Job Growth Stalls in February, Surprising Forecasters

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Mar 5, 2004.

  1. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #1
    link

     
  2. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #2
    Ouch. January's job numbers were also revised down from 112,000 to 97,000. Not a good time to be looking for work. Lots of people giving up it looks like. Bush is going to look sillier the more he goes out campaigning on the basis of economic strength. No wonder his new ads focus on the 9/11 attacks. Anything to keep from talking about the economy.
     
  3. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #3
    I'm sorry, I have to laugh. Wall Street forecasters are surprised? Don't they ever look around??
     
  4. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #4
    damn is it getting difficult to keep track of all these downward revisions. wasn't december also downwardly revised?
     
  5. TimDaddy macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Wasn't Bush saying that the economy would create, like, 300 Trillion jobs or something this year? Ten months to go...

    And I remember when I used to get steaming mad on here when you damned people bashed Bush. :D I apologize.
     
  6. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #6
    Yes, December's numbers were revised from an initial report of 16,000 down to 8,000.

    As Kerry's team pointed out today, at this rate the Bush economic engine will have created it's first net new job 10 years from now.
     
  7. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #7
    If this number doesn't turn around in a big way by the time of the Dem's convention, then, barring any last minute foreign surprises, Bush is likely done. Why then? because that is when many folks will start to focus on the race and their opinions on Bush's handling of the economy will be formed.
     
  8. numediaman macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    Likely Bush response:
    "The decline in the workforce is caused by the rise in same-sex marriages. Obviously, the wife has decided to stay home with the kids."

    Likely Rumsfeld response:
    "There are no "discouraged" workers leaving the workforce, they are all new recruits in the armed forces."

    The Commerce Department response:
    "We have reclassified employed workers, they are now Very, Very Light Manufacturing."

    Like Rice response:
    "In preparation for the Rapture, several thousand jobs have been taken up to heaven. The people will soon follow."

    I'm running out of ideas.
     
  9. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #9
    Told you so.
     
  10. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #10
    Now now, let's not go there.

    TimDaddy, thanks for putting that out there. I think you are only one of many people who supported the idea of a compassionate (and by extension, moderate) conservative who feels betrayed now. Just do me a favor and don't vote for Bush this time around ok? Just leave that part blank if you can't bring yourself to vote for Kerry.
     
  11. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #11
    i've got one!

    Dept. of Labor response:
    "Everyone searching for a job has been reclassified as a Resume Manufacturer. Unemployment is now under 1% and we have a net gain in manufacturing jobs under Bush."
     
  12. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #12
    I can't help but feel utter frustration at all those who now see the light but dismissed the dissent just a year or so ago.

    Howard Stern is one of them. He was GWB's biggest supporter up to just a few weeks ago. He loved the "War on Terror."

    Now the religious right-wing nutter conservative chicken has come home to roost, as the FCC is beginning to levy massive fines on Stern for the first time since the Clinton administration.

    ClearChannel, the conservative Bush-buddy-owned monopolistic monster radio conglomerate, has dumped Stern and publicly (and in front of the FCC) trash-talked their loyal employee after happily and quietly profiting from his show for years...

    I can't help but feel frustration at the fact that I knew this crap was coming but very few people believed it would.

    This administration DOES NOT CARE about anything or anyone that does not directly aid it in pursuit of its own extremeist, theological and ideological agenda.

    Now we have Bush running ads talking about his plans and his vision for the future. Despite four years of miserable failure, he'd like you to think he's a leader that'll suddenly go to bat for the American people instead of his following his own horse**** plans in spite of the rest of America.

    This administration does have big plans for success. You're not included in them.
     
  13. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #13
    Dept of Homeland Security response: Everyone maintains some level of alert during a class "yellow" or higher terror alert. The higher the alert level, the more people who are alarmed enough to put an effort into their level of alarm.

    This effort will now be classified as a job.

    In an unrelated story, the terror alert was raised to red for the first time.
     
  14. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #14
    I hear that the sector with the most jobs created has been government employees. Way to go Dubya!
     
  15. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #15
    Just be thankful they are seeing the light now, and not in December.
     
  16. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #16
    My dad's company did some sever downsizing this week. He was laid off permanently. He is 59 years old. Now he has to look for a new job.
     
  17. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #17
    Jesus Christ, that's rough. Hope he finds something.
     
  18. TimDaddy macrumors 6502

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    #18
    Man, I'm sorry to hear that. I wish him good luck in his job search. My company has been downsizing for a couple of years now. Luckily, the Japanese corporations aren't quite as greedy as the Americans, yet. They haven't laid anyone off, they just won't hire anyone else until attrition runs its course. And, at the same time, it is one of, if not the, most profitable auto companies right now. Maybe someone needs to make that method of downsizing into law. Japan used to have it, if they still don't. And I believe India has a system like that. If you are going to get welfare from the taxpayers for opening a business, then maybe you can keep the people you hire and if you don't need them, find them something to do until someone retires. I don't know, sounds a little restrictive, but I say don't hire hundreds of new employees based on one good quarter, only to lay them off a few months down the road.
     
  19. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #19
    Hokay: What would any of you do in order to "create jobs"? What would you have Bush or Kerry do? What action could government--Congress or the Agencies--take that would restore the millions of $20+/hr jobs that no longer exist here?

    En passant, I note that several Japanese car manufacturers wil open assembly plants here to take advantage of the relative values of the currencies. Sales have dropped enough over the last few years to justify the investment costs. Toyota in San Antonio, for one. Estimated, some 70,000 new jobs, overall.

