LAN or WAN - OSX or MSCE or CCNA?

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by eclipse525, Sep 12, 2003.

  1. eclipse525 macrumors 6502a

    eclipse525

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Location:
    USA, New York
    #1
    Ok here's the scenerio... I have a friend<wink..wink> who is a Graphic Designer and worked with Mac most of his life but does has a fairly good handle with Windows. He's thinking of switching careers<long story> and the Tech/IT arena appeals. Although he's a designer, he's a geek at heart so is pretty up on the IT end of it. Does anybody have any suggestions as far as the direction he should head. Some people say get your MSCE and focus on LAN. There's alot more opportunity. Others say, get your CCNA and focus on WAN, it's a lot more respected and the money's better. Now, a few people had also suggested, just go and get your OSX cert and stay in familar territory. I'm(oops HE!) is not sure which area shines brighter as far as Money, Longevity/Advancement.

    ~e
     
  2. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #2
    i am a pc techie and i have heard the arguments both ways

    before the certifications were bigger than degrees, only the mcse/mcp and cne/cna (certified novell engineer/associate) were the tickets to money and job security

    but now, there are a whole lot of good paths to take now that certifications rule the high tech field...while novell is not so hot these days, the microsoft certifications, of which there are many, are still good...cisco is hot(sometimes), you can get security certs, design certs, and there is always the industry backed CompTIA A+ certification

    microsoft has the entry level MCP, the mid level MCSA, and the top level MCSE as their common certs, but also for programmers, they have many programming related MCPs and their top level MCSD and MCSP...cisco has the entry level CCNA, the mid level CCNP, and the top level CCIE, but for designing networks the entry level is the CCDA and the mid level is the CCDP...just among those two companies, it's an alphabet soup

    as for mcse lan vs. cisco wan, the cisco is harder but right now in the recession post dot.com, the microsoft certs are more relevant with the times

    cisco was at its absolute hottest during dot.com which used the internet, the world's largest wan, and sales were 12 times what is was after the crash...people were buying routers and switches for their garage based dot.com while investors were everywhere...people sold their second cars for them...it was electric in san jose and silicon valley

    if the times get good for dot.com again, having the cisco certs will be a major plus...a good thing for entry level is to get the entry level MCP and the CCNA to get one's foot in the high tech door...from there the employer can often fund the extra schooling for an advanced certification, or just give you the higher resposibility and pay as you learn the ropes...too many businesses just want the work done and don't need techies with too many letters behind their names...i know of a techie who could do his job on just one certification, but he got nine of them just for kicks...his wife and i have suggested that he contact the guinness book of world records for that one

    dot.com will come back and cisco will be worth more than miscrosoft...again...BUT IT IS ANYONE'S GUESS WHEN THAT WILL HAPPEN:p
    (notice i didn't say "if" because the internet and dot.com is too good of a concept to just die on the vine)
     
  3. eclipse525 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    eclipse525

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    Aug 5, 2003
    Location:
    USA, New York
    #3
    Thank you so much for your post. That's the general idea i'm getting from people throughout the industry. First get my 'A+ and Network+' certs and then get the MSCA & CCNA. At that point it should get my foot in the door(hopefully) and from there I would get the others with the company paying the bill.

    Do you have any opinions on specializing on OSX server based systems? I know the market is REAL small for that but do you see any growth or any room in that area??

    Thanks!
    ~e
     
  4. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #4
    i wish there was work on just osx server stuff, but it seems very unlikely

    i think one can find work as an apple certified desktop tech though

    when the economic times are bad or neutral, the desktop techs make more money, but when the times are booming, the server side techs make the better money

    and pay between whether the hardware side techs make more or the programmers, that is also a fluctuating dynamic...with the glut of overseas programmers right now, hardware is the safer field

    visual basic magazine's annual salary survey really breaks it all down

    during dot.com, the high school grads in high tech made more money than the college grads in the salary survey, but people like the teenage shawn fanning and other young entrepreneurs tipped the scale in the direction of extremely young whiz kids over the older college grads

    also the younger people without a large investment in a college degree and related work history in tow and student loans were more free to be innovative and just make startups and move to silicon valley on a whim so for a short while, that made many milllionaires on paper...in san jose at its height, 200 people a day became freshly minted millionaires and many of them, without degrees, still lived at home with mom and dad

    some power brokers in dot.com startups would not hire people over 30 or people with degrees just to go against the grain and thumb their noses at the bastions of the eastern establishment who earn their money the old fashioned way

    but now that the internet whiz kid, or out of luck uneducated garage computer genius is not making the headlines, the brick and mortar middle level techs with degrees make a better average salary than the high school grads in the tech field...so now for over two years, college degrees and a large time investment in brick and mortar don't look like a bad idea after all...and stock portfolios with less than 10 percent in high tech seem just right:p
     
  5. eclipse525 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    eclipse525

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    #5
    That's what i thought. I start with Networking but eventually go into Security or Design but the Design is what i'm kinda favoring. We'll see where this journey takes me.

