Land of the Free?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by eclipse525, Feb 21, 2004.

  1. eclipse525 macrumors 6502a

    eclipse525

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Location:
    USA, New York
    #1
    The other night of was listening to some guy on TV talking about "AMERICA, Land of the Free" and how we have to protect our freedoms. I actually agree with him up to a point but the only people we have to protect is ourselves from our own Government. We have given them way too much power. Enough to actually methodically take Freedoms away from their own people BUT I won't go into that subject. The thought "Land of the Free" stuck in my head and for a moment, I began to feel grateful for being in a country that Lives and Breathes by this motto. So, now I started to think of all the other poor countries who didn't have that GOD given Freedom BUT the reality is that most of the major countries in this world do have it and then some. If you really think about it, some countries have more Freedom than we do. In fact, many countries take care of their own people better than our own. So, how much better are we really off now a days. It's not like we are in a cold war OR we live in a era of kings and evil dictators(very few).

    What's your take on this whole, "Land of the Free" marketing campaign?



    ~e
     
  2. Krizoitz macrumors 6502a

    Krizoitz

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Location:
    Wakayama, Japan
    #2
    Re: Land of the Free?

    Any country must balance personal liberty with personal safety. We don't allow complete freedom because it would result in anarchy, but we don't want to take away too many freedoms, otherwise we lose what it is that makes us want to be happy and secure.

    The patriot act to me and most people just screams of stepping way beyond that balance point and taking away freedoms with no benefit whatsoever and I will agree completely with you in that respect.

    However I disagree with your following statement:
    Freedom and social programs just don't go together. If America stopped all of its social programs today, no more benefits for anything, but still allowed us freedom of the press, religion, etc. we would still be just as free, some might argue more so because we aren't being forced to pay taxes to support programs we might not want to.

    I'm not saying that would be a GOOD thing, but it wouldn't affect our freedoms.
     
  3. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    toronto
    #3
    it was in the weeks after 9/11 when i was struck by how the vox pops were defining freedom. e.g. the thing continually repeated was how people were willing to give up the freedom of standing in short, quickly moving airport lines.

    this particular aspect of freedom was not discussed in any of my high school social studies programs.
     
  4. Sparky's macrumors 6502a

    Sparky's

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    #4
    (not naming names) at what point do you not realize that you live in a country that allows you to say what you just did? In some of those "other countries" you spoke of speaking out like that against the government mey get you in jail or even worse. I think you may be thinking of the social medicine programs in places like Canada and Great Britain, have you reflected on how much of the average citzen's taxes actually goes for wellfare and medical care? It's appaling to see how other people around the world are paying taxes far beyond what we are just to have "privelages".

    Damn I wish I took typing in school....
     
  5. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #5
    I've watched several "turning points" as to losses of freedoms, over the last 40 or 50 years.

    The most notable effort toward a police state began with the War on (some) Drugs in 1973. "No knock", "arrest the money", etc.

    Knowledge is power, and all governments work dutifully to increase power over the citizenry. Technology gave the NSA the ability to listen in on the world's telephone conversations. Then came 9/11 and a scared Congress passed the War on Terror legislationl, creating a snooper's paradise among other things.

    Governments also gain power from creating fears and promising to protect against them: Pollution, poverty, racism, hate crimes, auto safety, etc. There are obviously many more fears which are touted on a daily basis. While many are real, they are often exaggerated.

    Yeah, we can say most anything we want to, here on the Internet. The government doesn't care, so long as it's ineffectual at making any significant change in the way the daily business of government is done.

    'Rat
     
  6. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Location:
    2nd star on the right and straight till morning
    #6
    rat,

    couldn't of said it better myself.

    but it's funny...if you say this stuff and you're young, people call you paranoid. when you get older, they call you wise.;)
     
  7. eclipse525 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    eclipse525

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Location:
    USA, New York
    #7
    At first you may think of Freedom and Social Programs as separate issues but they do go hand in hand. I believe if the government were do govern for "EveryInterest" instead of "SelfInterest" we'd see things like a basic/solid National Healthcare/Housing and Food programs. Unfortuneately, we don't live in that world and the result is desperate people doing desparate things. Most of the crime and anger in this country is direct result of the powers that be. A person will speak up and cry injustice and when their cries are unheard the mentality changes and now it becomes a "if you can't beat them, join them" in the only way they know or can. In this kinda society, which is the one we are in, you can't have absolute Freedom. You will indeed have total anarchy BUT in a society where you're basics are covered, then you can have all the Freedom without Anarchy. Reason being you eliminate the mentality of "NEED" and replaces with "Abundance". Just my opinion.

    PS- I'm sure there are MANY other issues that contribute to where we are now as a country BUT I feel these are the basics and should start with these, then go from there.



    ~e
     
  8. Sparky's macrumors 6502a

    Sparky's

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    #8
    Simple referral, I would love to post the entire chapter from the book I'm reading, which discusses John Poindexter’s plan to implement what was the IAO (Information Awareness Office) from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency or DARPA project called "TIA" for Total Information Awareness. It scared me to understand the technology that was bing developed by private interests (who's head of boards were GOP bedpartners) that would or will allow the collection of information from every form of communication you can imagine
    If interested the quote comes from Charles Lewis' book "The Buying of the President 2004", page 179, the information I quoted was just a part of the entire story behind Poindexter's idiocy.
    So don't think what we say here is "safe" from prying eyes.
    Sparky
     

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