just got my macmice BT mouse (aluminum)

Discussion in 'Product Recommendations/Reviews' started by r6girl, Oct 4, 2004.

  1. Administrator/Editor

    r6girl

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    #1
    so, i had pre-ordered the macmice BT mouse since i was getting more and more tired every day of my apple BT mouse with no scroll wheel or 2nd button. it came in the mail today, a few days earlier than expected (they stated it would ship on or around 10/5, but i assumed it would ship on 10/5 at the earliest)!

    i got the aluminum version - it looks nice and to my eyes in normal afternoon daylight, it's a good match with my powerbook. it was a piece of cake to pair up, as expected. the "feel" of the mouse is not meeting my expectations (in my first few minutes of use - this could change as i get used to it). a few things:

    • the scroll wheel rolls smoothly, with no "click" feel or sound. this had been described in the macmice product overview, but it's a little unnerving as every other scroll mouse i've used provides some tactile feedback. i find i scroll "too fast" without any tactile feedback, but i could get used to it and like it just fine after a while.
    • it's not as heavy and solid-feeling as the apple mouse. in fact, the plastic casing "lifts" toward the front, apparently because of the way the plastic is split to make the two buttons (so it's not firmly anchored to the bottom of the mouse like the apple BT mouse is).
    • it's lighter than the apple BT mouse (both compared with batteries inserted). but this is something that i can get used to.

    oh, one more thing. it's easy to click both buttons at the same time - i find i must lift my other fingers from the mouse because it's so easy to put pressure on the whole thing versus just the button i'm targeting. this is mostly evident with the right button where i usually use my middle finger and leave my first finger on the left button. probably just laziness on my part, plus the fact that i've been used to the apple one-button mouse and never had to worry about pressing more than one button at a time.

    it looks exactly as pictured in the web site, so no issues there. i'll have to see what it's like after using it for a while to see if i do get used to it in relation to the apple mouse...

    marianne
     
  2. thread starter Administrator/Editor

    r6girl

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    #2
    uh-oh. it's also skipping a bit. could be a show-stopper if it's not fixable...

    marianne
     
  3. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    #3
    Thanks for the review! I've been curious about it myself, though I'm pretty happy with my MS Starck mouse for now.

    If you get a chance and have a camera around, could you post a pic? I want to see how it compares with the color of the Powerbook.
     
  4. macrumors G3

    iMeowbot

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    Aug 30, 2003
    #4
    Problems aren't too surprising. Macmice's manufacturing parter, A4 Tech, don't have Bluetooth certification (if they did, they'd be trumpeting it and they aren't).

    [Half expecting Jack to jump in here, I'll just say up front that oh yes they are A4 mice. It's A4's patented scroll wheel, and the corded version uses A4's copyrighted device drivers.]
     
  5. macrumors 603

    aswitcher

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    #5
    Oh, thats not good. Damn. This guy was one of my leading mice...mmm...I think I'll keep waiting for Logitech to do me a BT mouse with a "frikin LAZER" :) Hopefully they are onto that right now. And full MAC OSX support as well thanks ;)
     
  6. macrumors 6502

    Joeytpg

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    #6
    i love my logitech MX510........but i'll get an apple black mouse to keep it in my bag so i can use it when i'm out, and the logitech when i'm in the house :)
     
  7. macrumors G3

    iMeowbot

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    #7
    that would be cool. Hopefully they can manage to build one without the frikin right-handed discomfort grip!
     
  8. thread starter Administrator/Editor

    r6girl

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    #8
    sure. i'll post a pic tomorrow with some natural light - using the flash here in my not-so-well-lit home office is making everything look washed out and is not accurately representing the color.

    marianne
     
  9. macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    Jul 11, 2003
    #9
    Why wait? A BT version will have a cradle/charger that will plug into a USB port and will probably cost more. I see no benefit of a BT over the current MX1000. The MX1000 does have full OS X support or am I missing something?
     
