ivy league

Discussion in 'Community' started by jefhatfield, Apr 20, 2004.

  1. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #1
    the eastern ivies are harvard, yale, columbia, princeton, brown, cornell, dartmouth, and univ of pennsylvania...all great institutions

    what 8 would you pick for the west, midwest, and south??

    for the west in order of reputation
    stanford, usc, cal tech, berkeley,
    claremont, pepperdine, ucla, and davis

    for south
    duke, north carolina, emory, universtiy of virginia,
    texas - austin, wake forest, gerogia tech, and virginia military institute

    for midwest
    university of chicago, northwestern, notre dame, michigan,
    university of wisconsin, purdue, oberlin, air force academy

    but since the northeast is chock full of great institutions, darn them, i add:
    MIT, NYU, vassar, johns hopkins,
    georgetown, sarah lawrence college, west point, and annapolis

    ........................

    ...and i could probably add 20 more from the northeast as good as any from the west, midwest, and south...but if i had to pick non ivy schools i think are as good as the eight eastern ivies, i would only pick stanford, usc, university of chicago, MIT, and NYU...and cal tech though they are not as encompassing as the rest in terms of different subjects taught...MIT is technical, too but excel in other non techie fields

    ................................

    note: i added some non private institutions since i think some are very good and one does not have to pay 25k in tuition to get a decent education
     
  2. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

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    #2
    Whoo! quite a list!

    I'd have to dispute that western list, though. Here's my West:

    Stanford, Cal tech, Berkeley, Reed, UCLA, Washington, Oregon, Pomona, USC
     
  3. question fear macrumors 68020

    question fear

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    #3
    there are lots of great "second tier" schools that all the kids who dont go ivy go...
    u of chicago, stanford, uc berkley, ucla, emory, tufts, brandeis (my alma mater), nyu, georgetown, mit, the list goes on and on but im braindead tongiht.

    the thing is, most of these schools are becomnig even more competitve because the ivies are more competitive...its a trickle down.

    the estimate when i graduated brandeis last year was that approxiamately 1/3 of our graduating class would not have been accepted to the incoming freshman class...and that statistic had been continuing for 4 years...so every year it became 1/4-1/3 more competitve.

    and I see it now with my younger brother gearing up to apply to schools (we're six years apart in age); he wants more than anything to go the university of maryland, but its become so much more competitive he's applying to a half dozen other schools. When I was applying to school 7 years ago (wow, i can't believe it was that long) he would have most likely been able to apply with confidence.
     
  4. JesseJames macrumors 6502a

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    How'd I get here? How can I leave?
    #4
    Oh hec, just go to a community college, do well and transfer. There's no shame in that. A LOT of people are doing that.
    Community colleges have come a long way from the image of where the 'losers' go to get a semblance of an education to adults looking for career retraining, or get an extra degree for bachelor and masters degree holders.
    For people whose life situations pervade them from going away to school. These schools make it possible to get ahead.
    As aforementioned, if you do well, there's no reason that you won't transfer to a good school.
     
  5. RBMaraman macrumors 65816

    RBMaraman

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    Prospect, KY
    #5
    Purdue should definitely not be considered an Ivy League midwest school. The quality of its academic programs have dramaticaly decreased over the past several years. Now, it is pretty much a breeding ground for drug addicts.

    Now for schools that are the Ivy League of the midwest:
    Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology (MIT considers them their biggest competition)
    Northwestern
    Loyola-Chicago
    University of Chicago
    University of Evansville (I have to add my school, and we are ranked as one of the best in the midwest).
    Notre Dame
     
  6. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    Jul 9, 2000
    #6
    but i have five of those on my list...stanford and usc, of course, along with cal tech, cal berkeley, and ucla

    i don't know much about washington, oregon, or reed (which i have never heard of...i should check out their website)...but i do know that oregon and washington do give our local stanford and cal problems in sports from time to time ;) ...too bad for stanford not making the final four...oh well, there's always next year

    pomona i hear is excellent and i could concede putting it in the spot of uc davis...but davis is still a great school and most noted for agriculture, thus the moniker the "aggies" and 3-D art...and they are noted for their bicycles ;)

    pepperdine is an all around great school and among the southern california private universities, probably surpassed only by usc and cal tech

    claremont is very good in business and in it's region, it's reputation is second only to usc...ucla's anderson school of business is also good, but i would rather take classes in business from claremont and peter drucker (father of modern american business theory) and his co-horts at that school

    if we are then talking b-schools as opposed to overall university reputation, i would have to add thunderbird in arizona and for entrepreneurs in search of their mba, the best school in the nation
     
