Jaguar = p*ssycat

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by AmbitiousLemon, May 21, 2002.

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Jaguar — *****cat or king of the jungle?

  1. My overall impressions of jaguar are positive. bring on that sexy jungle cat grrrrrrr rah!

    7 vote(s)
    36.8%
  2. some good, some bad, but overall still undecided. could go either way depending on what happens in

    6 vote(s)
    31.6%
  3. My overall impressions of jaguar are negative. just a lil *****cat update, puma would eat this kitt

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. havnt installed it yet, but jus had tah vote cuz im like dat!

    6 vote(s)
    31.6%
  1. AmbitiousLemon Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #1
    i finally found time to install "jaguar" onto one of my computers and have mixed feelings. I am very curious to hear other people's responses as i havent heard much more than whisperings on various threads about what people thought.

    Here are some of my impressions.

    iChat: first thing i looked at. i am a huge adium fan, and keep it up 24/7 on all my computers even though i dont even talk to anyone most days (great as an answering machine though). so i wanted to see what apple's take on instant messaging was like. big thumbs down on this one. ugly, bloated, and SLOW. this thing is by far the worst application i have ever had on my computer (and i even had windows 95 installed via virtual pc for awhile). i cant believe apple is serious about this. i know its far from finished (most options and preferences arent enabled yet) but there are some serious interface, usability, and speed issues. lets hope they get them ironed out in time. on a positive note the menubar item is pretty cool, i would lve to see this expanded upon. and i like how i can be online without having ichat open.

    speed/qe. i installed jag on my lombard and found the speed improvements interesting, but not wholey compelling. cpu usage while manipulating gui elements has been greatly reduced, and scrolling in mozilla is now faster than my lcdimac. all the new eye candy is also quite interesting, and doesnt seem to slow things down at all. but there is still a sluggishness in some functions. in fact some things are slower than 10.1. the dock still jerks around, hoping the iMac ont have this problem when it gets jagwired. i paid $1100 for this thing and it can burn dvds but cant keep the damn dock from jerking around! but we will see if qe fixes this. launching things like system preferences takes forever to load. gui elements in quicktime, itunes, addressbook are very slow (im wondering if apple is retooling the brushed metal look somehow and it isnt quite finished in jaguar).

    looks like they might be changing some menubar item things because these have become very buggy and slow (usually a sign that they are working on them). i dont see anything new yet, but it might be all backend stuff, hopefully it will give third party developers a lot more power with their menubar items. but im just hoping.

    but i mentioned system preferences. i was wrong. those pictures that were leaked some time ago were real. darn shame too, because seems like useless bloatware to me. i was really hoping apple would clean up, reorgnaize, and add to the system preferences. there really isnt anything new there. and this brings me to my next point.

    i cant imagine paying for jaguar. i assumed we would have new features that would finally fix all the major problems in 10.1, and i really cant find any real fixes. we have icon size list in the view options. we have a blue throbber now (you see it plenty often, depsite rumors to the contrary, you just see it in new places). dock is now blue instead of white. seems like QE is the only real improvement so far, and although a big one its not worth paying for since its something they should have done from day one. i wanted to see the interface bugs wiped clean. they have changed things but have largely ignored the feedback the beta testers have been giving them since the dp days two years ago! maybe i had my expectations too high, especially considering this is a very early (assuming a august or spetember release) preview, but i would gladly wait another year if it meant they would finally start listening to their own GUI guidelines.

    and lastly the thing we have all been begging for and been promised since so long ago — springloaded folders. bit of a problem here, they dont doesnt work in the dock! apple has spent so much time fighting for the dock. The dock is the main terminal for my ineteraction with all of my drives, folders, files, and apps. this is what apple wanted us to do. how many memos did we get about how to use the dock? huge oversight, i really hope this is simply just something that is not functional yet. springloaded folders are effectively useless to me until the dock gets access to it. i suspect this might be the case since some folder icons change (they open) when you drag an item to them, but there is no springloaded action. im holding out some hope.

    something they got right? the icon badges on minimized windows. cheer. an example of one of teh rare case when apple has decided to listen to its beta testers. (only took what? two year.) but good job. one comment on them (its a comment not a complaint, really it is) they shoudl have the icon badge shrink at a different rate than the window icon when you resize the dock, at small sizes the badge needs to be larger.

    so im eagerly waiting to hear what all of your thoughts and impressions of jaguar are because im on the fence here. either apple has a lot more work to do before august, or this is one lame duck. what do you think?

    [havent jagwired your system yet? why not? AL will hook you up, just ask]
     
  2. Hemingray macrumors 68030

    Hemingray

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Ha ha haaa!
    #2
    Your observations are bittersweet. On the one hand there's a lot of positive stuff, (stuff I like to hear :D ), but on the other hand, it sounds like it's a bit of a disappointment. I'm hoping probably just as much as you are that most of where it lacks is due to it still being a work-in-progress.

