It's lonely at the top...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by xsedrinam, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #1
    ...unless you take someone with you. Gonzales faces calls for resignation, cancels trip.

    Does anyone have an accurate count on the number of former members of this administration who have abandoned ship or had to walk the plank? The creaking sounds of corruption can heard, it seems, everywhere.

    Will integrity and accountability be a front running issue in the next U.S. Presidential campaign. I hope.
     

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  2. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #2
    I hope you're not under the illusion that the other party is any better in this regard.
     
  3. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #3
    Actually, almost any other party is better than republicans in that regard.
     
  4. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #4
    Why are you polarizing this issue? This is about deep seated corruption within the justice dept. and the WH.

    Gonzalez is a slime ball and he needs to go.
     
  5. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #5
    Ok, tell the truth now. Did you make this same argument in 2000 when conservatives were talking about how they would be so much more moral than the previous WH inhabitants? Be honest...
     
  6. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    Gonzo is suppose to be a representitive of the law, instead we have another political spinmaster from the administration of lies and spin. I love his description of Gang members who have robbed and even killed people, he calls these killers simply people who have made bad decisions or a spell of bad luck. As Attorney general he is suppose to uphold law, look at what he has done with borders and illegals. nothing. He a political stooge nothing more. The whole administration needs a boot along with their entire party it seems.
     
  7. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #7
    glad to see gonzalez is "taking full responsibility", by doing anything but. also nice to see he's playing the race card.
     
  8. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #8
    Actually, I'm a libertarian and I haven't been happy with either party on this subject. I just think it's funny that anyone believes that either side has a monopoly on integrity in politics.
     
  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #9
    Hmm... interesting non-answer.

    I suppose I could say the same thing, not being a Democrat and all. I've long believed that neither major party has a monopoly on integrity. Of course it's implicit in your statement that you think I think one side does...
     
  10. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #10
    Of you're not a democrat, then what are you?
     
  11. xsedrinam thread starter macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #11
    Why would speaking out against corruption and the present administration's lack of integrity while calling for integrity and accountability in future elections pigeonhole anyone in to a particular party? :confused: I don't see where the assumption is justified.
     
  12. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #12
    Then why have you defended conservatives while attacking liberals for lesser offenses? I mean, it's one thing to attack Dems (we all do that sometimes), but just because they're bad sometimes doesn't make the Republicans right. Especially when they're the ones in charge, they're the ones screwing up, and lately, the ones who have been far more corrupt.

    For the record, it's not so much that the Dems are all good, it's just that, as a whole, they aren't as terrible as the current neocon crop.

    Because anyone who criticizes the Republican (though not actually that conservative) President is a hippy, commie, liberal, atheist who hates freedom. Unlike criticizing a Democrat President, which is patriotic. Especially long after he's out of office to distract from the crimes of the current gov. When we criticize liberals, which we do on a regular basis when we want to support them but they make their side look bad and we believe we should hold them accountable for actual things they've done, we're just turning on our own because we have no loyalty. Which will be overlooked when a neocon does something bad, and we're all (even real independents) lumped back in as hating the Republicans for no reason, and then when someone points out that a Democrat once did something almost as bad, it's either ignored because it wasn't really that bad or and issue at all, except for some reason it is, or we all point out that we actually did criticize something if it was a valid complaint, which is then ignored because we all love that troop hating John Kerry or that hypocrite enviro-nut case Al Gore and will defend them no matter what. Even when we don't.

    So, to answer your question, I don't know.
     
  13. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #13
    This Gonzales thing doesn't even have to do with the two issues the original poster claimed though. Not to mention that all it takes is a Republican to leave the toilet set up anymore for someone to call for his resignation. Calls for resignation have lost all their meaning anymore because of overuse.

    Didn't Clinton fire all the attorneys when he came on board? Was a reason given? Did anyone care?

    I'm not saying Gonzales is right or wrong. I have no idea why attorneys were let go or why they wanted to get rid of all of them. To use this as an example of lack of integrity crossed the line in my book which is why I'm defending the administration on this particular point.
     
