iTunes Fraud..I want my money back

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by jkaz, Oct 24, 2006.

  1. jkaz macrumors 6502

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    #1
    it's been a regular tuesday, get to the office, check emails, take care of the morning routine, take 15 minutes to check out iTunes for some tv to download for later.

    to my delight, i see "most haunted" advertised in a halloween section.

    great show, just started watching it last year.

    navigate to season 1 of "most haunted" and it's for sale!

    season 1 of most haunted for sale for $17.99

    Long story short(too late) I bought it and upon further inspection, this is not season one, it is a hodgepodge of various seasons!
     
  2. Mal macrumors 603

    Mal

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    #2
    Either you didn't read carefully enough and it's your fault, or it was mislabeled and you can contact Apple either for a refund or a redownload of the item you expected to get. I usually assume the first, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and advise you to do that latter. Looking at it though, it lists exactly what episodes are included, so I can't imagine that it's not your fault for not simply looking at the list and deciding if the 10 episodes included were worth your $18.

    Really, it's not that big of a deal.

    jW
     
  3. mdntcallr macrumors 65816

    mdntcallr

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  4. jkaz thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #4
    perhaps i am raising too much of an issue, but here's more of the story.

    prior to purchasing MH, i purchased the season pass to GH(ghost hunters)


    GH pass says for the season pass you are purchasing the currently available episodes from season 3 and will automatically receive the rest of the episodes from season 3 as they become available. Season 3 is the current season.

    As I am fully aware that MH is well past season, but am not familiar with their seasons or episodes contained therewithin, i made the unfortunate assumption that when i clicked on purchase season 1, the most logical events as i see them would have followed being that the actual first season of Most Haunted would have been downloaded.


    Where did i go wrong? I didn't verify the season before clicking purchase?

    I ask you this: Since when does the first season of a television series not mean the first season of a television series?
     
  5. Mal macrumors 603

    Mal

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    #5
    Nowhere do I see anything that would indicate that it was the full season, nor do I see any reason not to simply glance over the episode listing (it is, after all, on the same page where have to be to buy the season) before laying down your money. It's simple common sense. Regardless, Apple will probably give you your money back if you complain, so quite complaining about being defrauded and act like a responsible human being.

    jW
     
  6. jkaz thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #6
    what part of the phrase "Season 1" and "Buy Season" don't lead you to believe that you are about to purchase season 1 of this television show.

    edit: and btw, i've never had to contact customer service for iTunes.
     
  7. AdeFowler macrumors 68020

    AdeFowler

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    #7
    I kind of sympathise with jkaz here. If it does indeed say Season 1, it would be fair to assume it's the entire season. Complain to Apple and get a refund. Remember, always read the small print ;)
     
  8. jkaz thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #8
    Thank you, but the problem here is that there isn't any small print.

    I'm working on compiling the actual season that episodes appear, will edit them into this post most likely.
     
  9. Sayer macrumors 6502a

    Sayer

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    #9
    It looks like this is a "season 1" of how it was shown on US TV. It may be a mix of other *original* season episodes, as the show goes back to 2002 in the UK, but this seems to be the current collection in the US labeled as "season 1."

    All of the shows are listed, and you can watch previews before you buy.

    Complaining that you got a different "season one" than you (falsely) believed, even though you could see exactly what you were getting, and calling it "fraud" is overkill.

    Are you somehow financially harmed by spending $18 for 10 TV shows?
     
  10. AdeFowler macrumors 68020

    AdeFowler

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    #10
    I haven't looked at the item in question but I assumed there was a listing of featured episodes? You're lucky, if only we could buy TV programmes :eek:
     
  11. jkaz thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #11
    here's a listing of the episodes i purchased and where they actually fall in line for the series:

    1. Skirrid Inn- Is actually the 24th Episode of MH aired as the 4th episode of Season 2.
    2. The Clockhouse- 29th episode aired as 9th episode of Season 2.
    3. Galleries of Justice- 44th episode, last episode of Season 3.
    4. Jamaica Inn- 53rd episode, 3rd episode of Season 4.
    5. The Manor House- 59th episode, 6th of Season 4.
    6. Chatham Dockyard- 62nd, 9th of Season 4.
    7. Green Gate Brewery- 64th, 11th of Season 4
    8. Kinnitty Castle- 84th, 1st of Season 5
    9. Annesley Hall- 99th, 13th of Season 5
    10. Ancient Ram Inn- 103, Last of Season 5


    all information taken from: http://www.tv.com/most-haunted/show/22344/summary.html?tag=tabs;summary


    again, what part of the phrase "Season 1" am I supposed to take to mean as anything other than Season 1 of Most Haunted.
     