    Separately but allied: Toyota of Japan (TJ) sells its vehicles to Toyota of North America (TNA)--which TJ owns--at a price closer to retail than is common for Ford's or GM's sales to their dealers. The profit margin for TNA is much, much less than for TJ. Ergo, TNA pays a relatively small amount of taxes. TJ's profitability is thus much higher than for Ford or GM, and it can afford more R&D, etc., as well as the "corporate benevolence" implied above.

    A non-exact example: For two $15,000 retail-sticker cars, GM might sell to a dealer for $10,000; TJ sells to TNA for $14,000. That $4,000 difference is profit to TJ, and is not taxed in the US. US dealers pay taxes on their profits. (The aggregate of profits of its US dealers is higher than that of GM itself, when one talks of corporate taxes on profits. Sorry; just another aside.)

    :), 'Rat
     
  20. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #20
    How about we expand the hell out of the federal government? Oh wait, Dubya's done that already. We could say "Bring 'em on!" to a few more countries and expand the military. Oh yeah, that's still the government.

    If we're not looking for the government to force anything on us, how about that old 'Buy American' campaign? Could that not be revived in a 'Hire American' redux? I do as much as I can to find high quality stuff made by Americans making a decent wage. Sure it's a little more expensive, but I do get a nice product out of it. I don't see our current administration showing any interest or leadership in this area, and in fact they seem to be encouraging the job movement. Probably because that is good for their big supporters.
     
  21. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #21
    "...how about that old 'Buy American' campaign? Could that not be revived in a 'Hire American' redux?"

    Buy American? Fine. What do you do about the comparative prices available from "Not American" stuff? We sell cotton to Taiwan and China; they sell us $5 shirts--some of which are marked $25 :). Is that all bad? (The deal is, I'm compassionate about the buying power of poor folks; they shouldn't have to rely on Goodwill. Just a little sarcasm, there. :) )

    Comparative value? A lathe from Taiwan or Japan is as good as a lathe from South Bend. I have a lot of Snap-On tools. I can buy a full set of box/open-end wrenches from 3/8" to 1-1/4" from Sam's for $25--which is the cost of one 1/4"-drive universal socket from Snap-On. What's the average home mechanic gonna choose?

    Buy American? I have. A 1978 580C Case backhoe and a 1980 GMC 7000 dumptruck. No metric nuts or bolts. Quality? I have no complaints. But my primary Terlingua vehicle is a 1985 Toyota 4WD PU, because no other brand of vehicle--even other Japanese--will survive this country down here nearly so well.

    Once upon a time, the US Had It All. But, how successful is your hamburger joint gonna be, comparatively, if six other guys open hamburger joints on your street? Seems to me a wise fella oughta think up a more competitive line of bidness. Finger out sumpn nobody else is making and selling. Historically, ain't that the American way?

    :), 'Rat
     
  22. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #22
    Well 'Rat, you do the same thing you do when you are offended by a company's actions/values etc. You don't buy from them. Just as an example I'll use my Tom Bihn briefcase. I paid a little more for it than the cheapest bag I could find, but I met Tom many years ago, and he's a decent guy, likes to design quality bags, has a shop in Washington that employs American workers who he pays enough to be able to afford to buy a house and afford health care etc. I got an excellent bag with excellent protection for my laptop. I know that my money went to a businessman who is interested in the well-being of his workers and that he's not filing taxes in the Cayman Islands, nor locking his workers in for a 12-hour shift.

    Well, I dunno about the average home mechanic. Personally I drive my tools pretty hard, so most of my tools are of the high quality variety. I'll snap a $25 socket wrench pretty quick putting 1/2 lag bolts into deck framing. And even I won't buy American if the American version isn't as good, but I think there are many, many US companies that I can support with a clear conscience. I just want to see some enthusiam for it the way people used to say 'Buy American' with pride. Now it's 'Buy Walmart. Cheap!' That kind of leadership needs to come from the top. That's the kind of position a government should take. It doesn't force anyone to do anything, it just encourages behavior that keeps jobs here and promotes US business.

    Like I said, I don't always buy American either. There are cases where the American company needs to be persuaded (by taking my business elsewhere) that their products aren't as good as they could be. I just got myself a Toyota pickup as well. I hope it lasts for as long as yours, and I have faith it will. None of the American trucks I tried felt as good. For the same reason I also have a Honda Civic. Best build quality for the money IMHO. But when I can, I support local businesses and business people.
     
  23. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

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    #23
    one way to add jobs in a sluggish economy is to shorten the work week...thereby splitting the number of hours worked between multiple employees.

    companies did this( with excellent results) during the great depression. kellogg even found it possible to pay it's employees full-time wages because productivity increased substantially.

    i much favor this approach over the current " have one worker do the job of two employees" method that has been used to pump up productivity. workers are unhappy, job quality suffers and eventually people burn-out and productivity declines.

    the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long....
     
  24. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #24
  25. zimv20 thread starter macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #25
    d'rat - the only idea i have is to have gov't make it easier for small business and the self-employed. i think people like to buy locally and from small business provided they can stay competative. small business is more likely to hire locally and outsource locally.

    a good start would be:
    • for the bush administration to lay off the Small Business Administration (their funding is getting killed)
    • the self-employed should be given a lighter tax burden
    • local gov't should be more helpful/consistent w/ licenses and zoning (as a member of a small theater company the city of chicago just shut down, i'm more than familiar w/ this particular pain)
    • gov't should make it easier for small business and the self-employed to get healthcare
    • gov't should improve retirement plans for small business owners and the self-employed
     

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