  10. macrumors 601

    Diatribe

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    #10
    Yep you are :D
    You could use the BT version without the cradle when you're on the go with your 'book and only use it to charge the mouse. This is why so many people are waiting for the BT version, or a MX900 version with an on/off switch (me included). But as you pointed out any BT from Logitech will most likely NOT have native OSX support. So it's up to each and every one.
     
  11. macrumors 603

    aswitcher

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    #11
    Thats it...but I want the (educated guess here) MX1100 BT mouse with the frikin "LAZER" to have switch that reads "fire/safety" :D
     
  12. macrumors 6502

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    #12
    I am really hoping that this mouse works well. I am currently using a BT500. I can't stand the size/weight of the microsoft/logitech mice (and for some reason the slow response time). I am getting used to the very small size of the BT500, but it goes through batteries way to fast.

    I have also noticed that at certain times (I still have not figured out all the causes) my mouse movements start to get sluggish. Certain web pages cause this (when I move my pointer through the page, it seems to studder), but most pages are fine.

    Oh well.. I just want a darn BT mouse that is a "normal size and weight", and has "normal" usb response. Oh, and a long battery life. And while we are at it, make it cheap :)

    Kimo
     
  13. macrumors G3

    iMeowbot

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    #13
    I'll just put in a word for Wacom tablets as a compromise. The tablet is wired, but the pen and mouse are free. The mouse moves in the right directions even if your hand turns, and switching between the mouse and pen (even if you're not using it for drawing) gives your hand a rest from being in the same position for too long.

    If at all possible, try out a few before buying. A bigger surface isn't necessarily better, it depends a lot on how you use it. The smallest might even be what you want if the pen becomes a full-time mouse replacement.
     
  14. macrumors 6502

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    NYC & Baltimore
    #14
    I gotta say that I can't stand that wacom mouse. I have a 6x8 intuos and I find the response to be a little funny feeling, not to mention that the mouse only works when it's over the tablet itself- in other words...I use the pen often and keep the wacom mouse in a drawer. The pen is amazing though- what a great device.

    As for stuttering and such, I'm starting to wonder if it's the bluetooth firmware or apple driver rather than specific mice. My apple pro BT mouse is stuttery and occasionally even lags...definitely not my go to for photoshop work- that's why I use the wacom though. I kind of feel like Apple pushed the BT thing without fully explaining that it's not as good accurate as corded/USB- I assumed from the way it was being marketed that it was essentially a replacement for a corded mouse with the only drawback being battery usage. Not to mention that BT doesn't work sometimes (like when booting up from software restore disk to repair permissions) which means I've got to open up my damn powerbook from clamshell mode and use the freakin' powerbook mouse and keyboard when I've got a 120 bucks of useless BT gear sitting there unusuable.

    So anyway, I hope that when the next BT update comes out, we'll all see improvements.

    So all in all do you consider the macmice BT mouse "worth it"...at least compared to the apple pro mouse? I'm thinking of selling mine and getting one...
     
  15. macrumors 6502

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    #15
    Does anyone have any information regarding Logitech's ongoing support for Bluetooth? I guess it doesn't really matter to me (i have a MX900), but do they plan to pursue Bluetooth in the future, or is it pretty much dead??
     
  16. thread starter Administrator/Editor

    r6girl

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    #16
    okay. i didn't get a chance to take pictures in regular daylight, so i've put the not-so-good pictures i took last night using the flash indoors. check out my idisk site to see them: http://homepage.mac.com/m.schultz/files_to_share/

    um, i'd link them here, but couldn't find a way to do that quickly. could anyone provide directions on how to get the pictures to show up as part of my post?

    marianne
     
  17. macrumors 601

    Diatribe

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    #17
    Now this is the question. If you can answer this a whole lot of people will fall to your knees. :D
     
  18. macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #18
    Bah, they should support BT.

    We need another review of this mouse by a user here. I really need to move away from USB. I think that by plugging and unplugging my USB mouse all the time, the port is going to fall out or something. Not all USB plugs fit USB ports perfectly well. Some seem to fit better than others, and mine seems a bit tight...

