Is Microsoft going to kill Design?

Discussion in 'Design and Graphics' started by whattheduece, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    #1
    Hello everybody, Long time viewer first time poster :) ...

    With Microsoft releasing Microsoft Expression Graphic Designer what do you think will happen to the market? I know several marketing managers today that feel when their secretary/assistant "turns on" Photoshop that she is a designer. I find this a common thought especially from many new "designers". People think that since they can turn on a program an, use some of the tools that they are designers. I mean you can't find an actual design forum where the majority of the conversations are about actual design process/skills they all seem over run with "photoshop question".

    Do you think that with Microsoft's new programs it will damage the name and integrity of designers beyond the point that Adobe already has? (Don't get me wrong I love the Adobe Programs that I use, I just believe that design is more than the mastery of the programs we use) Will we see a new set of "designers" who think they know design, but rather just know a program like so many of todays "Adobe-designer"?

    Just wondering what your thoughts are?
     
  2. Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #2
    Welcome to (posting in) MR. :)

    When I start seeing job ads looking for designers proficient in Microsoft apps, that's when I'll start to get worried. ;)

    Know what you mean about skills though. Yesterday, we received some truly atrocious press ads done by a so-called designer. Multi-coloured Arial running across jaggy JPGs, no bleed, RGB... 72ppi. Truly horrific.

    Think there's a backlash happening though. Competition for junior places is tough... mid/senior-weight people can afford to be picky about who they choose and technical proficiency is certainly an area that we would scrutinise very closely.

    At interview, portfolios don't mean much. I don't know what constraints — time or resources — you produced that under. The time-limited test reveals far more.

    Coming back to these MS apps, think they're just a revamped MS Publisher type-thing anyway. Haven't looked into them in great detail but would be surprised if they could even work with spot colours.
     
  3. macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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    #3
    I am sure when/if, please not just IF, Adobe integrates FLASH into photoshop and its other programs....that NO one could stand in Adobe's way.

    Why did they buy Macromedia, and do nothing with it?

    Flash + Illustrator + Photoshop = one helluva creative suite
     
  4. macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #4
    If it brings something new to the table, and if it's any good then designers will use it.

    If it doesn't, and it's not, then we won't.
     
  5. ATD
    macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    It will take more than a good set of apps, designers will need a reason to change their workflow. Putting Microsoft on the package is not a reason for myself and most designers I know to change. I'm sure that a few of secretaries/assistants that are now doing power points might start using it but I can't see it taking over the design field. Photoshop challenged the Paintbox many years ago and took it's business away. The reason for that was pretty solid considering the Paintbox was selling for $750,000.00 at the time. CS is a solid product at a good price, the only reason it lose business to Microsoft Expression Graphic Designer is out of pure ignorance.


    Welcome to MR.


     
  6. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
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    #6
    Seeing as how well Frontpage fared against Dreamweaver, I don't think Adobe has anything to worry about. Microsoft doesn't understand how to design software that "gets out of the way" and lets you work. MS software is more about hand-holding which no designer in his right mind could stand more than 5 minutes.

    Microsoft doesn't control design/graphics thankfully, and its a VERY entrenched market where they don't have any software in use. Adobe has most of the apps and Apple still owns the hardware/desktop.

    Just my 2¢.
     
  7. thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    #7
    I'm not implying that Microsoft's programs will kill Adobe's programs. What I'm saying is with everybody having access to these supposed "Designer" programs, that you'll see more people saying "I'm a designer" the way many do with Adobe's programs already, thus lowering the value of true designers. I know that among designers we'll be able to tell the difference, but to everyone else I feel will not put much stock into it, as they'll think everyone and their dog can do it.
     
  8. Guest

    shecky

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    #8
    it raises the value of real professional designers doing real professional design because it makes the public as a whole more aware of design, and will also lead to the public as a whole putting more value on good design.

    as i have said before on this forum, someone making logos for their mom's friend's local knitting business is not competition, even remotely, for the true creative professional. (no offense to anyone's mom, anyone's mom's friend, or knitting in general intended)

    software proficiency is the least important arrow in a real designer's quiver, unfortunately it is often the only arrow in the hack designer's quiver.
     
  9. macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    Ask any person working at a printing house or newspaper what one word that can make them cringe when coming from a clients mouth and chances are you will hear the word "Publisher." Microsoft has already tried, miserably, to get into the graphics business. Unfortunately they also bundled Publisher with the professional version of Office. So every mom and pop business out there that gets Office gets publisher and now all of a sudden they are graphic designers. Of course even worse than publisher is Microsoft Word. When people try to do graphic design in Word, you know there is a problem. The really sad part is that it can take hours to try to do graphic design in Word. I get ads done in Word at the paper I work at where I have no idea how they even made the file (and they probably don't either). Of course I just save it to a txt file then set it in Quark...

    Microsoft's general philosphy does not work for graphics. They try to make all their software so anyone can use it. Except the problem is that not everyone can actually succesfully do graphic design. Try explaining trapping or bleed or even kerning to your average Office user and you will get dumb stares. Microsoft should just stick to what it does best, making a virus-ridden, operating system that crashes all the time.
     
  10. macrumors 68040

    dornoforpyros

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    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    #10
    the short answer, no

    tools don't make the artist and although some people do see design as something that any monkey with a mouse & a keyboard can do, there will always be business & clients that are willing to pay for good work.

    There will always be that small percentage of business that are fine with letting their secretary/nephew/intern/whatever do everything with basic desktop publishing programs. But really, those business aren't spending enough on advertising materials to make it hurt any professionals anyways.
     
