IRR Call-Up

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by skunk, Jun 29, 2004.

  1. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #1
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/29/iraq.reserves.ap/index.html

    I would imagine there will be a certain amount of "resistance" to this...
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #2
    interesting how CNN draws the distinction
     
  3. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #3
    At the end of same article...
    This leads me to believe we are looking for help more with logistics, than for an extra guy with a rifle. As related to Skunks' question, I wonder what the demographics are of the 118,000 being looked at, in age, and employment. Knowing first hand how hard it is to secure a decent job in a professional field, I would wonder about having to forcibly give one up...as it has been shown that companies do not wait for you with open arms. I think this could make alot of people very unhappy.
     
  4. Stelliform macrumors 68000

    Stelliform

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    #4
    My former neighbor is a former Marine. I think he just passed the period in which he could be called back. He never forgot that they could call him back for any reason during that period. He expected that he might get the call after Sept. 11th. I imagine that those who are being called half expected this. I don't know if they are happy about it, but I am certain that they shouldn't have been caught off guard.
     
  5. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #5
    The 18-24 crowd shouldn't be too surprised when they start getting draft board notices soon either eh?. Sometime after November is probably the target date for the administration to announce it though.

    Just another consequence if GWB is elected for the first time.
     
  6. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #6
    If we've turned over authority to the Iraqis already, why do we still need civil affairs people? Shouldn't the "soveriegn" Iraqi government be hiring its own citizens in order to build its government? And now that the Iraqis are in charge, shouldn't we be seeing commensurate force reductions? After all, it's our troops who are drawing the most fire, so getting them out and letting the Iraqis run things would seem to be a high priority, wouldn't you think? Unless, of course, our goal isn't Iraqi freedom and self-rule?
     
  7. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #7
    The answer, of course, is that the Iraqis aren't in charge. Negroponte is. We have 5,000 staffmembers in the U.S. Embassy there. That's quite a few more than is needed for diplomatic relations.

    I think we're a long way from the draft, but the short-of-the-draft measures are going to get more and more prevalent.
     
  8. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    So your position is: GWB re-election = reinstated draft?

    Do you seriously think there's even a 1% chance that this country will re-instate a draft? Or are you just taking an extremist position that you don't really believe for some reason?
     
  9. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #9
    Well, I personally don't equate this with any potentiality of a draft...my line of thinking is that this would merely be to rotate out some of our soldiery who have been stationed in Iraq/Afghanistan much longer than they probably should have...and/or to give the US a little more flexibility and ability to regroup/retrain for slightly altered mission(s) ahead...and if it is merely this, then I agree with the idea, although as I mentioned above, I wonder about the disruption (economic) this will be for many Americans affected...

    There is, of course, the chance that we may be gearing up for something else, either in actuality or just bringing troop levels up to a degree where we could credibly bluff such an option...I'm thinking Iran or Syria here...but I am NOT at this point seriously suggesting such a scenario, just a chance, which if there was another domestic attack (see zims cat thread), would be elevated to a real possibility.

    There is also the question of whether there are plans/options to employ these people domestically in Homeland Security, as this is still an area where we are understaffed/underfunded...

    end speculation...
     
  10. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #10
    Look at the numbers. Draft is almost inevitable. If they're tapping the IRR, things are getting thin.
     
  11. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #11
    welcome back, pbrit. thought you got disappeared or something :)
     
  12. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    "Draft is almost inevitable". Mmmmmkay.

    You know that we still have tens of thousands of troops in Korea and Germany we could shift around?

    You know that even if the military started a draft tomorrow, it would take six months before the first draftees ended up in Iraq?

    You know that the whole US military is geared towards the professional soldier?

    You know that the US public would vote anyone who agreed to a draft out of office, especially now that the legal voing age is 18? (It wasn't in the Vietnam era.)

    You know that the number of countries that have compulsory service has dwindled to almost nothing? (AFAIK it's only Singapore and Israel now.)

    So why do you think it's almost inevitable? Is this something you're rooting for or excited about? And why the "almost" if you're so sure? Would you bet money on the draft being reinstated within - say - 18 months?
     
  13. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #13
    why was that not done instead of the IRR move?
     
  14. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #14
    Aren't we planning on doing just that?

    Yes and yes. I also know that a military will need meat to throw at a guerilla war in order to sustain it.

    I thought the US public would vote anyone who waged an unnecessary war predicated on a lie out of office. The polls show that the public are willing to tolerate such things.

