Is Karl Rove at work again??

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Sep 22, 2004.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    Just think. If it hadn't been for incompetence and dirty tricks like these, Bush might not be president now.

    Nice, eh? Apparently some things never change.
     
  2. relimw macrumors 6502a

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    SC
    #2
    I have no problem spending $5 to go get a photo id from the DMV, and I wish that more people would, and that one would be required to show it to vote.
    If it wasn't for people like the famous dead Chiago democrats, or the infamous 50k dual registered New Yorkers (registered in Florida and NY) we wouldn't have as many elections contested by cheats as we have now.

    If you don't like the rules, vote to change them. If you're scared to vote, read what your rights are. Simple.
     
  3. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #3
    Reminds me of Nadars plight.
     
  4. wwworry macrumors regular

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    Mar 23, 2002
    #4
    so I see stubeef and relimw don't have a problem with those false fliers, intimidation tactics or removing registered voters from the voting rolls. It makes me so glad to be an American. :eek:
     
  5. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #5
    Fancy that, they already did...

     
  6. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #6
    If we are going to require photo id's then we need to make it easier for people to get them. Offering evening and weekend hours would go a long way to those that struggle to pay the bills.
     
  7. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #7
    Universal, free, and distributed as such to every eligible voter. That's the only way it's legal to require photo ID.
     
  8. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    #8
    GIVE ME A BREAK, YOU SHOULD WORRY WITH COMMENTS LIKE THAT.
    Quite assumptive. Talk about generating falsenesses.
    Notice you had nothing to say about the dnc-nader conflict. I love those holy disenfranchise folks here.

    Let me say to the contrary, I believe every eligable voter has the right to vote or NOT to vote. There should never be a restriction to voting if you are eligable to do so. Anyone caught trying to limit someones right to vote should be tried in a court of law, the accusation should be levied and the accused allowed to defend themselves.

    I went to my local BOE two weeks ago and ensured that both my wife and I were eligable because we had sent in change of address forms earlier in the year. So alot of the following is hooie...
    So the registrar's were 10 times more prejudice in favor of the asians, arabs, mexicans, cubans, jews, and american indians, than the blacks. The real point is an indictment of the education system than the registrars.
    The registrar is there to ensure accuracy in registration. It is that persons JOB to reject or accept applications based on the info provided. Have you ever mailed in something that hasn't gotten there? That's why Fedx is a multi-billion dollar corp.
    We must all take responsibility to ensure that we press the right button, fill out the card correctly (or get help doing so), find our polling station.
    There were entire messes all over the country on election day, judges were closing and keeping open voting stations in different jurisdictions, it was a mess. VOTE early if you can, Vote often if your from chicago.
    In my part of the country we can begin voting Oct 8th, to ensure that everyone has an opportunity. If you are waiting for the government to make sure you are spoon feed your daily information you will go hungry for it.
    NO ONE SHOULD ILLEGITAMATELY BE BARRED FROM VOTING.

    BTW
    Luckily Lockhart/texans4truth/CBS are accurate and "un-impeachable", cause otherwise the kerry campaign would have a double standard.
     
  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #9
    You know, it's considered rude to YELL IN THE FORUMS!
     
  10. slughead macrumors 68030

    slughead

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    Apr 28, 2004
    #10
    My opinion of florida '00 is that it was all a result of election law and policy that was foolish and ill-planned. Democrats complained that "oh the recount showed this and Bush lost and thus he didn't win".. well I actually agree with the Republicans on this one: You can't change the rules after the game is over. The courts decided the rules were stupid yet they were what they were. Any deviation of the rules would be the ultimate F-U to the democratic process.

    Yes, Republicans may have intentionally done some "bad" things, but maybe you should've thought of that BEFORE THE GAME STARTED. Are you sure they cheated? or were they just playing the evil game that BOTH parties set up, and the republicans won.

    I don't really care who won in 2000 anyway (as I am a libertarian), I'm just sick of hearing about all this "waa republicans are playing dirty."

    You republicrats rig the elections with your campaign finance 527 diversion, you rig the debates by keeping 3rd parties out, you take 3rd parties off the ballot in a MOST SADISTIC WAY, and then you complain about THE OTHER GUY pulling dirty tricks? Cry me a river.

    Both parties were playing by the rules THEY BIPARTISANLY WROTE, and the other guy one. Yes, it's not fair, yes it's undemocratic, but NO, no republicrat has the reason to complain, as long as they keep voting republicrat.
     
  11. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #11
    Can you explain, Stubeeef, how you checking on your registration status means that some black folks weren't denied the right to vote four years ago?

    If you're saying that the onus should be on the voter to make sure the state actually accepts their registration...why? Why shouldn't the state notify voters if they have a problem with it? And shouldn't we be concerned that registrars, accidentally or purposely, seem to be losing lots of people's voter registrations?

    And does your definition of non-black really mean Asians, Arabs, Mexicans, Cubans, Jews, and Native Americans? As a white guy whose ancestors hail from Europe, I'm kind of surprised that I'm not included in that non-black category.

    I'm not even gonna address your comments about Lockhart and Texans for Truth (although CBS is fair game right now), because they're not even on-topic.
     
  12. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #12
    Only you are trying to make that link. Checking your reg. is what you do to eliminate the issue of lost or not recieved registration forms, not illiminate thugs.
    Why...because it is called personal responsibility. The state will notivy voters if they have a problem with their registration, call the office and ask. Otherwise who should they notify of not being registered, if they don't know about them or their desire to register how in the heck can they notify them...catch 22. Who said we shouldn't be concerned about losing voter registrations? That is another of your assumptions.