    Anyway, I've been waiting for this mouse for a while, and now it's finally here. :)
     
  19. macrumors 68000

    wPod

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    #19
    er more on topic of the mouse BT . . . i got mine as well, a couple days before the expected ship date. i think its great. its everything ive been looking for in a mouse. BT (so i can use the internal BT on my PB) no dock or charger or anything to get in the way, just a simple mouse with 3 buttons and an on/off switch!

    as for tracking etc i think it works fine. but i also have the 'clicking-both-buttons' problem. this is what i found on the macmice FAQ page :

    (hmm attached a pic the x shows where to click and where not to click)

    here is a link to the site http://www.macmice.com/faq.html#TheMouse

    but i am re-learning how to use a mouse to avoid clicking both buttons at once. its kina annoying, but i still like the mouse. ive already taken the mouse apart trying to re-engineere it so i dont click both buttons but so far all my ideas require a new shell for the mouse and i dont have access to such plastic molding devices as i would need for that.

    <edit> oh yeah, one other thing. i really like the smoothe scroll wheel. i had to go adjust the speed of it in system prefs. but once that was adjusted properly i think it feels a LOT better than scroll wheels that click!
     

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  20. macrumors regular

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    #20
    For the two of you who have recieved yours, I am getting so anxious. I pre-ordered mine on the 23rd of September and to know one of you is in Dallas I keep checking the mail hoping it will be in there! Im quite anxious and looking forward to it since the mouse I have now is too old school. Keep the reviews coming if you have any more insight or news.
     
  21. macrumors 6502

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    Oct 6, 2004
    #21
    Well first of all, logitech has full mac os x support for all their mice.

    Second, I have no idea why everyone is so infatuated with BT. If you think about, having a BT mouse makes no sense. If you do any detailed work in photoshop or gaming, then you need your mouse to have no latency. For most people this means corded mice only.

    However, logitech does have their fast RF technology which operates at a high enough frequency where there is no lag. Mouse that use this are the MX700 and MX1000. If you look at their MX900 (same as MX700 but with BT) the mouse lags significantly. Same is true with the apple Bt moues or any BT mouse for that matter.

    So, I guess I am saying give up BT and get a real mouse (like me, I just picked up the MX1000, its amazing)
     
  22. macrumors 6502

    quidire

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    #22
    No, no they do not. Go check logitech's site, and you'll notice that none of their BT mice are officially supported under Macs. The reason is that their tolerances exceed Apples for frequency variance, amplitude variance, etc. I don't know if they are exceeding the BT spec, or if Apple is extra-strict or what.

    The MX900 is specifically incompatible with Mac OS X. I would say that this is why the MX900 has much more lag than the Apple BT or any of the others that are stated to be Mac-compatible.

    There are two issues you conflate: resolution and latency. WRT resolution, that is entirely dependant on the sensor type. The MX1000 does have a higher resolution than any other optical mouse for now, but this is not a wired vs BT vs RF issue.

    All mice have latency. The only difference between an electric pulse running up a cord and a EM wave heading from the mouse to the receiver is really the extra distance the signal travels in the pre-process and post-process DAC and transmit/receive circuitry, in theory. Interfereance is what causes any meaningful difference in latency. (the extra distance that signal is covering circuit-wise is irrelevant, really)

    Compatible BT vs RF (2.4 gHz Bluetooth standard vs proprietary RF, usually 900 mHz)
    1. Laptop owners want wireless mice without a dongle; there is no RF standard, thus no built-in RF adapter
    2. Latency is a non-issue in photoshop, or really any application outside of gaming.
    3. iMac + BT mouse / keyboard = design coup
    4. BT and RF suffer from interfereance. Any 900 mHz interfereance and an RF mouse will lose precision. Any non-WiFi presence in the 2.4 gHz range and a BT mouse will have the lag that annoys you so much.

    Without interfereance, any well-designed mouse has latency that is easily low enough for gaming; network latency is slower thus any online game you can't possibly have lag due to your mouse. The latency is not additive; you generally are acting upon the mouse in response to a picture that is at least 115ms old (the average best-latency in the North American portion of the Internet). If your mouse takes 60ms (I have no real numbers on BT latency, but its less than 60ms for certain!) to get your input to the CPU, it doesn't matter so long as when the game updates, your action is waiting there, ready to be included in the new cycle's recalculation of location and status.

