Israeli airstrikes in Syria

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Sayhey, Oct 5, 2003.

  1. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #1
    From the BBC:
    This attack combined with the recent decision to extend the wall into more parts of the West Bank has raised the tensions even higher in the region, already at a crisis point due to the continued suicide bombings and Isreali strikes in the occupied territories.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3166388.stm
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #2
    looks like bush's pre-emptive strike doctrine has won some followers.
     
  3. Sayhey thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #3
    I'm afraid the invasion of Iraq and Bush's policy has given cover for the Israelis to do things that would not have been thinkable a year ago. The region is a powderkeg and the Israelis are playing with matches.
     
  4. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #4
    Well, the same answer exists now as it did 55 years ago: Arabs oughta quit killing Jews. They particularly oughta quit killing Israeli Jews, 'cause they kill back.

    But the Arabs don't want peace in the old Trans Jordan. What they want now is what they've always wanted: No Israel; all Jews dead.

    'Rat
     
  5. Sayhey thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #5
    'Rat, if we are to look at this in the terms of Arabs and Jews it will never be solved. One could have just as easily have made the same statement as you did and reversed the placement of the words "Arabs" and "Jews" with some justification. It is only when the rights of all the people of the region are dealt with that the killing has a hope of stopping.

    The point of the thread, however, is not to get caught up in the history of the Israeli - Palestinian dispute, but to look to the danger of the expansion of that dispute into Syria.
     
  6. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #6
    it can't be that black and white

    some arabs may paint a bad image by being violent and waging war and some people in america then think that's what arabs are about...to kill jews or destroy or take back israel

    the situation with the arab-israeli conflict today is very different than world war II when hitler tried to exterminate the jews
     
  7. K4NN4B15 macrumors member

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    #7
    This is exactly why there is no answer. Because yes, Arabs should quit killing Isrealites. But then again, Isrealites should stop killing Arabs. Its just a viscious circle and anyone can justify anything. No one really sees the big picture.
     
  8. Sayhey thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #8
    It was never that black and white. There are forces within Israeli and Palestinian societies that want a peaceful settlement. There are also forces in both societies that view the other as less than human and of deserving no rights. Right now that hatred is in danger of spilling over into more countries in the region. Some wiser heads must prevail and unfortunately, Bush has placed himself outside the role of "honest broker" with his statements around Syria. This has continued even in the discussions at the Security Council. Now what happens if the Syrians use their right to self-defense and strike back?
     
  9. Inu macrumors newbie

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    #9
    Well. Syria cant strike back. It would be like US vs Iraq technology wise. As a matter of Fact, it would be EXACTLY like that. And we all know how thats going to look like.

    On the other hand, they cant go to the UN with their complain. Hm. Let me correct this: they can go to the UN with this. The UN would put together a resolution to look at Israel in a funny way - and the USA would veto it out. Nice.

    And you guys renamed french fries because someone had the guts to veto against a premature (and, as it turns out, unjust) war.
     
  10. abdul macrumors member

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    #10
    from last forum i thought you made some good point....but in this one your talking a whole lot of ****. First of all can you let me know how Jews got to morrocco?

    ill let you know cos the Jews were treated with respect ever since Islam came and were welcome to travel within their empire. In recent history the opposite the palestinians are humiliated and not even given basic huma rights.

    Secondly how many Saudis have killed Israeli jews? How many Egyptians habe killed Israeli Jews and How many Turkish people have killed Israeli jews. Heck how many syrains have killed Israeli jews in the last 20years. the point im trying to make is not all arabs are palestinians and not all arabs even share a border with Israel and some arab countries e.g Turkey (yes it is an arab country cos their ethinic group it Arab....ottomon empire= arab empire) even have very friendly relations with israle.

    All Jews dead.....remember the Jews lived within Arab controlled society for over 500 years. Is Arabs wanted you all dead im sure they would have killed all Jews off in that region by now off by now. (sorry they are mostly immigrants from the rest of the world arent they...sos my misytake),...but like i have said Jews were treated good...as equals under the Khalifah.

