Kevin Cooper: Execution should be cruel and unusual

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by splashman, Feb 14, 2004.

  1. splashman macrumors 6502

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    #1
    This story is making me as mad as I ever get.

    Kevin Cooper was a convicted burglar, kidnapper and rapist. In 1983, he escaped a minimum-security prison in California. Around midnight one Saturday night, he broke into the home of the Ryen family, which happened to be near his hideout. Using a machete, hatchet and ice pick, he brutally killed father Frank, mother Peggy, 10-year-old daughter Jessica, and 11-year-old Christopher Hughes, best friend of 8-year-old Joshua Ryen. This innocent little boy woke up to the sound of screams, got out of bed, and in the dark, tripped over the dead body of his sister in the hallway. He was then slashed in the throat, smashed in the head with a machete, and suffered ice-pick wounds to his back. He was found approx. 11 hours after the attack, still pressing his hand to the throat wound, lying near the naked and mutilated body of his mother.

    Joshua barely survived. Each of the bodies suffered 30-50 separate knife and machete wounds. Blood had splattered all over the walls, and the carpet was soaked with it. The father of Christopher Hughes discovered the gruesome scene when he became concerned that his son hadn't come home after church that morning.

    Can you imagine being in that father's shoes? Can you imagine what lasting effects that boy has suffered? Can you imagine what it was like in the last moments of life for those poor victims? No! I can't either! It makes me sick to my stomach just to think about it.

    20 years later, Cooper is still sleazing his way through the justice system, with the help of Lanny Davis, a sleazy lawyer infamous for his sleazy defense of President Bubba Clinton. Cooper narrowly avoided a Feb. 10 execution, thanks to the last-minute intervention of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (of course!) and the U.S. Supreme court.

    I am the father of two young girls. My blood boils at the thought of such a horrendous crime. There MUST be justice. This murderer MUST die. No method of execution is too painful for the piece of genetic trash that did this. For my own sanity, I must believe Cooper will eventually be executed, but unfortunately, he will not suffer as his victims did. And justice for Joshua and all of the victims' families will have come more than 20 years later than it should have.
     
  2. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #2
    Re: Kevin Cooper: Execution should be cruel and unusual

    So go kill him. Play God.

    Just leave his blood off our hands.
     
  3. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #3
    I know the Innocence Project has shown that over 100 of the inmates on Death Row (I believe that is the latest figure) were in fact innocent of the crimes they were convicted of. I also understand there is some doubt about Cooper's guilt - at least enough to make federal courts stay his execution. I don't see how killing someone who might not have done the crime helps at all. In fact I don't see how any execution helps at all, but then I'm against the Death Penalty. If he is guilty he should stay in prison for the rest of his life - killing him will not bring that poor family back. By the way I'm the father of two children as well.
     
  4. splashman thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #4
    Playing God?

    Kevin Cooper played God by ending the life of four innocent people.

    I'm not playing God. I'm asking for justice, under the laws of the land.
     
  5. splashman thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Pre-ordained folly

    Being against the death penalty, you, along with the Innocence Project and most of Hollyweird, will grasp at anything and everything to support your pre-ordained conclusion.

    I am neither for nor against the death penalty. I demand justice, however. Without it, our country is doomed.

    I've looked at everything available on this case. For every question, there are 10 pieces of solid evidence. Cooper is guilty. Period.

    One day I will stand before God and account for everything I've done. In this case, if it was in my hands to mete out justice, I would risk Cooper's blood on my hands.

    Cooper has blood on his hands. If justice is denied, the blood of his victims is on the hands of those who fought against justice. (That means you!)
     
  6. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #6
    Re: Pre-ordained folly

    First, kindly don't tell me what I will "grasp" at along with "Hollyweird" (who the heck is that?) You haven't a clue what I will or won't do, so save the slurs.

    Second, I'm glad you have come to the conclusion that Cooper is guilty. Evidently, the people who make such decisions in the justice system think there is room for doubt. I will accept their judgment over yours without much more proof from you.