    You are included, I felt that most of us knew that, sorry next time I will spell it out better. For those of you that didn't understand that whites are not blacks I would like to make that point now. Whites are not blacks.

    You are right, not for this thread. Moved it to the CBS's & maybe Kerry's legal issue . Thankyou.
     
  13. wwworry macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    #13
    So one is expected to double check every official transaction???

    perhaps through some clerical error there is no record of your property tax payment.
    your house has been put up on the sherriffs sale list.
    why didn't you check??

    perhaps through some clerical error there is no record of your vehical registration renewal.
    your car has been impounded.
    why didn't you check??

    perhaps through some clerical error there is no record of your voter registration.
    you can't vote.
    why didn't you check??

    One naturally assumes if one has been removed from the voting roles one would be informed. This was not the case in Florida in 2000 and even in 2004 they had to sue the state of Florida to find out who had been removed. Once the list was made public it was found to have a lot of inaccuracies.


     
  14. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #14
    It is good that cnn and others were able to copy the list. From reading your link - it read that you were able to check it, just not copy it. It was stupid legislation-no question.
    The best part of the copying of the list is here! . An impartial article, points out republican and democrat violations, some good stories of dumb republicans and dumb dems. So enjoy.

    Yes we should have access, we should all take responsibility to check our status and scream if needed. And maybe we should prosecute those 40,000+ voters who are illegally registering.
     
  15. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #15
    Didn't i here that the new methods of voting in many districts are worse than the chad making punch cards? Anybody got more on that?

    It would seem that since government is so inept at managing elections and data bases, we should have less government, not more inane legislation and buracracy<sp>?
     
  16. wwworry macrumors regular

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    Mar 23, 2002
    #16
    That's like saying because the police can not stop crime we should have less police.
    (The GOP congress is ending the 88,000 federally funded local police program. Maybe their bad logic IS consistent.)

    The point is that Florida had to be sued to release their list. There was no way to check it until they released the list. It also shows a continued pattern of trying to decrease voter turnout in minority areas. There is nothing wrong with trying to increase your supporters turnout. There is something wrong with the opposite.

    Here is another good article on the subject:

    POLL POSITION
    by JEFFREY TOOBIN
    Is the Justice Department poised to stop voter fraud—or to keep voters from voting?
     
  17. coconn06 macrumors regular

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    #17
    Sigh. Laws like these are unconstitutional, and we need people in power who are willing to stand up for the Constitution, the document on which our country was based. I think too many lawmakers have never even read it. Their legislation certainly provides a good case for that.
     
  18. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    Aug 10, 2004
    #18
    Notice is given, courts will slow or stop such events, show your proof of payment, yell some, problem fixed.
    Renewal happens every year of two depending on where you live, if you think your car is going to be impounded out of now where by the government, it would appear to me that you too think the government is to big and overpowered.
    If you voted last time and are unable to this time, there has been no change to your status, then you are a victim, either due to a conspiracy or bad programer.

    Would you advocate a comprehensive notification system that gives you information about every aspect of your life, so that you can recalibrate at will? If so just say it. But based on the way governments seem to constantly screw things up, I would advocate less government. The examples you provided for notification were oversimplified. Unless of course you live in a society with lots of government power and fewer individual rights.
     
  19. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #19
    From here

    Is there a mess in our elections, looks like it to me. Is it a right wing conspiracy? Probably about as often as a left wing one, as the ole chicago quote goes "vote early, vote often". There is no legitamacy in this argument along party lines, each is complicant.

    worrier, i found this part of your article particularly interesting
     
  20. coconn06 macrumors regular

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    #20
    Though this is irrelevant to the topic, I'll argue that your metaphor is poor; you can't prove that the number of police correlates to the amount of crime. There are many other factors that more significantly influence crime. Read what Michael Badnarik has to say about this..
     
  21. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #21
    Maybe. But it certainly seemed that you were linking these paragraphs.

    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the rest. I think the responsibility is upon the registrars to do their job competently and legally. Heck, every time I mail somebody a letter, I don't have to call them by phone to make sure they got the letter. I expect my post office to handle it competently, without losing it or throwing it away. And I sure don't expect a postal employee to inform me that if I show up at the post office and have unpaid parking tickets, I could be arrested.
     
  22. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #22
    stubeef, it appears that you would like discrimination that could benefit the RNC in the elections. We are not talking about the Chicago method of voting. But one that based on the partisan personnel that allows for eligible voters to to vote.

    I do not see you asking for voter registration to be tied to a local id system. Not that such an id system is against everything that our country is founded upon. What I sense, and please correct me if I am wrong, is one of discrimination that supports your party.

    Registrations of minorities may be looked upon as supporting one party or another. In reality, once one enters the voting booth - all gloves are off. Are you so afraid of the system?
     
  23. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #23
    I don't know how you arrived there.
     
  24. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #24
    From what appears to be support for discrimination based on a variety of factors. Both legal and questionable.
     
  25. wwworry macrumors regular

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    Mar 23, 2002
    #25
    no he does not support discrimination but he also will try to change the subject when it comes to taking a stand against voter discrimination.

    It's the voters fault because they did not double check that their registration was good.

    The dems are trying to get Nader off the ballot.

    etc.

    same ol' same ol'
     

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