    The Israel you talk about with such passion contains so many parts of occupied land which even the Israelis have admitted, and should give back under the UN is the US doesnt stop veto any resolution against Israel! Not just the occupied Palestinians terroitories but parts of Syria as well.

    secondly, please dont refer to all of them as 'Arabs'. It is mostly Palestinians Israel has a problem with as they took their land and left them as regufees in the land where their forefathers were even before Judaism was around. If you are talking about countries who greatly disagree with the actions of Israel as Arabs then i thin you should include Europe and Russia under that heading as well.

    Arabs oughta quit killing Jews

    Forgive me if im wrong...and im never wrong. But didnt all the Palestinian organisations agree to a ceasefire. Within the first week of the ceasefire ISRAEL decided to attack one of the people at the top of one the Palestinian organisations.......Was that stupid or pure and utterly stupid! so your comment can be reversed to:
    Jews oughta quit killing Palestinians, 'cause they kill back.

    oisrale had a chance of peace there but they killed it. The bus blast was tragic but a revenge attack was proimised after the israeli killing.

    It is said that people who are obviously educated cannot see the facts and are blinded by nationality. Hey another day in the US!

    Ill just ley you know what i expect, i expect you to make stupid insults cos you lost the discussion, but thats waht i always get....it makes me feels good knowing i just totally threw someones view out the window and they have to result in insults .....ie mac______
     
  11. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #11
    I have no idea why the creation of Israel in 1948 caught my imagination the way it did. Back then, 14-year-olds just weren't all that much interested in politics. Regardless, I've watched the situation there with interest, over the years.

    What I orignally posted reflects my observations.

    One problem with decrying violence is that (IMO) all too many regard retaliation as the same as initiation. I don't.

    Sure, not ALL Arabs support genocide. Trouble is, most of the Arab countries are ruled by people who have openly supported the violence against Israel on the terrorist level, as well as having invaded it twice with military force.

    Lebanon, controlled by Syria, has always been a sort of haven for anti-Israel murderers. Syria's Golan Heights were long used as a place from which to use rockets and artillery against Israeli villages. Iran has furnished money and training for anti-Israeli efforts; Saudi Arabia has long been a money-source for those against Israel.

    What chance does a peace-loving Arab have to influence his government's policies? Vote?

    Lord knows that the average Palestinian wants nothing more than to live in peace; to have a job with decent pay and a decent home and a hope for a decent future for himself and his kids. To me, that's universal. I have no quarrel with the "Joe Sixpack" of the Arab world...

    'Rat
     
  12. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #12
    Ok, if that is the point of the thread, then what else is Israel supposed to do? Continue to let the terrorists that train in Syria come into Israel and kill their civilians?

    Sometimes, sadly, it is kill, or be killed. That is the case here. If they train in Syria, and they come into Israel, and kill civilians, and children, etc. Does Israel not have a soverign right to defend itself, reguardless of borders?
     
  13. Inu macrumors newbie

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    #13
    Oh please. Is it ok to fly into a souvereign nation and bomb some facilities you claim to train terrorists? What the hell happened to proper politics?

    Israel already has the most restrictive border controls (for pete's sake, they are rebuilding the berlin wall!). Thats the way you go and protect your civillians, not by bombing some camp you suspect of training terrorists (what if they trained their own military there and intelligence was faulty (i know, it never is, despite the facts prooving otherwise))
     
  14. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #14
    hey desertrat,

    i too support israel...my wife is half jewish and we just came back from a bar mitzvah and one of the guests came back all the way from israel...when we got a chance to talk, she told us how most israelis want an end to violence and they think that PM sharon is just as bad as the terrorists playing tit for tat

    the jews lived side by side with the arabs for many years, hundreds in fact, so peace is not impossible but it cannot be achieved through military force...the israeli army should not play the role of schoolyard bully

    through my time serving our government in clandestine service and the defense department and my father's time in the OSS, we both came to the conclusion that israel has the best kick butt forces and intelligence, per person, than any military in the world and that because of that, they have to watch out for the tempation to misuse that superiority in resources, both human and equipment wise
     
  15. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #15
    Sorry, but I have to say that if their intel says that it is a training camp, them more than likely it is. They have the right to defend themselves, and that is all that this is.
     
  16. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #16
    You have a lot more faith in "intel" than a lot of people. Would you estimate this intelligence to be as good as, say, that which led the US to invade Iraq?