    If I have any faith in the Bush administration, it's that they will always find a way to frighten and confuse enough the public to support them enough to get away with just about anything.

    How many countries currently have 100,000+ troops deployed in hostile combat in separate theatres?

    I'm good for $5 on a piece of that action. I'm not excited about it but I'm sure it's going to happen. I just don't see how we can stretch things much thinner.

    These guys have to rotate out, and the occupation promises to last years. Their obligations run out eventually. They're already using the Guard, the Reserves, stop losses, reassignment, and now IRR. What's the next logical step?
     
  15. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #15
    No, but my iBook did. The display wiring to be precise. I finally sat down this evening and fired up my soldering iron.
     
  16. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #16
    We're reducing the number of troops in Korea. I know a guy who was stationed there, came home on rotation, and was stop-lossed. He's probably in Iraq by now; he was reassigned.
     
  17. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #17
    One problem with your analysis is if the Bush administration is reelected it doesn't need to worry about the reaction of a new draft on the 2008 Presidential election.

    It is clear that the Bush doctrine does not end in Iraq. US military intervention is possible, even likely, in some of the following nations - Iran, Syria, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, and Sudan. If even one of the those countries is invaded by US forces, just how stretched will our military be? The answer for the neoconservatives who wish to reorder the world in their dream image may well be the draft. My hope is they won't get the chance to try.

    By the way, you are just flat out wrong on your estimation of countries which still have a draft. Here is a link from the UN on the subject (from a easy google search.)

    THE QUESTION OF CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION TO MILITARY SERVICE
     
  18. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #18

    Granted this is a very different situation than the first Gulf War but the IRR was dipped into then as well.


    Lethal
     
  19. CramSoup macrumors member

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    #19
    although the US Air Force does not partisipate in a draft, I find it funny that people think a draft is on the way. The Air Force has had an enlistment freeze for the last 3 months. And is cutting back recruits by almost half for next year!!!
    a draft.....NEVER!!!!!
     
  20. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #20
    are you saying the AF won't have a draft anytime soon (never is a long time), or that because the AF has an enlistment freeze, no branch of the armed forces will have a draft anytime soon?
     
  21. Voltron macrumors newbie

    Voltron

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    #21
    Also while someone posted a link stating Army enlistment is down they were already at 99% full enlistment and the year ends for them I think in October, maybe sooner. So only reason they would need to increase that is if we are going to increase our standard standing strength.
     
  22. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #22
    This may be simplistic, as I admit I am not an expert in the Armed Forces, but...is there not a limit to the air force personnel you can have, as related to the amount of planes, and logistic support needed for them? The Marines and the Army OTOH could need a larger supply of groung forces (Grunts) which are not tied to expensive hardware, and used more heavily than say the Navy and AF, especially in Urban Warfare?
     
  23. CramSoup macrumors member

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    #23
    The possibility of being called up from IRR is a very long shot, but it is part of your original commitment!!!! Eveyone has an 8 year commitment 2 active + 6 IRR. 4 active- 4 IRR etc.
    It's kinda like joining the guard or reserve, having them pay for all your college and training then crying that you have to put on your uniform and deploy!!! It's what you signed up for !!!!
    I didn't mean ther will "never" ne a draft, that was loose, but there won't be one in this conflict.
    Bill Clinton deployed more troops while in office,then Bush 43 has!
     
  24. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #24
    that surprises me. please substantiate.
     
  25. Anonymous Freak macrumors 601

    Anonymous Freak

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    #25
    A friend was almost subject to this.

    A friend of mine was in Air Force ROTC on a scholarship while in college, but dropped out during his third year. He had already gone to basic training (which AF ROTC sends you to between your second and third year,) so he had technically been enlisted. (After you graduate, they are given a commission and you are then officially an officer.) Well, because he was enlisted (meaning he is subject to military discipline,) and because he owed back his scholarship, he was placed in the IRR.

    He was officially on IRR status for 8 years, or until he paid back his scholarship, whichever takes longer.

    The 8 years was up last December, and he paid off the scholarship in March. Had he not paid it off, he would probably be on his way to Iraq soon.

    That said, another close friend (of both of ours,) lost one of her high-school sweethearts in Iraq about a month ago. (She hadn't seen him since high school, but it still hit her hard.) She had been looking forward to seeing him at her upcoming high school reunion. (She didn't know he was in Marines.)
     

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