  7. djkny macrumors 6502

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    Sep 30, 2003
    #7
    ivies

     
  8. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

    Staff Member

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    Los Angeles
    #8
    [soapbox]
    Keep in mind that we have no definition of "great" here. We can still make lists, but high schoolers and junior college attendees looking to transfer should remember that a university that's great overall may still not be the best choice for them. For example, for an architecture student on the west coast, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo is stellar, even if it doesn't make the top lists in other fields, while of the UC campuses I think only Berkeley even offers an undergraduate B of Arch degree. For performance-oriented music students, there are many great universities, including UCLA, but for music composition UCLA offers very little, while U.C. San Diego has a much better program.

    Even outside of academics, some students do fine on a large busy campus and some benefit most from the quiet atmosphere outside major urban centers.

    So go ahead and make your lists, but be aware that nobody should simply pick the top-overall-ranked university that they can afford to go to.
    [/soapbox]
     
  9. poopyhead macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

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    in the toe-jam of greatness (Fort Worth)
    #9
    come on
    these aren't second tier
    'least not emory
    its first all the way

    also

    the good southern schools (emory, vandy, duke) are typically called kudzu league (at least by the people who go to'em)
     
  10. question fear macrumors 68020

    question fear

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    #10
    i was qualifying first tier based on jefhatfield's list, which indicated ivys as first tier-ish. its all subjective.
     
  11. poopyhead macrumors 6502a

    poopyhead

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    #11
    sorry
     
  12. question fear macrumors 68020

    question fear

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    #12
    its ok :)
     
  13. Mav451 macrumors 68000

    Mav451

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    #13
    Hehehe...music to my ears. What major is he going for? Maryland was a safety school maybe 20-25 years ago, but in the past 10 years, it has rocketed up the charts. Engineering is hard, but even just getting IN is getting tougher.

    Many of my friends with loaded transcripts, 3.8+ unweighted GPAs were NOT accepted into Maryland. I think the reason I got in was the combination of a "decent" SAT score, along with SAT II's to boot and a well-rounded transcript (band, 2-3 clubs, etc.)

    1260 was the average about 4 years ago, but now I think the average is closer to the mid 1300's. Lucky for me, I still managed to get in with a paltry 1310 :)

    *People also look at me funny when I say Penn State is a safety school. It, however, was the first application I got back (one of the easier apps to fill out anyway).

    And I wonder how much this has to do with the basketball/football program's recent success as well :)

    (football: three consecutive 10-win seasons under the Fridge)
    (basketball: Well, 2002 Championship would be one ;), and the 11 consecutive NCAA tourney appearances may also be one).
     
  14. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #14
     
  15. gwuMACaddict macrumors 68040

    gwuMACaddict

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    washington dc
    #15
    i think this is sort of a bs topic. your sucess coming out of college is determined by what you make of your undegraduate experience, no matter where you go. an undergrad degree isn't worth a hill of beans anymore, graduate/law/med schools look for experience/well-roundedness/ability to contribute to the school in diverse ways/test scores more than anything else.
     
  16. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

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    Jul 9, 2000
    #16
    mostly i am just talking about school reputations

    as for success in life, many with college degrees, even from elite institutions, don't succeed

    many non college grads do quite well...ask mr. gates, or steve jobs, or larry ellison, etc etc etc ;)

    luck, then timing, followed by the person's ambition, determine how a person succeeds in life...i for one am lucky, and happy that i was born in the usa and i see college mostly as a good life experience which enriches a person's outlook on life
     
  17. djkny macrumors 6502

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    Sep 30, 2003
    #17
    G,
    I agree with you. Success is hardly determined by undergraduate pedigree alone but by effort and will.

    I just had to chime in when blatant misconceptions were spread. To clarify, my bias against USC was not an "envy of the wealthy." It's just based on reality. Equating USC with Harvard? Yeah, sure. If you use tailgating parties as a criteria.