    Also, that is not "all that this is". This threatens to escalate the middle east conflict to new heights, possibly leading to a war with Syria.
     
  17. raschild macrumors member

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    #17
    The only way the Syrians would have a right to self-defense is if Israel had attacked Syria--but they didn't. They attacked a military target within Syria's borders (terrorist training camp). If Syria had taken it out like they were asked to, Israel wouldn't have had anything to attack inside Syria, and Israel would have looked elsewhere for targets. Nations in that region need to take responsibility and do everything in their power to shut down the terror groups, like Hamas, to prevent Israel from having cause to attack outside its own borders.

    'Rat is right about Palestinians/Arabs not liking Israelis. I think the feeling is mutual. I don't think the region will see lasting peace until one of the groups is eliminated.
     
  18. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #18
    That's quite a statement. Which group do you think most merits "elimination" and why, and do you think this is likely.
     
  19. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #19
    all i can say its amazing the restraint israel has shown,from the first gulf war till now. with these attacks coming from the countless terror groups i would be wiping them out big time! not a little strike on a camp. I wonder how long it will take them to take out the IRAN nuclear bomb plants??? they are the only ones with the balls to go after these guys meanwhile countries like syria are portrayed in the UN like the good guys when the truth is they are a terrorist state sponsering,funding,harboring,training etc terrorist to go into israel and blow themselves up. I would bet Saddam and his WMD's are in there somewhere.
     
  20. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #20
    an extreme example, but does it follow that you support north korea's right to nuke DC?
     
  21. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #21
    dont change subject, this is about terrorist blowing themselves in israel and working out of syria.
     
  22. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #22
    now _that's_ a change is subject!
     
  23. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #23
    That has nothing to do with this!
     
  24. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #24
    I remember my startlement the first time I learned of the tiny physical size of Israel. Not much over 100 miles, the long way; at it's narrowest, ten miles. Why would anybody blame Israel for wanting to keep the land they got by repelling the 1967 invasion? Heck, it made the country almost 25 or 30 miles wide!

    They earned that land in blood, and now people redefine it as the "occupied territories". PC at its slimiest, sez I.

    Anybody who thinks the Israelis haven't been gentle with their Arab neighbors must not realize that had the Israelis wished, they could have taken Cairo and Damascus. There was nothing left to stop them. (Obviously, occupation would have been an insurmountable problem.)

    I watched Abba Eban's comment at the UN, when the various losers were whining. I loved his, "There are three million Jews. There are 200 million Arabs. Is the distinguished delegate from Egypt trying to say we surrounded them?"

    It took the failed invasion of 1973 to get the slow-learning Arab political leaderships to figure out that they had no hope by killing all the Israelis by "honest warfare". So, the next step was to help create and support such groups as Hamas, as well as support Arafat and his PLO.

    The Arabs know no restrictions as to time and space for their own survival. They can try various methods to finalize the efforts at their publicly called-for genocide.

    The Israelis, in losing just one battle, are done. Gone. Dead.

    It's all well and good to talk of national sovereignty--until your own life or death depends on how you deal with murderers who would use that national sovereignty for their own ends.

    'Rat
     
  25. Sayhey thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #25
    Sometimes, it is hard to hear all of the venom directed at "Arabs." Excuse me, but I think it is incredibly ignorant to value the life of one person over the other because of their nationality. I believe the act of hatred and the desperation of the young woman who walked into that Haifa restaurant and blew herself up and killed all those innocent people was horrible and despicable. The bombing of apartments in the Gaza, the shooting of teenage kids on the West Bank, and the denial of an entire population of their basic rights is also horrible and despicable. The one sided nonsense in response to these acts only helps to feed them.

    What is new and dangerous is the attack of Israeli jets into Syria. That action has ramifications for the entire region. The Arab League is meeting now as well as the UN. Do you think this will strengthen the hands of those in the region that wish to have good relations with the US? What happens if Israel's adoption of the US foreign policy includes more and greater attacks? Is the US going to use the presence of offices of groups they don't like as pretext to take the War in Iraq into Syria? If nothing else, this action and the US support of it through a UN veto would only confirm in every Arab State that the US has no real interest in Arab grievances. We will win lots of friends in Iraq with this policy.
     

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