  12. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #12
    Mmm, so I understand that you are upset. But the iTunes Customer Service team has a good reputation of being supportive with this kind of issue. And the store handles a large, large volume of material.

    So what I'm saying is:

    - If you contacted CS and are waiting for a response, I'm more than happy to empathize with your venting. It is frustrating and it is a nuisance and it's a bad reinforcement for pursuing an avant-garde method of media distribution.

    - If however, you are not willing to contact CS, then you're just whining... you have an option for recourse, and you're not willing to pursue it. That's your issue and yours alone.
     
  13. jkaz thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #13
    thank you for your help, after a chance for a few replies on how to best contact cs, i will delete this thread if i am able.
     
  14. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #14
    Different channels will often package shows in different bunches than as they were aired. If you look at the "Release Date" tag for this show, the episodes originally aired from 9/2005 to 2/2006, i.e. this is not the UK's "Season 1", but "Season 1" as it aired in catch-up mode in the US.

    Another example of repackaging episodes is today's release of "Justice League Unlimited- Season 1" on DVD which actually contains all 26 episodes from Seasons 1 and 2 as they were aired. They could probably have released it as 2 separate 2 dics sets, but they were going for consistency with the earlier "JL" DVD releases. When Season 3 of JLU comes out on DVD, it'll probably be called Season 2.

    B
     
  15. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #15
    No, please don't do that (ask for the thread to be deleted). This is all useful information. Hopefully no one else will get caught by the same thing while they are fixing it. Also please post the ultimate result.

    For what it's worth though, when I've had difficulties I used the e-mail address / form on the Apple website and got great help. In that case, they ultimately couldn't fix the issue and just refunded me (for some reason, there was one purchased song that crashed iTunes consistently, and also another that had some funny static in it that only played on the iPod or something like that). But they were very nice. And if they refund you, you typically get to keep the product. :)
     
  16. JasonElise1983 macrumors 6502a

    JasonElise1983

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    #16
    why is everyone being so hard on this guy? It literally does say "season 1". Sure maybe he should've looked at the episodes, but who actually knows episode names that well, and if it was a show he was barely familiar with, then how would he know they weren't right? 10 Episodes is a good estimate of what most tv shows do their first season. Some do less, some do more, but i wouldn't have thought it to be anything fishy.

    Calling it "fraud" on the other hand is just trying to provoke something. It's not fraud, it's just not exactly what you wanted.

    -JE
     
  17. JasonElise1983 macrumors 6502a

    JasonElise1983

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    #18
    ok #1) kind of messed up cause i took your side,

    #2) as it says in your link "Intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right"

    I was trying to say that fraud was to harsh of a word to use, since i don't think they intentionally perverted the truth to induce you to part with your money. I think it's a misunderstanding/miscommunication, not fraud. Like balamw said, it was probably repackaged.
     
  18. jkaz thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #19
    I find it hard to believe that the selling companies involved in this transaction were not fully aware of what their product was at the time of listing.

    Whoever made the decision to sell this product via iTunes most certainly asked the following questions:

    How many total episodes of this television show?

    How many original seasons has this show spanned?

    (and for you 'repackaged' theorists)

    How many repackaged seasons has there been?

    How many seasons are there that we can sell?


    You have to be incredibly naive to think that the folks at iTunes weren't aware exactly what kind of product they are dealing with.


    edit:

    at any rate, here's another definition for you:

    http://m-w.com/dictionary/negligence
     
  19. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #20
    The show is being offerred in the US by Discovery Networks and currently airs on the Travel Channel.