    [I would like to "jagwire" my system but I think I'll just wait and be semi-surprised... thanks for the offer though. :) ]
     
  3. eyelikeart Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Location:
    Metairie, LA
    #3
    I'm still skeptical to install it...

    how late is the beta? is it still beta??

    I don't know...there's one thing in installing beta software like photoshop...

    but when it comes to what actually runs the computer...I'm a bit afraid to trust a beta...even if all of u are saying how well it runs...

    I'd rather just wait on it...:(
     
  4. AmbitiousLemon thread starter Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #4
    thats totally understandable eye. i typically keep a partition for beta oses and stuff i dont trust. i wouldnt suggest installing any beta os over your main os.

    but you should also realize that this isnt some pirated beta floating around the net. this is something apple gave to developers expecting people to use it to see whats up. i think its clear apple tried to clean things up a bit before releasing this. of course apple certainly doesnt expect anyone to run it as their main system. its just a sneaky peak to install somewhere that wont effect your workstream.

    but developers definitely NEED to get a look at this stuff. there are a lot of apps and such that dont work properly (or at all) in jaguar. im very glad apple is waiting several month to release this baby because there is a lot of room for improvement. im very surprised at how little has been done. im hoping they have been working behind the scenes and so their work just isnt apparent yet (this happens a lot, although its not apple's style generally). developers will also need the time to start using all the new eyecandy and get used to all the changes. im a little disappointed that apple hasnt updated their gui guidelines because developers need to start thinking about the gui changes.
     
  5. blackpeter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2001
    #5
    Yeah, let's remember that one of the reasons Apple likes to release these betas is to get feedback to really make them work. If there's company and one person who doesn't mind throwing away everything and starting from scratch, it's Apple and Steve Jobs.

    So developers, and the like - send your responses to Apple. Tell them that iChat sucks, tell them that OS X is still looking more like the turtle and not enought like the hare, tell them you want more.

    You may not succeed in doing anything more than preventing development from resting on their laurels - and sometimes, that's enough. I'm sure Apple wants OS X to "feel" faster than 9 more than anyone else. I'm just not so sure that we're all that close yet.
     
  6. eyelikeart Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Location:
    Metairie, LA
    #6
    I've heard that quite a few times lately...

    I'm starting to think about reconfiguring my external drive with X instead of 9...

    maybe it would be cool to get in on the action? ;)
     
  7. AmbitiousLemon thread starter Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #7
    i think we all understand speed is difficult but its the gui problems that are shocking. and after years of telling them the same thing it begins to wear thin. apple is the only developer i know who ignores its testers so often. beta testers enjoy picking software apart, we dont see it as complaining but just helping something improve, but when you keep getting ignored you start feeling like a nag. i mean i feel bad sending the same comments over and over again. especially when you know everyone else is saying the same thing. its like how many times do we need to say "i know this has been mentioned before but..."

    but like i said maybe up til now they have been focusing on bigger issues (back end stuff i dont deal with) and maybe all the goodies and bug fixes are waiting to spring to the forefront on jaguar's official release. its possible. some things (as i mentioned) are buggy that shouldnt be, which probably means they have been working under the hood and something new is in the works. i just expected jaguar preview to show off more, apple made a big enough deal about it. and it is very unapple lik to behave like this. typically they get the gui done first and then work out all the performance and bug issues. but i guess they are just dealing with so many problems they are a bit swamped. i dont know i can go back and forth on this forever. thats why i really want to hear what peopel think. i know there are a lot of peopel who got copies so whats up? have you been like me and just been wiating to install. do it and talk to me already!
     
  8. eyelikeart Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Location:
    Metairie, LA
    #8
    ok! ok! ok!! :eek:

    I'll see what I can do...he he he...

    I'll be sure to have a full report for u once it's complete ;)
     
  9. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    #9
    As soon as it is finished (no more beta) and released, I will grab it. Most likely as soon as it hits the market I will either order it, or buy it. If I can download it, I will.

    Anyone know if the ADC releases the non-beta versions of major updates before they go public??
     
  10. AmbitiousLemon thread starter Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
  11. Kid Red macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    #11
    I can't see why you wouldn't think this is worth an upgrade price. It's leaps and bounds beyond 10.1.4. There are numerous improvements, speed enhancements, new features and new applications. It's a no-brainer that this will cost and that many like myself will gladly pay for this awesome beast once final.

    I didn't experience as many bugs as you, also realizing this isn't even a beta. There are plenty of reasons that I've posted in other threads here and other boards about what 10.2 has to offer and how it runs.

    It's worthy of it's name at such an infant stage of developement.
     