    ~e
     
  6. whfsdude macrumors 6502a

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    Jan 20, 2002
    Location:
    Washington DC USA
    #6
    I'm getting my CCNA right now, well in a class for it. If you like computers, it's a fun class so I suggest you take it :)
     
  7. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #7
    good luck with your travels in the certification world...it's a lot of fun

    i took two ccna classes and a comptia a+ class just for fun and knowledge without having gone for those certifications...every litle bit helps whether you take classes, get certified, or get degreed

    in the end, the best education is just simply doing high tech stuff at work for pay or volunteer...you catch the nuances of computers, software, and networks in a way even the best class or textbook won't give you
     
  8. eclipse525 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    eclipse525

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    Aug 5, 2003
    Location:
    USA, New York
    #8

    Did you go straight into your CCNA or did you take any other classes previously to get somewhat prepared?

    What do you guys think of this order for starters.

    1) A+ and Network+
    2) MSCE
    3) CCNA or should I do this one before MSCE??

    Thanks for your input(s)

    ~e
     
  9. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #9
    excellent..from easiest to hardest

    and the CCNA can be followed by the even more advanced CCNP, or cisco certified network professional

    but if you want you can take the 4 test MCSA instead of the longer 7 test MCSE


    ...but realize there are plenty of high paying jobs with just A+, or MCP (windows 2000 or windows xp), or Network+:D
     
  10. eclipse525 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    eclipse525

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Location:
    USA, New York
    #10
    Good to know. I am totally pumped. I'm probably going to start at the end of the month. Very exciting stuff. I'll get the basics and hopefully have the future company i work for flip-the bill for the others.

    ~e
     
  11. monkeydo_jb macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Location:
    Columbia, MO
    #11
    Well, I've got my A+ and just this morning I passed my Network+!
    820 out of 900. It was actually easier than the A+.

    I'm now trying to figure out which one next. I'm really into linux so maybe Linux+.
    However, where I live in mid-Missiouri there aren't many linux positions.
    The CCNA is another option. MCP or MCSA would lead to more jobs, but
    I'm sort of opposed to M$

    Any suggestions or input?



    -jeff
     
  12. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #12
    first, congrats

    mcp and ccna are attainable and those will help

    mcse or mcsa are more than one test and take dedication (some say ccna is harder though even though it's one test), linux+ sounds new to me, but remember that rhce (red hat certified engineer) is an extremely hard certification and most people fail that one

    i know a lot of mac people don't like microsoft and for awhile, some wanted novell or cisco to lead the field of networking and maybe even come up with a real competitor to windows, but microsoft, like cockroaches, outlasted any threats to their hold on the common field of local area networking
     
  13. monkeydo_jb macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Location:
    Columbia, MO
    #13

    Thanks for your input. I always look forward to hearing from you. Probably
    since you were an HR guy and that you've gotten a good long view of the industry.

    Linux+ is fairly new and would be total cake to obtain. I was looking into the MCSA
    and I noticed that one of the electives was getting both the A+ and N+.
    I guess I've got a good start on that then.

    I agree on the RHCE. I've heard it and the CCNA are not easy. While I've been
    working a lot lately w/Cisco routers, the test covers way more.



    -jeff
     
  14. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2000
    #14
    while the certification tests do not cover exactly what you will find in the field, they are closer to the real world than a general computer science or computer engineering degree and that is why these mere certifications bring in the higher salaries than many with just a degree

    a lot of people who have a degree(s) are highly jealous of the certified people who often do not have degrees but get the positions

    my old microsoft teacher had his BSEE in electronic engineering and made really great money fixing and troubleshooting computers for his company...then a few years later the certification industry came in and he got replaced by a high school graduate with a certification...in fact a lot of college grads lost jobs due to the certification workers

    the best plan in the long run is to get certified, work in the field, but also get "some" college degree so you can be put into management since most management likes their CEOs, CIOs, CFOs, etc to have at least a bachelor's degree

    and if you ever leave the IT/IS field, employers won't care too much or even know what A+ or mcse are...but a bachelor's degree is known and respected everywhere and more so outside of the technical fields
     

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