Japanese taken hostage, troops stay or go?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by macka, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. macka macrumors regular

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    #1
    Japan turmoil over Iraq hostages

    Should they stay or go?
     
  2. numediaman macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    I'm not sure the Japanese have a way to negotiate this -- they have no way to talk to them. So they are left with a choice between just pulling out, or waiting for the worst. I think they have no choice but to stay -- states don't give into random terrorism. Three people will be sacrificed.

    One thing for sure: the Japanese public will blame their government, and the U.S. specifically, if anything happens to these people.
     
  3. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #3
    As a Japanese, I would say that there is no way that they will pull out now. If those three people die, it may cause the government to send more troops to attack the Iraqi troublemakers. I would not be surprised if there is already a special group looking for the hostages.
     
  4. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #4
    i don't think the hostages have much of any chance of getting out there alive. i basically agree w/ the "don't negotiate w/ terrorists" tenent. their real motivation is to weaken japanese public support. such tactics will work.

    this is asymetrical warfare. i thought vietnam taught us that regular military operations cannot win in such a situation.
     
  5. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #5
    as much as i have criticized ronald reagan on these boards, he did keep out out of war for 8 years and when lebanon, a worse situation than iraq, looked like it was not our business anymore, we pulled out

    the us could have escalated lebanon when their terrorists took out 200+ marines with a single car bomb, but reagan knew from the lessons in vietnam that we cannot fight a war cleanly from our side against madmen who have nothing to lose using terrorist tactics

    we are at a crossroads here...today americans have been captured and now the issue hits home more

    should we escalate this and have it be our generation's vietnam or should we get out like reagan did with the hopeless quagmire of lebanon in the 80s?

    ask yourself this, what can we really gain from staying in power there? even former speaker of the house newt ginigrich (r - ga) has called for the us to hand over the power to the iraqis...and that was last year!

    the usa does not have a right to withold the reigns of government from iraq and her people...we cannot or should not expect iraq to become an overnight carbon copy of the united states...it would be nice on june 30 if we handed over iraq to the iraqis and they lived happily ever after, but that will not be the case then so there is no reason for us to delay the govenment handover

    i am sure we already have iqaqis in place who are unofficially running the country and it's just a matter of formal declaration to the world that the changeover in power has taken place
     
  6. idkew macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    #6
    if japan were to pull out, it would be a clear message that hostage taking works. more hostages would be taken. the situation would worsen.
     
  7. idkew macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    #7
    you know what really confuses me is, how did japan and the us become such great friends?

    our citizens hated each other with a passion. atrocities were committed by both sides. what is it that the us did, after the fall of japan, that allowed little resistance and the beginnings of a friendship?

    how can we do this in iraq?

    (btw- ambrose has a chapter about this in his book, "Americans at War")
     
  8. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #8
    I wasn't talking about the U.S. at all, if you're alluding to that.

    I've been asking why there is friendship for a long time. It's only the veterans who have any real hatred and they were only doing what they were told.

    Commodore Perry forced his way into Japan a long time ago and I would think that the Japanese government would be more wary of what the U.S. does. However, I believe the Japanese constitution, drafted by the U.S. government, states that Japan will never harm the U.S.A. and will help when called.
     
  9. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #9
    citizens or governments?

    i grew up in the cold war, complete w/ the hiding under the desks drills (for nuclear war). we were taught to hate the russians. i've since met many awesome russians, forcing me to confront my childhood prejudices.

    why did i have those prejudices? i didn't know any russians personally, it was all based on fear of our "enemy." sure, the governments might have been adverserial, but why must that translate into hating its people?

    imo, it's correct for bush to focus on what's good for "the iraqi people." i've noticed that his words say one thing while his actions say another.

    the american public supports what's good for "the iraqi people." i find that at cross purposes w/ attacks in the US on muslims and mosques. i find that at cross purposes w/ those i've seen treat arabs (and anyone looking remotely arab) w/ disdain or hostility. i've actually seen people wait for a non-arab cab driver.

    i'm rambling a bit. to conclude: it ain't healthy
     
  10. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #10

    to me, it's not such a black and white issue

    before 9/11, the most devastating terrorist attack was on 200+ marines who got blown up by a terrorist...we left their country and they claimed "victory"

    sometimes terrorism works, sometimes major military force works, sometimes minor military force or special ops, sometimes diplomacy works

    in today's current political climate, the usa might have to resort to "dirty" tactics in order to fight the terrorists but in the end, we will win...but not quickly or decisively

    as the world changes, so will the fortunes of the countries the terrorists hail from and that will make them stop more than anything else

    the most common war cry for the middle eastern terrorist has been the palestinian homeland issue...colin powell is in favor of a palestinian homeland and diplomatic actions in that direction will stop terrorists faster than guns and bombs

    but we will still need guns and bombs to go after any terrorist we can but not in a military manner since any lasting peace will negate their objective...but the usa still has to catch these terrorists because they are still criminals and no land should make safe harbor for these thugs and they will be brought to justice

    gwb makes the terrorist issue a military issue and i think while this may work for the short term, the usa has to still rely on the cia and fbi and law enforcement to take down terrorists who are at large, in a law enforcement fashion

    but if palestine does not get a homeland in the next few years, most of our efforts in catching current terrorists will be futile

    as we speak, unrest in the middle east, especially palestine, will breed ten terrorists for every terrorist we catch or kill right now...the ultimate answer to the problems we are facing right now is peace in the middle east and unfortunately, since we don't live in a perfect world, this may sometimes take some military support and innocent civilians will always get killed...it's ironic but that's the best the world can do right now

    could you imagine if a city like new york had no armed cops? we all know of big city cops who do wrong and sometimes kill an innocent person, but in the end, it's good that our cops in big cities carry guns...where i live in a small rural community, some of the police officers only have pepper spray and batons but that's all they need to get their job done...so one day in the enforcement of peace between palestinians and jews in israel, it may be possible that armed force will not have to lord over the people there to keep the peace
     
  11. idkew macrumors 68020

    idkew

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    #11
    i know this sound much like the cliché'd "Can't we all just get along" remark, but why can't everyone peacefully share the holy cities in the middle east?

    i have no problem with other religions practicing, recruiting and such in my town/neighborhood. why is it that this wall needs to be fought over?

    why can't each religion use the wall for their holy practice, and accept that someone else uses the same wall for a different holy practice?

    i really think that the "religion-ism" that forces these people to not accept others is the cause of all the trouble. if the religions would stop preaching that the other religion is wrong, and just let them do their thing, the would would be such a better place.

    (i know this is off topic... )


    oh- and the people vs. gov. hatred thing. the gov. got our people to hate the enemy. our people truly thought they hate the japanese, but in reality, once we figured out who they (the enemy) were, neither side could figure out why they hated each other.
     
  12. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #12
    Haven't they been released, unharmed? (Physically anyway) Last nights news said they had been released. This morning they were saying they hadn't but were suppose to be.

    Never ever given in to hostage takers. Bad Precedent.
     

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