  12. AmbitiousLemon thread starter Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #12
    certain developers do get big releases. smaller releases and the occasional big release make their way into the mail, but i wouldnt expect jaguar early.

    often early is just a couple of days too. although fcp came out pretty early compared to the shipping date, but apple had already anouced it so no surprises ruined.

    if we have any big name developers here im sure they can give much better details then a lowly lemon.
     
  13. AlphaTech macrumors 601

    AlphaTech

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    #13
    Nice info lemon... I will have to check the ADC site/pages to see what has shown up there in the past. Maybe I will get lucky and be able to get it that way. :D
     
  14. AmbitiousLemon thread starter Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #14
    i dont seem 'em. i see eyecandy, bloatware, and the worst "iapp" ever. QE is the one redeeming quality of jaguar, everything else is at the moment unrealized potencial. and its that potencial that has me sitting here thinking apple may still pull off a great update.

    but like i said, i want to hear your comments. what specifically makes you think it is so worthwhile, im asking peopel to convince me because i want to be convinced. writing that first post i began realizing how little apple had actually done so far. osx just has so much f*cking potencial it drives me nuts that it has gone largely unrealized. I just want to see that apple is finally tapping that potencial.
     
  15. javadev macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    #15
    java version?

    Are the jaguar betas using jdk v1.4 yet? I'm doing some java and not being able to use some of the new api's in 1.4 is starting to become a problem... I guess I should just fork over the bucks and join apple's developer program... since I'm one of the only guys using osx in a largely windoze shop, I doubt I can get the company to pay for that :(


    -- Rob
     
  16. icetraxxg5 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Location:
    Commerce Township
    #16
    The biggest problem with jaguar is the bloated preferences application! There is SO many new areas in it that have only like one option that could be all combine in one area.
     
  17. Zenith macrumors 6502

    Zenith

    Joined:
    May 18, 2001
    Location:
    Norway
    #17
    Ah, which reminds me... Java in Jaguar is Great, with a big G! Or Fast! Especially Limewire. MUCH faster than in 10.1.x. :)
     
  18. javadev macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    #18
    fast is good, but what version is it? Could you do me a big favor and open a terminal and type "java -version"? Thx!

    -- Rob
     
  19. AmbitiousLemon thread starter Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #19
    agreed. its ugly and a mess. i think apple will fix it though, remember what the pref panes used to look like (pre 10.1)
     
  20. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Location:
    San Destin Florida
    #20
    Well, my personal experience have been different. The only problem that I have found is that my printer won't install. That is it. It is faster, and much cleaner than X.1.4 for me. iDisk absolutely flies, and everything is snappy. Lemon, what are the specs on your system? I have not encountered any of the problems that you have. What build is yours? Mine shows pre-release, but under system disk it is 6C35.

    Also, I have to disagree with the System prefs. I think the Digital hub stuff is great. The new screen saver is friggin awesome, and the disk copy software is now really laid out better.
     
  21. Grokgod macrumors 6502a

    Grokgod

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2002
    Location:
    Deep within the heart of madness!
    #21
    Limewire faster?>!

    hell if limewire is faster thats reason enough to install it,
    Isnt it? maybe it isnt, it could be, perhaps.
    Sure it is, I like limewire but its very slow, whats up with that?

    Lemon~ Correct me if I am wrong but if you installed the new JAG on a Lombard. That wouldnt give you the full potential of living all the speed of QE.
    I dont think that it has the MIN for testing its possible speed advantages.
     
  22. AmbitiousLemon thread starter Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #22
    b2tm. good to hear excited comments. i dont me to sound negative. kinda the way the writtenw ord works, things always sound exagerrated since there is no human aspect to it.

    i dont think ice or i are saying the prefs arent useful (at least im not). im very pleased they are fleshing things out there. but we are complaining about the organization. its a bit much as is.

    like i said my impressions are mixed, but i suspect most of the faults are due to its beta nature. i gues sim surprised apple gave out a beta this buggy in mass. they dont nrmally do that. by the time code hits the cd is fairly stable. i think i just need to get it through my thick skull that this represents something nowhere near completion.

    its actually impressive if you think opf it as early development.

    i guess i was epecting ichat to work, springloaded folders to work, and no slow downs worse than 10.1. but this is unrealistic for something this early on. im sure by the time we hit 10.2 things will be well worked out.
     
  23. AmbitiousLemon thread starter Moderator emeritus

    AmbitiousLemon

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Location:
    down in Fraggle Rock
    #23
    Re: Limewire faster?>!

    im well aware of this. and made a point of it. but you will notice my complaints arent with that, in fact those are the best parts. seems gui elements are doing quite well, with greatly decreased cpu load.
     
  24. Choppaface macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Location:
    SFBA
    #24
    wow i hope it doesnt turn out that for every update in OS X people will have to update their software. there's a lot of software that is only for 10.1 and above....and there are some things I've noticed that work in 10.1 but work differently in 10.1.4

    can you list specifically what you tried and didnt work?
     

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