Is protecting from terrorism worth it?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Eraserhead, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    UK
    #1
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/06/cost-benefit-analysis-and-state-secrecy

    I frankly really strongly agree with this - all this extra surveillance is expensive and not worth giving up our freedoms for.
     
  2. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    #2
    A good question.

    Since 1999 how many Americans have been killed by terrorism? (Answer, approximately 3000). How many have been killed by gun violence? 364,000.

    [​IMG]

    So, even including the worst ever terrorist incident in US history, its still pretty clear that guns are a hundred times more likely to kill us than terrorists.
     
  3. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

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    Mar 22, 2010
    #3
    The Economist is off by ~27,000 on that one.

    But it is a difficult question. We obviously do trade off security for freedom in a number of ways. So IMO, it's a question of degree, results and unintended consequences.

    Take our current NSA issue. It would clearly be a bad program if we had a number of people scooped up in the process who never had done anything except use the words 'bomb' in an email or phone call.

    So I'll start with that premise: security measures become questionable when they tangibly compromise the lives of innocent people.
     
  4. macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #4
    The War on Terror is just like another failed war, the War on Drugs. As usual, our priorities are ****ed up.


    Toddlers Killed More Americans Than Terrorists Did This Year

     
  5. macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #5
    All these terror attacks that were supposedly stopped yet it did nothing to stop the Boston bombing.
     
  6. macrumors P6

    Peace

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    #6
    ^^THIS^^

    Congress is blind..And I'm starting to think citizens are too.
     
  7. macrumors 68020

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    California
    #7
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
     
  8. macrumors 603

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    #8
    Exactly. You're never going to stop the ones who are completely set on causing terror. They will find a way.


    I'll now sit here and wait for a gun nut to take that sentence and try to twist it into a reason why we shouldn't have any firearm regulations. :p;)
     
  9. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

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    #9
    What?!!!

    Where did you ever get that idea?

    :confused:


    Ah yes. Yet another misuse of that quote.

    If you're interested in learning why it shouldn't be thrown around so casually, please read this article, What Ben Franklin Really Said.
     
  10. macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #10
    It may be a good idea to sort out what "terrorism" is,it seems to me those countries taking away their citizens freedoms are the very same countries carrying out the vast majority of the "terrorism".
     
  11. macrumors 68020

    Mac'nCheese

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    #11
    Yeah but many things stop SOME bad from happening. It's like saying someone died in a car crash while wearing their seatbelt so no one has to. After all, all those people seatbelts supposedly saved yet they did nothing to save Peter. Peter, of course, being the guy who died in the car crash while wearing his seat belt. In case anyone was confused....
     
  12. macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #12
    You're worrying me, dude. This sounds eerily similar to what Palin said the other day.
     
  13. macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #13
    Indeed, the number killed by state terrorism in any given year dwarfs the "designated" terrorists' toll.
     
  14. rovex, Jun 19, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2013

    macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Of course it bloody isn't!

    I don't even think the west is protecting anyone from terrorism, but encouraging it with close allies like qatar and saudi arabia that preach takfiri ideology, never mind the funding of jihadists to do the west's dirty work. (syria,libya):

    http://youtu.be/7VGqd_GHtLE

    Transnational Terrorism is just a fig leaf for economic and political imperialism.
     
  15. macrumors 6502

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    #15
    There are no real terrorists; they're all fabricated by the U.S. Government as an excuse to put surveillance systems in place to spy on U.S. citizens.
     
  16. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

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    #16
    Does terrorism exist outside the borders of the U.S.?
     
  17. macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #17

    Oy vey, not this again :rolleyes:
     
  18. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

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    #18
    The thread has great potential to be an interesting a discussion.

    I look forward to that happening.
     
  19. macrumors 68000

    VulchR

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    #19
    The 9/11 terrorist attacked a country with >252,000,000 people and killed slightly over 3000 people. That's about 0.001% of the US population. Yet the government seems to be intent in collecting information from all of us - no doubt a great expense, with the possibility of abuse of power, and perhaps even creating a security threat by maintaining a database of everyone's online activity that might get hacked.

    I realize that the 9/11 attacks 'raised the bar' of terrorist atrocities, and that the intelligence and crime-fighting communities have been thwarting attacks. However, the moment we change core values regarding liberty is the moment the terrorists have won.
     
  20. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

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    #20
    You need to look beyond the body count.

    According to the NY Times, 9/11 costs total about $3.3 trillion dollars.

     
  21. macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #21
    The reason we were attacked on 9/11 was because out intelligence failed, not because there wasn't data on every American. Had the FBI and CIA done their jobs properly we would not have been attacked.
     
  22. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

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    Mar 22, 2010
    #22
    So you are arguing for some degree of protection ... for some degree of intelligence.

    Good. So am I.
     
  23. macrumors 6502a

    ohbrilliance

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    #23
    Jon Stewart said it best:

    "It seems to me we'll move heaven and earth to do whatever it takes to prevent weapons from falling into the hands of foreigners who might kill our citizens. Because apparently we think killing our citizens is our job."
     
  24. macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #24
    I am saying there is no need to spy on innocent people to collect data on bad guys.
     
  25. macrumors 68000

    Happybunny

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    's-Hertogenbosch Netherlands
    #25
    The problem with tackling terrorism is You have to be lucky every time, they only have to be lucky once.

    9/11 changed for ever how the US lives, and not for the better.
     

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