    Now supposedly WiFi does not cause interfereance w/ BT; while they are both 2.4 gHz, the specs were designed with each other in mind. I don't know how true this turns out to be in practice. I know old versions of the drivers for Apple BT module and old firmware for Airports used to lead to Airport vs keyboard/mouse conflicts... supposedly this has been fixed through tighter tolerances... I know at the time other BT mice did not suffer from this problem, and I know that Apple has said it has addressed this issue since.

    Final thought: The most noticeable reason many of us get irritated w/ wireless mice is that they have a power-save mode they enter too readily; ignore the mouse for a little while and it will have to snap out of stand-by and then report your input to the computer. That latency is truly noticeable and aggravating. It is an issue that is manufacturer specific, and fairly zero-sum with the issue of power longevity. (perhaps add in a third axis for battery weight ;) )
     
  23. thread starter Administrator/Editor

    r6girl

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    #23
    a few more comments...

    so, now that i've a bit more time with the macmice mouse, i have a few more comments...

    - i find that it takes longer to "wake up" than the apple BT mouse. it probably adds up to a total of 10 more seconds, but it can be a bit maddening! :D
    - it does jump as well - not horribly, but usually when i least need it to do so (when hovering over a button/link among many when the wrong choice would be a pain to deal with). i never noticed any skipping at all with my apple mouse, so this is disappointing, since it's clear that making a non-skipping mouse is possible.
    - i'm getting used to the smooth scrolling wheel. i've adjusted the speed and it works well.
    - the "lifting" of the front of the mouse i'd mentioned before still bothers me. i will occasionally lift the mouse to move it to another part of the mousepad to have more room to maneuver, and it just feels flimsy. apple avoided this by placing two "solid spots" (where the bottom of the mouse actually extends to the sides of the mouse, so you avoid lifting the button portion), but macmice did not do this.
    - it is nice to have 2nd button - contextual menus are my friend. i'm still on the fence about whether or not the flimsiness and jumpiness/skipping issues will drive me back to the apple mouse, though.

    wpod - thanks for the link to the macmice faq to help with the multiple clicking issue. it is just a matter of being more mindful of how you click, so i'm concentrating more on that. i also noticed in their faq that they comment on the skipping and jumping, going so far as to state that they've heard of the issue many times but will not send a replacement mouse since it's usually a function of the user's set-up and sending a new mouse doesn't fix that. you'd think they'd key into as a quality issue then, non? again, if my apple BT mouse doesn't skip, making a non-skipping mouse is possible, right? given that, i'm a bit sorry i paid $69 for this one - the same price as the apple one (albeit without a 2nd button and scroll wheel) that is of higher quality...

    marianne
     
  24. macrumors 68000

    wPod

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    #24
    i agree with the 'lifting' it feels a bit flimsy at times :-/ i dont know how it compares to the apple BT b/c i never got that (dont like 1 button) i havent had any problems with jumping though. but the first thing i did when i got it was updated my BT drivers from apples site (even though software update said i had the most recent) dont know if that made a difference or not.

    as for the smooth scrolling wheel - im noticing something od, maybe i never noticed it before. the scrolling goes the same distance all the time. on a mouse pointer if you move your mouse slowly for .5 inches it moves .5 inches on the screen (made up the numbers as example) if you move your mouse quickly for .5 inches then the pointer moves 2 inches! do all scroll wheels not have the same sort of curve? (i move 1/4 turn slow and the webpage moves 7 lines then move 1/4 turn quickly and the page still only moves 7 lines) er if that makes sense. maybe it is just something od i noticed b/c of the smoothness and it was still like that with my old mouse (too lazy to get it out hook it up and check)
     
  25. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    #25
    I'm glad to see some first hand reviews on this mouse, I've been thinking about getting one. I want to know before I buy ANY optical mouse though if it will work on a wood desk with a glass plate top. You can see the wood through the glass, it's just there for looks but I didn't know if that would screw up the optical sensors. Thanks in advance!
     

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