  11. macrumors 6502

    macdon401

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    #11
    "Everyone wants to Direct" and with the flood of cheap DV cams, everyone is,
    usually kids with no talent, new Dad's with ugly little kids and wanna be porn stars ...and the result is usually very bad, just go to YouTube, my point is, Apple produces Pages, which is well put together, but Quark and InDesign are safe, Microsoft will just be another really poorly designed piece of software from Redmond that will appeal to the masses with no talent.
    R
     
  12. macrumors 68000

    chaosbunny

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    #12
    I do not think that there is any danger to established agencies/professionals. Their clients are usually more or less huge enterprises who need and know the structures and quality of an agency.

    But more easy to use for everybody apps could harm young small independent freelancers like myself. I often have to deal with clients who tell me why they should pay me 300-500 € for a folder when their friend/nephew/whatever does it for 50 €. Sometimes I manage to succeed in telling them I went 2 years to a graphic design college for a reason, show them my work and explain them the quality with simple examples. For many people a folder is a folder, if they don't have anything to do with design it is only natural that they do not see any difference in the first place. I then use comparisons like:

    "ok, I can sell you a car, one for 500 and one for 50000, which one will you take? Ok, one is a new mercedes and the other one is a rusty pile of junk that will fall apart after 6 months, but both are cars. You want to represent your company with a mercedes or a junk pile?"

    It often works, but not always, and more competition from people who just know how to start 2 programmes and apply some filters could mean more talking and less designing for me.
     
  13. macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #13
    @whattheduece

    "I just believe that design is more than the mastery of the programs we use..."


    To be clear, mastery of a program has nothing at all to do with design skills. A designer with no digital skills can present a highly finished design to someone proficient with a graphic program and the two together will produce a finished digital artwork.

    The problem you are presenting is similar to how with the advent of dtp suddenly the arcane skills of the typographer were overlooked by the masses as everyone with a computer and a drop shadow typface, became their own typographer.

    Designers will never use microsoft products in significant numbers because by definition they are sensitive souls and would not brook the ugly world of micro and soft.
     
  14. thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    #14
    This is exactly what I'm saying. With this new offering by Microsoft and the slew of other DTP programs do you think it will weaken the "name" of true designers. I know agencies will always have their big name clients but what about the "Freelancer" ( I hate that term). Like choasbunny put it with the car analogy (which I like mind if I use that from time to time, chaosbunny?) If every new car came out with the Porsche name attached to it don't you think that would kill the real Porsche brand?
     
  15. macrumors 68040

    CrackedButter

    Joined:
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    #15
    Microsoft won't kill design, the masses Microsoft will sell to will kill design ... for themselves and once they do, the professionals will happily chug along and be greatly appreciated for it.

    I haven't noticed anybody ask the same question of Apple's consumer level software like Keynote, iWeb, features in iPhoto or iWork. Seems we have faith in Apple's offerings.
     
  16. macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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    #16
    just gonna make the real designers alot easier to spot.

    id ignore a resume that included anything but Windows and Office as programs they are familiar with that Microsoft produces.

    if you see M$ in place of Adobe, you know you aint got the job.

    :rolleyes:
     
  17. macrumors 6502a

    zero2dash

    Joined:
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    Fenton, MO
    #17
    The words 'Microsoft' and 'Design' don't belong in the same sentence.

    Anyone who uses any Microsoft application and claims to be a Graphic Designer needs a firm talking to. As for it being a problem in the industry or causing trouble for a 'regular' designer (ie an Adobe or Quark person), like the old saying goes "the cream always rises to the top". I'd love to see the look on the face of a self-appointed (Microsoft) 'designer' being told to do an InDesign layout when all they're used to is Publisher.

    I've seen documents done by an obvious Microsoft designer before. You see them coming a mile away. "I've got a business card I need you to print. Here's a cd with the file." -What type of file is it and what version?- "Oh, it's an Excel file."

    Yes I'm serious. I've seen business cards and resumes done in Excel. /snicker
     
  18. macrumors 6502a

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    Los Angeles
    #18

    Thank you I always needed to tell people that when I have similar situations.

    Like this DVD of a Wedding I have to reauthor, the person told me well it was free with photo package. Just because something is free or cheap doesnt mean its nice.
     
  19. macrumors 65816

    deputy_doofy

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2002
    #19
    Sort of on topic....

    In this instance, MS won't kill design any more than Apple killed musicians with Garageband. Hell, I've put together well over 100 "tunes" with pre-made (and ripped sounds) loops. I'm, by far, NOT a musician and would never get paid as one.
     
  20. macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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    #20
    but you could make almost any "trendy" MTV show or commercial.

    I hear Apple Loops ALL day.
     
  21. macrumors 65816

    deputy_doofy

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    #21
    Yes, me too. Comcast is quite guilty. :D
     
  22. macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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  23. ATD
    macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    I have to agree with the others here that are saying it's going to make real designers stand out more. I took a look at the product page, all I saw was just a big bag of tricks/effects, another hollow product with a shiny surface. Just another MS attempt to jump into a market that they have no understanding of. It will only deepen the divide between problem solving design vs push button/make pretty crap.


     
  24. macrumors 601

    dpaanlka

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    Nov 16, 2004
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    #24
    While alarming, Microsoft's past design apps never met with much industry fanfare.

    What professional have you ever met that actually uses Microsoft Publisher, or Microsoft FrontPage?

    They were always the butt of jokes (especially FrontPage), and I'm sure this will be too.
     
  25. macrumors 68000

    chaosbunny

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    #25
    You're welcome.:)

    Works not only with cars but with pretty much everything. If I happen to know what the client is interested in than I use that for comparison, huge bonus!:D
     

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