Is Discrimination OK?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by beatsme, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. beatsme macrumors 65816

    beatsme

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    Oct 6, 2005
    #1
    just for discussion:

    is it ok for a private social club to restrict access to membership based on sex/religion/ethnicity, etc.? Freedom of association, and all that?

    I'll go one further:
    is it ok for the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade to exclude a float entry from (for example) a gay or lesbian group? Macy's is paying the cost of staging the event, they've lined up broadcast sponsors, etc. Are they within their rights to determine the content of the event?

    any thoughts?
     
  2. bowens macrumors 6502a

    bowens

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    #2
    I don't see any problem with it. If it is a private club, they can let in who they want to let it. It's not like a public school where they have to let everybody in. If it is their decision to discriminate against some people, then they should be able to make that choice. One example that lots of people got mad about was Augusta National's choice to exclude women from their membership. They are a private organization and they should be, and are, able to make that choice.
     
  3. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #3
    The level of tolerance seems to be proportionate to the public nature of the event or gathering in question. The more an event is seen as a "public venue" the less societal tolerance there is for this kind of exclusion. Once an event is more a cultural institution than a private gathering civil cases can be explored.
     
  4. adroit macrumors 6502

    adroit

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  5. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #5
    Private clubs can associate with whomever they want on private property. On public property is it a different matter.

    See the Boy Scouts. They are free to discriminate, but they no longer (in many areas) get a free ride on public property because of their choice.
     
  6. beatsme thread starter macrumors 65816

    beatsme

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    #6
    that's a fair point, I'll grant you. It is public property.

    How about this then:
    should Macy's be forced to include an entrant whose focus of activity is political in nature? For example, should they be forced to accept a NARAL float? How about a Heritage Foundation float? Or a float from ActUp or the Creativity Movement?

    It seems to me that allowing an entrant from one of the groups listed above, even one where no political message is stated or implied, could be construed as a vote of support for that particular group. Would Macy's then be within their rights to exclude such an entrant, on the grounds that they have no desire to make a political statement of any kind?
     
  7. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #7
    bingo. Plus it's an american tradition, therefore the door is open to civil suits.
     
  8. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #8
    i missed how we got from gay/lesbian to political. please explain.
     
  9. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    Oct 21, 2004
    #9
    Within their private setting, I say they have protected rights to restriction.

    Here, I agree that it's public ground and that their context changes and bears on their right(s).

    Side note: (Not a hijack attempt) There are various kinds of discrimination: Racial, religious, age, gender, sexual orientation, language, appearance, etc., but I've been wanting to revisit just the plain "Racism" issue specifically addressing growth of White Supremacist groups in the U.S. in light of the Labor Day celebrations of KKK (Harrison, AR), disturbing web sites and posted polls by the "mud in the blood" hate mongers. I know it's been kicked around, and I still don't know whether to just stew or start a thread, elsewhere?
     
  10. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #10
    No they shouldn't, but the guidelines must be set up in advance. Allowing the Heritage Club to have a float while denying the ACLU should not be allowed. If you allow one group to have a political-in-nature float, you can't then tell someone else that they can't just because you disagree with them.

    But if you have rules that say "no political floats" I believe that passes constitutional muster.

    There was a case involving some of these issues in Southern California recently. I'll see if I can find the relevant information.

    Edit: Ah, here we are.
    Not sure how far this has progressed legally, but the argument the parade organizers successfully used was that they are allowed to set the rules for their own parade, although those rules need to be fairly enforced which is a very grey area.
     
  11. ~Shard~ macrumors P6

    ~Shard~

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    #11
    Discrimination is okay if you discriminate against all races, sexes, groups, etc. equally. That way no one's left out. :eek: :p ;) :cool:
     
  12. beatsme thread starter macrumors 65816

    beatsme

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    #12
    that was my doing. When I said "gay/lesbian" in the OP I had in mind something like ActUp, though I didn't explicitly say so. Just a random jump. Don't mean to imply that all gay/lesbian organizations are political in nature, as I would guess that they're not.
     
  13. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #13
    mac pretty much covered my understanding of the legal aspects.

    My opinion on this parade stuff is that if political groups in general are okay, any political group should be allowed. Nowhere is it written that I'm supposed to agree with somebody's politics.

    If the parade is non-political in nature, political groups ought not to even try to enter. Sorta like trying to crash a formal party while wearing a bathing suit. Why be a trouble-making spoilsport, just trying to mess up someone else's fun?

    :), 'Rat
     
  14. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #14
    People discriminate against racists every day. So it is OK. ;)
     
  15. beatsme thread starter macrumors 65816

    beatsme

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    #15
    hey Yaba,

    I think Kinky Friedman is gonna be on Imus Friday morning...
     
  16. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #16
    Imus eh? Do you happen to know the time? I heard him on the radio this afternoon and I am very impressed. I'm excited man!
     
  17. beatsme thread starter macrumors 65816

    beatsme

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    #17
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036713/

    looks like 6:29 EDT, but I dunno what time that would be for you. Set the VCR ;)
     
  18. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #18
    I'll get up at 5:30. I have nothing better to do. :p
     
  19. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #19
    Same way global warming and evolution did. ;)
     
  20. Macnoviz macrumors 65816

    Macnoviz

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  21. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #21
    I agree that staying apolitical is probably Macy's goal.

    If they accept something from a gay-lesbian group, then they probably have to accept something from Fred Phelps' "church". That might lead to an interesting parade, but it would hardly be smart business sense.
     
  22. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #22
    When I joined the Grouch Club in the early nineties it was (unbelievably) one of the few old-style clubs not to discriminate against women (or race/age/etc for that matter).

    It's expensive, though, and the vetting process is something of a black art, so it could still be accused of discrimination on grounds of money/occupation/nepotism.
     
  23. geese macrumors 6502a

    geese

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    #23
    Of course its not you ginger Bas***d!!!!

    Sorry, couldnt resist that joke:eek:
     

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