    I knew plenty of HS classmates in the early 90s who picked 'SC over Harvard, Yale or Princeton because 'SC practically threw money in their faces (full rides) and begged them to come. Sure, if you're getting a full scholarship, why not? But academic pedigree? Don't think so.

    'SC isn't exactly noted for humanities scholarship. a great biz school, yes. Why wouldn't a trade school excel in the professional trades?
     
  18. gwuMACaddict macrumors 68040

    gwuMACaddict

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    washington dc
    #18
    i guess my point was that this is a hugely subjective topic. many people have listed Gtown as a school with an excellent reputation. I know of many profs that teach in many different departments at that school that would dare to say otherwise. like everything else, it's who you talk to. i agree that rankings and such can help people.... i guess i just didnt want this thread turning in to another one of those "how high is your IQ" threads... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  19. jefhatfield thread starter Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #19
    oh i remember that IQ thread...too funny...everybody there was approaching 200 ;)

    rating schools is very subjective and in the case of a harvard, being america's first school will always get it brownie points

    public universities are not given their due in many rankings and some say that a cal berkeley,virginia, michigan, or wisconsin (all quoted by usn&wr as best public at one time or another) could very well be as good as a harvard or yale in terms of quality of instruction and faculty

    being a minority, i have heard a lot of stories about fellow japanese americans, not long after wwII who got passed over by the stanford and usc clubs, but got accepted by ucla and cal...i did grow up with much of my ethnic community having a chip on their shoulder against stanford and usc because they all knew white people with lower test scores who got into those elite schools while they were left out

    some think, maybe accurately, that in those days and up into the 70s that minorities were not taken seriously by private, elite schools...but thank god for state government and a sense of fairness in california and god bless cal and ucla for being a bastion of asian americans in an age where asian americans were passed over by the elite private schools

    today, things are much different for minorities and we can be found in private schools, too...though not in a representation of how predominant we are in society...but this too will change as racism is stomped out by people of all colors

    my dad was amazed when he saw how many chinese were at stanford these days...at one time, railroad tycoon leland stanford was seen as some sort of demon in asian american circles...especially among chinese americans

    the railroads have a sad history here in california and many chinese died there
     
  20. Mav451 macrumors 68000

    Mav451

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    Maryland
    #20
    hehe, speaking of subjectiveness...one of my friends (asian) was accepted into USC, but backed down b/c he was a bit worried of the "AzN" scene. If your asian and understands what AzN is then you will know what I'm talking about.

    The irony of it all :)
     
  21. gwuMACaddict macrumors 68040

    gwuMACaddict

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    #21
    hahahaha! i'm glad you remember it too, that was one hugely ridiculous fiasco. :D
     
  22. question fear macrumors 68020

    question fear

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    #22
    he wants crim justice or poli sci...i can safely say for andrew the sports definitely helps, and the proximity to, but distance from, the city helps too...he's a fairly well-rounded kid, plays varsity baseball, has good leadership extracurriculars...solid grades, but chokes on the SAT (he's getting a tutor)...its true though, maryland has become much tougher. congrats on being there, glad to hear you like it. what year are you?
     
  23. G4scott macrumors 68020

    G4scott

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    Austin, TX
    #23
    My university (The University of Texas at Austin) is a pretty good school. It was my first, and only choice, but many people who I know of who had it as a second choice are now happy they went here instead of where they would've gone. They say the environment is better, and from what they hear from friends who went to those other schools, classes here are better. Our academic standards are pretty high, and from my experiences, you do have to apply yourself to do well. There aren't many classes you can just breeze through. Of course, being the largest public university in the nation makes it hard not to be seen as a "diploma mill", as some people think we're heading towards right now. I would have to say that quite the opposite is true, and we're making progress to become a more prestigious university.

    Of course, there are many other find academic institutions each with their own special things to offer.
     
  24. powerbook4me macrumors member

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    Apr 20, 2004
    #24

    Yup. Texas -A&M and SMU are just awsome too(known people that have gone to these schools. :D
     
  25. Sedulous macrumors 68000

    Sedulous

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    #25
    Well, actually if you ever go to a Yale-Harvard football game (known here as simply "The Game") you might be impressed by the tailgating.
     

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