Latest Chapter in Israeli Mess

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thanatoast, Oct 6, 2004.

  1. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a


    Dec 3, 2002
    Can anyone make sense of this? It's gotten so commonplace it's kinda cliché.

    The UN today put forth a resolution condemning Isreal for sending tanks into a refugee camp to shoot at Palestinians. Of course, this resolution was vetoed by the US.

    So my question: WTF?

    When did it become okay for nations to use heavy artillery, tanks, for goodness' sake, to attack civilians in a refugee camp?

    You know, one day we're gonna have to stop backing Israel to the hilt. They're pulling us deeper into their mess and making us ever more unpopular in the ME. Shoot, I'd wouldn't like it if my neighborhood was raized because a criminal might possibly have lived somewhere nearby.

    Israel is fully capable of taking care of itself, and what's more, I no longer want to be associated with their crimes. These are the people we're taking cues from to combat terrorism? Holy ****. If their way worked, Israel would be the safest country on the planet. Since that obviously isn't true, maybe we should think of trying different methods?

    Am I crazy, or is the world crazy?
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601


    Jul 18, 2002
    a little from column A, a little from column B. :)

    yes, a definite lack of proportion in what the israelis are doing. but they're desperate, because their tactics don't work. so they raise the stakes, but they still don't work.

    i know it's a ****** thing to do to an ally, but i think we have to cut off israel. supporting them is very much on the losing side of the cost/benefit analysis, imo.

    every time i see a picture or video of palestinian kids attacking tanks with rocks, i'm struck by how desperate they must feel, how they have nothing to lose, and how one cannot military defeat such a culture by any means short of genocide.

    so, in israel's case, it's either commit genocide or find another way. until they embark down path B, the US must excuse itself as an ally.
  3. toontra macrumors 6502

    Feb 6, 2003
    London UK
    In my view the US is almost as culpable as Israel itself in these atrocities. Without the unquestioning support of the US (financial and political) there is not much doubt that Israel's "defense" policy would be somewhat different. They are acting as the bully in the playground knowing they have the support of the head teacher.

    Anyone remember Bush and Blair offering the "road map" as collateral for support of their plans for Iraq?
  4. skunk macrumors G4


    Jun 29, 2002
    Republic of Ukistan
    About the same time as it became okay for nations to use heavy artillery, tanks, for goodness' sake, to attack civilians in Fallujah, Baghdad and Najaf, and to carry out high altitude bombing on cities like Belgrade, Kabul, Kandahar, Kunduz, Baghdad (twice), etc, etc. They're just following the example of the "Greatest Nation on Earth"™. Isn't that what they're supposed to do? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
  5. Zaid macrumors 6502

    Feb 17, 2003
    John Pilger wrote an article in the new statesman a couple of weeks ago which delt with the dishonesty with which we in the west 'hold up a one way moral mirror to the world'. Part of the article deals with Palestine. He puts it better than I can

    The last bit about the peaceful protests is particularly interesting and depressing. The rest of the article makes for interesting, if depressing, reading. [John Pilger's Website]

    There was an article in the Guardian a couple of months back (its late, i'll try and find a link in the morning) which states that the british press always mention a corresponding palestinian attack if it mentions an example of Israeli brutality. The same even handedness is of course hardly ever used when mentioning palestinian brutality.

    Found it
    [Guardian Unlimited]
    (yes i know it's a polemic, but he does does raise some interesting points, and backs them up with evidence, which although only anecdotally quoted in the article, comes from a study by the University of Glasgow media group)

    Some Highlights

    Do read the rest of the article, it is very interesting. (link above)

    And i wonder why i'm cynical
  6. Rohan Moore macrumors newbie

    Oct 8, 2004
    Some very reassuring posts and refs here. The degree to which the popular press has so successfully misrepresented the crisis was memorably highlighted by the Liberal Democrats' firing of Jenny Tongue. When a party of the left fires a member for voicing an understanding of the Palestinian plight, out of fear for disenfranchising the British electorate, it's a stark indication of the anti-Palestinian opinion the leading parties see the public as holding.

    Until a large, dedicated and long-term popular movement grows to lobby the five permanent Security Council members to relinquish rights to veto, this situation has little prospect of improving. International law needs to be meaningful, and managed democratically. No other roadmap seems to me to lead to lasting peace.
  7. skunk macrumors G4


    Jun 29, 2002
    Republic of Ukistan
    Yes, that was very telling. Jenny Tonge is my local MP, btw.

    International Law also needs to be adhered to, not bent out of shape to suit the God-given prerogatives of neo-conservative chickenhawks.

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