    Lastly, I know of no one who thinks justice shouldn't be done in this case. It is obvious that some folks differ from your opinion just what constitutes justice.
     
  7. splashman thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #7
    Re: Pre-ordained folly

    I didn't specify what you were grasping; only that you are obviously grasping at something, if only a misguided belief that "bringing that poor family back" is the only possible justification for execution.

    "Hollyweird" is a reference to the feel-good celebrity morons like Mike Farrell who are organizing the "Save Kevin" rallies. I'm surprised you haven't joined in.

    Yes, it's very obvious your definition of justice is different than mine. Yours is the same as that of the "justice" system that acquitted O.J. Mine is the same as that of the Ryen and Hughes families.
     
  8. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #8
    Re: Playing God?

    And now's your chance to do the same to him. Go kill him.

    You're asking the government to play God for you.
     
  9. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #9
    Re: Re: Pre-ordained folly

    WTF? You're "surprised he hasn't joined in? How the **** would you know the first thing about him, let alone know enough to equate him with "morons"?

    Are you Pro-Life?
     
  10. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #10
    That truly is sickening, I'd support and method of death for this particular person, so long as it was slow, and painful. He deserves all he gets.
    Who care's about all this playing god BS, what he is done is beyond words, and there is (I assume?) absolutely no doubt it was him. So go ahead, play god, and kill this bastard however you like.

    edit: oh, and btw, if/when they do it, I'd like to be there laughing in his face eating pop corn. f**king ******.
     
  11. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #11
    I've encouraged him to do so on his own.

    But not hiding behind the State and cloaking it in notions of "justice." Just one man killing another for revenge. Murder. Be my guest.
     
  12. splashman thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #12
    Re: Playing God?

    Do you know this God of whom you speak?

    That's a rhetorical question, if it weren't obvious. You clearly have no clue what true justice is.
     
  13. splashman thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #13
    Moron alert!

    First you tell me to play God and kill him. Then you tell me I'm hiding behind the state. Interesting chain of logic, that. You sound like you're about to go postal yourself.

    Here's an idea: read my previous posts. "In this case, if it was in my hands to mete out justice, I would risk Cooper's blood on my hands."

    Revenge, eh? Is that what you'd call it if it were YOUR family laying in pools of their own blood?
     
  14. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #14
    splashman, my suggestion is that you need some way to deal with all the anger you have about this case. Talk to someone, a priest, a psychiatrist, a friend - but this amount of anger is not healthy.

    If you want a rational debate about this case or about the death penalty then come back some time when you don't feel the need to call strangers names and accuse them of things you don't know anything about. I'll be here and will gladly have that reasoned debate. Good luck.
     
  15. splashman thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #15
    Ha ha. Run away, run away!!!!!

    If you cannot feel anger about this case, you're the one that's ripe for the shrink's couch.

    Sickening.
     
  16. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #16
    I think you are proving my point.
     
  17. zapp macrumors regular

    zapp

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    #17
    Speaking of the Justice system

    First of all they just stayed the execution, they didn't release him. I believe they wanted dna testing on the hair or something. Now are justice system is there to protect the innocent, and punish the guilty. And capital punishment is final, so i think we should be certain of guilt. So the stay just shows me that are justice system is working.
     
  18. splashman thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #18
    You suggested a reason why I might need a trip to a psychiatrist. I suggested a reason why you might.

    Which point am I proving?

    Give me a break. Either come down from your ivory tower or go away, as you already claimed you would.
     
  19. splashman thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #19
    Re: Speaking of the Justice system

    20 years and counting, dude. This is working?

    I've done a huge amount of reading on this. The hair is one of many, many stalling tactics. You should see some of Davis' petitions. Included among them is the claim that death by lethal injection is cruel and unusual.

    Read about it. Please.
     