  14. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #14
    It's SOP for the US attorneys to serve until the end of a president's term. They are political appointees and have no expectation of a job beyond the current administration that hired them. If they next administration sees fit to keep them, great, if not it's not a big deal. It's not even a big deal to fire them (for good reason) and appoint new ones in the course of a term, however to eliminate 9 at one time for no apparent reason is a bit suspicious.

    As I see it, the bigger story here is the bit that got snuck into the PATRIOT Act renewal that eliminates the mandatory Congressional review/approval of interim attorneys after 120 days and the Judicial oversight of the process. With thest 9 that were removed their "interim" replacements have not Congressional oversight and can serve as long as Bush is in office.
     
  15. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #15
    I don't think its possible for someone to be more corrupt than someone else. You either are or not.
    Now that is a gross generalization.
     
  16. Queso macrumors G4

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    #16
    Ban all political parties and force each politician to represent the people who put them there. Not only would it lead to greater accountability through a greater choice of candidates, it would allow the people to unite against a corrupt government instead of bickering amongst themselves.
     
  17. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #17
    That's what the primaries are for. There's nothing stopping millions of people from voting Green Party, Libertarian, or whatever. I can't remember what the threshold is, but that party and several others could have candidates in the final election. There's been three or more candidates many times.

    Not enough people want to support someone that's not republican or democrat evidently.
     
  18. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    Really? I hear that statement all the time.
     
  19. Queso macrumors G4

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    #19
    Because as demonstrated above, politics in modern democracies has fallen into the pattern of supporting a sports team. If you ban both Republican and Democrat parties (and all others of course), voters will have to consider the personal politics of the candidates they're choosing rather than some blanket Conservative/Liberal label that no longer applies in most cases.
     
  20. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #20
    From whom?
     
  21. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    Yes he did.
    Not that I have been able to find.
    Not really, at least not to the point of generating a congressional investigation.
     
  22. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #22
    Didn't I already point out that US attorneys are political appointees and typically lose their jobs at the beginning of a new president's term much like cabinet posts?

    If Bush canned 9 of his cabinet members and they all cried foul, don't you think there would be an investigation into the firings if the reason was not obvious?

     
  23. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #23
    I am a liberal. I do not adhere to any political party's viewpoint. I like to form my own opinions thanks.
     
  24. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #24
    Like atszyman pointed out, EVERY federal attorney loses their jobs EVERY time a new president comes into office. It is up to the President to then appoint new ones or decide to keep the ones that had served the President before them.

    What's unprecendented about this situation is that they are being fired during the middle of Bush's term, which is something that hasn't happened before, and is a big deal, which is why there is a congressional investigation into the matter, especially since the firings were all politically motivated and not based upon job performance.

    But, way to rush to your "But Clinton did...." defense, obeygiant and Swarmlord. This couldn't have been a thread in the politics forum without one of you doing it.
     
  25. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #25
    I always love that part. As if it's a defense. Hey, newsflash, some of us complained about him too! And will have no problem complaining about the next Dem President, just as we do when there are valid complaints about the current Dems. And of course there are degrees to corruption. Sheer number wise (duh, there were more Repubs than Dems in power in 2005), and actual crime committed wise. Is world really so black and white that forgetting to include something on a report is as bad as directly profiting from a deal that rips of tax payers and/or gets people hurt, or trying to diddle kids?

    But yeah, no one cared when Bush did it at the beginning of his term, or even had he done it in 2005 after being re-elected. He did it after someone made a list of who was more loyal. Some actually had the gall to go after Republicans as well as Dems (some of whom weren't actually guilty of anything, but the administration wanted the prosecutors to start going after the Dem so the GOP would have ammo in the '06 elections). There was a chart I saw someone made about it, but I can't find it now. Almost waiting for someone to use it as proof Dems are more corrupt, ignoring the fact that most of them turned out to be innocent, while some neocons got away with their crimes. And again, the sheer number of Dems vs. Repubs.

    Are you guys just not paying attention? Do you not know what's actually happening here and why? Do you not know the details, and get why people are pissed? Again!?!
     

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