Kramer, Shmamer, look at Dennis Prager

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Dec 1, 2006.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    (Well, it sort of rhymes. :eek: )

    USA Today

    Okay, so some liberal bloggers are mocking this lunacy, but in my mind this is even worse bigotry than what Michael Richards displayed. His was an unplanned outburst in a moment of anger. This is something Dennis Prager thought about (if you can call it that) and then sat down to write a column.

    Shameful. I knew Prager was an idiot, but now I've lowered him to the status of slimeball.
     
  2. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #2
    I think it's disingenuous for you to compare Michael Richards' actions to Dennis Prager's. They're totally different.

    It's been a long established tradition (rule, even) that all incoming Congressmen and Congresswomen take the oath on the Bible. This has been true even for Jews in Congress... there've been plenty of them, and I've never heard of any of them objecting to the use of a Bible, even though Jews, like Muslims, regard the Old Testament as holy writ, but not the New Testament. So, if a full Bible (Old and New Testaments) is good enough for Jewish representatives, it should be good enough for a Muslim, too.
     
  3. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #3
    Um, no... unless you were fine with swearing on a Quran in court. To swear upon a document you consider to be invalid means nothing. Might as well replace it with a Batman comic.
     
  4. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #4
    Fine, let's do that. If I ever get elected to office, I will demand to take the oath on a copy of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, since that's my favorite book.

    Just had an idea: Let's make them all swear on a copy of the US Constitution.
     
  5. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #5
    Fine by me. I think that oaths are archaic anyway. They imply that a politician's word means anything. ;)
     
  6. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #6
    That seems like an pretty appropriate idea.
     
  7. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #7
    Do you have anything to back this up? I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to see the history behind the use of the bible to swear in incoming congressmen.
     
  8. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #8
    I was listening to Al Franken, and he said that Congressmen are merely sworn in by raising their hand, and that it is done as a group. He says some will hold their hand on a Bible while doing it, but that it's not required or even all that common.

    Anyway, what's the moral reason for making someone swear by something they don't believe in?
     
  9. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #9
    I swear, this U.S. tradition comes closer to being based on gleanings from Boyz II Men than it does from any Judeo-Christian source.

    St. Matthew 5:33-37:
    33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
    34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
    35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
    36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
    37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

    It would be nice to hear just “yea, yea;” or “nay, nay” from a politician though I doubt they’d be able. It's usually "neigh, neigh".
     
  10. bemylover macrumors regular

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    #10
    Luke 4
    [5] And the devil took him up, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time,
    [6] and said to him, "To you I will give all this authority and their glory; for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will.

    This means all governments are appointed by devil, so they are evil anyways ;)
     
  11. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #11
    Other than a text out of context = pretext, I don't get your point. :confused:
     
  12. bemylover macrumors regular

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    #12
    It was a little off-topic comment on this "for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

    On-topic I agree to you, swearing on Bible is wrong for both, Christians-for Bible tells them not to do so, and non-Christians as it is not their holy book. I think they should not swear at all :)
     
  13. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #13
    You should grab your bible and read the book of Luke. Its got the Christmas story in it.
     
  14. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #14
    Okay, I get what you meant, now.

    My point was that Prager's claim that Keith Ellison being sworn in to office on the Quran would result in the "undermining of American civilization" is both uninformed and hypocritical in its claim.

    Thanks. I'll check it out.
     
  15. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #15
    [M*A*S*H] "I peeked at the end. The Devil did it." [/M*A*S*H]
     
  16. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #16
    That's actually not true. It's for show only. Tradition for the photo ops, but no where near a rule.

    Again, not true. Linda Lingle, a Republican, was sworn in on the Torah (Tanahk actually). There are other examples out there of people using other religious texts, or their own Bibles, or none at all. You are swearing on the religious text to uphold the Constitution, not the other way around. It would be unConstitutional (and kinda ironic) to infringe on someone's religious freedom to make them swear on a Bible. It's just a formality that can be disputed, using an affirmation instead.

    First Glen Beck wants him to prove he isn't a terrorist, now Dennis Prager wants to spit on the Constitution, and you're a Nazi if you don't agree. :confused: Doesn't work like this kids. Just another way of stirring the pot for the ever shrinking base. Disgusting. Yeah, um, the rest of us prefer freedom for everyone. Everyone.

    Yes, even Muslims. :rolleyes:
     
  17. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #17
    I would like a Playboy ;) Since thats my favorite document
     
  18. eva01 macrumors 601

    eva01

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    #18

    I would so swear upon War Drums (Batman Comic) or maybe The Long Halloween
     
  19. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #19
    clay shows us the perils of knee-jerk gut reaction in response to an appeal to emotion.
     
  20. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #20
    From one of solvs' links:
    By that logic, of course, Christians are deviating their allegience from the Constitution to Jesus.

    Somebody please explain to me why the former is bad, but the latter is good. And I better not hear any b.s. about America being a "Christian nation".
     
  21. eva01 macrumors 601

    eva01

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    #21
    Because freedom of religion is a crock
     
  22. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #22
    You mean, you can be any religion you want in this country, as long as it's Christian?
     

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