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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by DZ/015, Mar 15, 2007.
I hope this bastard swings, just like Saddam. I like how he compares himself to G. Washington.
Although I don't doubt he had some involvement, I'm suspicious of this confession. After four years of secretly being transported across the globe by the CIA and several months in Guantanamo, I don't know whether you can consider anyone to be in a fit state of mind to genuinely know what they are confessing to. It smacks of confession by torture, in which case it's worthless as testimony.
Also we're expected to take the word of the Pentagon that he did actually confess and it's not just porpaganda.
I have my doubts too!
So you've no problem or reservations with the process to get the confession? Convinced beyond reasonable doubt?
[sarcasm]oh how absolutely brilliant. Now that we have him, there will be no more terrorism! Yay![/sarcasm]
Terrorist organisations are just like our own governments. When one goes, there is always going to be another to take their place.
And as of late, the relentless killings of thousands of innocent people is becoming more of a similarity; the terrorists are slowly getting closer to the hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq.
I saw this on the news today. I think they said KSM has been held for 3.5 yrs in Guantanamo Prison. Without a sentence. Is that not a breach of human rights? Sure, this man may have been involved in killing hundreds of people, but he is still a person. GWB is responsible for the deaths of several hundred thousand people, but i don't hear people saying they want him to swing.
I'll start if you like. George, Dick and Tony all deserve the firing squad as far as I'm concerned.
Or at the very least, a war crimes trial in The Hague.
Firing squad please.. a war crimes trial will simply give them minimum punishment, with all their power to corrupt..
They could have their testicles tied to the highest point of the Eiffel Tower while having massive non-lethal ants biting their flesh apart, but i don't think that would pay for the tortures they have committed to millions of people, whether directly or indirectly.
I really hope the current line of politicians in the major countries (US, UK, to a lesser extent Australia) are looked upon with disgust in the future. They deserve it.
Muderers are murderers, he is no different then the next one and all have no place on our planet.
You don't need to shoot them just let them rot in jail, and think about what they did for the rest of their lives. or at least someone needs to start trying to impeach Bush, not that Cheney would be any better though.
I am suspicious of this confession also. I am sure that it happened, but I think that it may have been forced by tourture.
I won't go as far as my fellow posters, but I will say I agree with the doubt. Even if it was true (and I'm thinking it partially is), he couldn't be convicted, at least not in a real court, because all he would have to do is claim he was tortured and start saying he was innocent. Even if he wasn't. People probably wouldn't believe him, but it's reasonable doubt, and we'd have no one to blame but the prosecutors, in this case the current administration, for dropping the ball and not being able to make a good enough case. Not to mention the fact that this doesn't help anything against the current struggle, doesn't make the case for Gitmo (had we done things right, actually doing some police work to build a case, we'd have known about this years ago), and the others (also?) responsible still walk free while we continue mucking around in a country that had nothing to do with the attacks.
But I'm sure right wing talking heads will use this as further proof we need to hold people there (even if they're innocent), torture people more (even if they give us false confessions that don't help us any), and who knows what else so we can satiate our bloodlust and kill him in some other kangaroo court that will just turn him into a martyr, creating more people who hate us. Including some of us, who are losing more and more faith in the American system, while the same people who are screwing it up tells us that we aren't patriotic enough. Yay us.
Boy, that would be a short trial. Human rights violations. Check. Gassing the Kurds. Check. Violate 17 UN resolutions. Check. Invade neighboring country, get repelled and then violate peace agreement. Check. Drain swamps of the marsh arabs. Check. Convince everyone you're working on weapons of mass destruction whether you are or not. Check.
On GW's side... Commander in Chief. Check. Authorized by congress. Check.
May I refer you to this comment above?
Cute phrase that might go over good at Grateful Dead concerts, but in the real world we want leaders that protect us from others. No country ever became great or retained its greatness by rolling over rather than fighting when necessary.
Killing in defense of one's country is not murder. Look up the definition.
But inventing reasons and lying about invading a country is not a justified war and therefore it is murder or genocide!
Inventing reasons? Just how many UN resolutions can a country violate before it's considered a reason? How times can they shoot at the planes enforcing the UN resolutions is OK? Is it a nice precedence to set to allow a leader to do whatever he damned well pleases after signing a unconditional surrender after starting the war in Kuwait?
What part of history are you reading where this type of stuff is acceptable or successful? If anything both Clinton and Bush should apologize for not acting sooner and more harshly.
DHM used to be a Republican. Even voted for GW. Nice try though.
Would have been nice if they could have protected us against Bin Laden... who's still out there BTW.
Rome, France (under Napolean), Germany (under Hilter)... all fell because they went from defending themselves to being conquerors. You want to end up like them? I don't.
Remind me again how Iraq was a threat to us, and more so than Afghanistan, Pakistan, NK... Or how the things Saddam did in the past, thought awful, are somehow worse than the current situation in Darfur we're doing almost nothing about. Or the current situation we've created in what used to be Iraq.
No, killing in self defense is not murder... but what does that have to do with what we're doing right now?
Also remember Saddam was put in place by the US.
Nobody minded what he did when he was on our side.
actually he already said that he got tortured by the cia numerous times during being held
about UN resolutions: there is a reason why the US is breaking few of them: they are vetoing them in the first place
for example the US vetoed 8 resolutions alone demanding the US to stop their trade embargo against cuba, despite being voted for with a score of 176 to 1 in the general assembly (from 92 to 99)
and again at 2003
while the soviet union is still ahead in vetos most of those were made before 1970 and mostly just "cause"
also more recently in 2004 the USA vetoed on:
"Production and processing of weapon-usable material should be under international control."
so much for irony
totally USA has vetoed 82 times and 54 times out of this were they alone in vetoing (and 36 vetoes were on resolutions condeming Israel)
now guess how often china vetoed so far: jup 6 times ...
I think your posts are falling on deaf ears here. Although I'm not surprised that a thread about the confession of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has brought about shouts of putting Bush annd Cheney in front of a firing squad.
Put in place? Not even remotely true. When Saddam came to power Iraq was if anything a Soviet client state. The US was strongly opposed to Bath rule, and hadn't gotten along with Iraq since the Baghdad Pact days in the 50s. It wasn't until the 80s that the Reagan administration, using "the enemy of the enemy is my friend" logic started ever-increasing funding for Saddam and Iraq in opposition to Iran. We continued to fund him after the Iran-Iraq war, pretty much right up until the invasion of Kuwait.
If Mohammed indeed did what this confession claims, then yes he should swing form the nearest tree. However, I also find it extremely odd that he's confessed to just about every imaginable offense there is. Coercion? I'd bet the farm on it.
Yeah, killing Princess Di was the one that triggered my suspicions
Now he's claimed to have killed Daniel Pearl.. the Wall Street reporter.
Osama looks quite innocent compared to this chap (if all this confession outpouring is, indeed, true)