forces. Also, due to huge oversights on how to really occupy a country, the young fit and restless Iraqi people have been left nothing constructive to do now that chaos has been unleashed big time by the occupation and worthwhile jobs arent being created.

    The blind leaders with no idea of history are leading the bewildered and angry and frustrated to years of future hassle and violence all for media consumption.
     
  22. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #22
    There's nothing odd about people being loyal to Sadam. Many people, albeit a minority of the overall population, benefited from Sadam's regime, which placed them in superior positions to the peoples that Sadam's government exploited or killed. That the people who did well under the old system would resent it being torn down _should have been expected_.

    Sadam's regime was also secular, meaning that it persecuted or sidelined elements of Islam. That his departure would result in an explosion of radical Islam _should have been expected_.
     
  23. MorganX macrumors 6502a

    MorganX

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    #23
    The only problem is no one has invalidated their religion, and they were doing sick ***** already. They're doing a whole lot less of it now. And more Iraquis are happy and live torture free.

    However, there history shows they will not be able to live together as one. Hasn't anyone read their History? Lawrence of Arabia?
     
  24. Sedulous macrumors 68000

    Sedulous

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    #24
    I would also imagine most people in those pictures are not the most well educated and informed individuals. There is probably a great deal of propaganda telling them that all foreigners are there for nefarious reasons. Fear is a powerful motivator. The Bush administration has used it to great effect as have many others before it.
     
  25. jxyama macrumors 68040

    jxyama

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    #25
    and we know all that how..? american news feed? :rolleyes:
     

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