    Here's the main LivingTV (UK) site: http://www.livingtv.co.uk/mosthaunted/
    Here's the Discovery (US) site: http://travel.discovery.com/fansites/mosthaunted/mosthaunted.html

    The show has been on for one year in the us and you can bet that not all the shows have been aired. http://travel.discovery.com/fansite...s/destinations.html?clik=Most Haunted_leftnav has a dead link for "Click here to read about last season's destinations!" You can bet that the 10 shows you bought were among those aired "last season".

    I'm not privy to the deals that go on between the producers and ths distributors of the show, but this is a great illustration of how hard it can be to deal with TV distribution as each show will generally have its own distributor in each country.

    It's not like iTunes deals directly with the producers of the show, and for all we know Discovery may only have bought the rights to select episodes to air in the US. It's not unprecedented.

    If anyone is guilty of negligence here it's you for not doing your due diligence before making a purchase.

    B
     
  20. jkaz thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #21

    (nice addon, btw)

    So, you are saying that I was negilgent and iTunes was fraudulent.

    I can live with that.

    I guess it was my mistake to let my guard down while purchasing iTunes products.

    At any rate, I'm a huge fan of the show and would like every episode of every season. I hope that iTunes will live up to my fantasy and post these shows for sale.

    And as for this thread, other than the odd constructive post recommending CS as a solution, this thread is really nothing more than a cry-me-a-river session because I have a comment that is dissentful from 100% praise of apple and iTunes.

    I will now request a moderator to close and or delete this thread.

    Thanks :)
     
  21. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #22
    No I don't think there was ever any intent to deceive you. The deal was in black and white. 10 episodes $17.99 or $1.99 each. Episodes were individually named.

    Just ask for your money back and move on.

    EDIT: Oh, and petition Discovery/Travel Channel to make more shows available or just buy the DVDs from the UK. http://www.metrostarshop.co.uk/Merc...OD&Product_Code=VCD0265&Category_Code=mh_dvds

    B
     
  22. jkaz thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #23
    thanks for the link, but i'm region 1.

    and..

    did you even visit the MH shows on iTunes?

    let me quote all text available(other than the tracks)

    MOST HAUNTED, SEASON 1
    Could you lock yourself in a haunted location for 24 hours? Well that's just what the Most Haunted team does. The crew investigates some of the scariest places in Europe and attemtps to communicate with the dead through various methods and experiments -- hoping to prove the existence of life after death.


    Most Haunted, Season 1
    Most Haunted
    Released 2005
    Total: 10 episodes
    ** 2005 Discovery Communications Inc.
    $17.99 BUY SEASON
    Gift This TV Show

    Thanks for the idea to petition Disco Chan.
     
  23. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #24
    I bolded a couple of things in the text you cited.

    What there would make you think that this would be the same as "Series 1" from 2002 on LivingTV? On top of that the episode titles of the 10 episodes were not hidden from you, were they?

    Genuinely :confused:

    The region coding of DVDs is just another facet of this whole mess of international video distribution. DVDs of the same show or movie for different regions can vary widely in transfer quality, editing (i.e. the content may actually be different) extras, etc... You need to do more DD, especially while buying shows across borders.

    EDIT: Extreme cases of this are when a show gets remade for another market like the endless "Big Brother" or "Who wants to be a Millionaire" type shows. You wouldn't expect to buy "Millionaire" fom ABC and get the UK version, would you?

    EDIT 2: Last but not least, the best way to let Discovery Networks know that you like this show and want to see more of it on iTunes in the US is what you already did and regeret. Buy the show.

    B
     
  24. SilentPanda Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

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    #25
    It does say Season 1. It is the U.S. Season 1. This does not match the U.K. Season 1. iTunes wasn't trying to "pull one over" on anybody. It was simply a misunderstanding.

    Just call up the iTunes people and tell them you thought it was season 1 of the U.K. series and see what happens. It probably only confuses people that knew the show aired in the U.K. first... I had no clue and would have been content with what I thought to be Season 1 from the U.S.
     

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