  20. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #20
    Every time there is a case of some horrific murder, like the recent case of the young girl in Florida, or now the Kevin Cooper execution it seems that their are those on these boards who need to vent their spleen about how they would like to kill the accused personally. I have every sympathy for the many, many of us who feel for the victims of these horrible crimes and most especially sympathy for the victims themselves. However, the turning of forums into virtual lynch mobs, or at least the attempt to, is more of an example of the powerlessness we all feel in trying to prevent such crimes.

    What is needed is a real striving for justice, and I'm afraid justice in not about impotent rage. It is about reasoned action to protect society, not the cry for blood. Justice implies the need to make sure that the State punishes only the guilty. Justice demands that we measure the punishment of society to what is not cruel and unusual. For those reasons, I'm against the death penalty. If Cooper is guilty, as I said before, I have no problem with him spending the rest of his life in a cell.
     
  21. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #21
    I fail to see how killing a person will bring justice. If that is justice I don't want it.

    That is like hitting a child who hit another child to tell them that hitting is wrong. :rolleyes:

    In situations such as these there is no justice that can be done. Assuming the man is actually guilty for committing those murders, murdering him isn't going to do anyone any good. It will not bring closure, just emptiness and confusion for why murdering him didn't bring a feeling of justice.

    Capital Punishment is not justice it is revenge. It is evil.

    *shudders at the thought of the government murdering its citizens under any circumstances*
     
  22. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #22
    I wish I had read your statement before posting my own. When the little girl from San Diego met with a similar fate to the one in Florida a few years ago my anger and helplessness led me to say "I'd make an exception for him" (meaning I'd sentence him to death). I of course realize that that is my emotions speaking, my feelings of helplessness and anger about the situation.

    Anyway, eloquently said, Sayhey.
     
  23. numediaman macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    I come this from a different angle -- I see this issue as a question of limited, or unlimited, government power. I don't wish to give the government the power to administer the death penalty.

    I also want them to run a balanced budget (with wiggle room), not to intrude into the bedrooms of its citizens, to follow the constitution when it comes to waging war (Congress must "declare" war), etc.

    Back to the death penalty: trying to administer "justice" is always difficult. Is the death penalty justice for this guy? Maybe drawing and quartering is more just. But we all recognize that there are limits to what we will allow government to do in the name of justice (and in our name). I draw the line at life and death. Many, obviously, do not.
     
  24. Krizoitz macrumors 6502a

    Krizoitz

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    #24
    Re: Playing God?

    First, no one here is saying that the murder of those four people is anything but a terrible horrible awful evil. No one. So stop acting like we have no compassion for the situation.

    Second, while you seem completely convinced that he is guilty, what if (for the sake of argument only, i don't know one thing about this case) he wasn't guilty? In this case I understand that that might not be true, but lets say for the sake of argument it was. Ok so he isn't guilty and they kill him. Isn't that just as wrong?

    That is the reason why the death penalty takes so long, because if it didn't the chances that you might kill someone who is innocent are too high. How do you make up for that? You can't make them alive again.

    Frankly I think the death penalty is a terrible idea. Not just because I don't like the idea of killing in order to punish killing. And not only because I don't think it works as a deterent. Mostly because of what I said above, you can't take it back. So why don't we just lock him up in a room with no contact to the outside, solitary confinement, whatever AND IGNORE HIM. He wants noteriety, he wants to be known, and the best thing to do would be to just forget he even existed, let him grow old and die, in prison.

    Killing this many won't bring back those people. Killing him isn't justice, its vengence, there is a difference, I suggest you look it up splashman.

    You can accuse me of being insensitive and what not all you want. But I think that the people who make these decisions shouldn't be merely swayed by anger. If that is how you think things should be you are living in the wrong era and in the wrong country. Better to have a hundred guilty men escape the death penalty than an innocent man be put to death.
     
  25. vwcruisn macrumors regular

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    #25
    Theres a similar thread going on in the current events regarding the death penalty and the girl who was abducted and killed in florida.


    link
     

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