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rdlink

macrumors 68040
Nov 10, 2007
3,226
2,435
Out of the Reach of the FBI
Don't forget he refused to meet with his father, even though he had actually met him in his place of business. A broken man with a missing piece whom the American public wants to idolize.

"The American public" doesn't want to idolize him. There are those in America (and elsewhere) who would idolize him, and even raise him to near deity status. And there are those who would try to cast him as some sort of anti-christ, and try to pretend like he brought little or no value to the world. Your statement seems to indicate you fall more toward the latter group.

And then there are those, like myself who have taken the time to look at his life objectively, and realize that reality in Steve Jobs' case, like most everyone else in the world lies somewhere in between.

He had a genius about him. Some of it was innate. Some of it was a result of his environment, both as a child and an adult. He also had demons. I believe he worked hard, especially in his later years to understand and exorcise those demons.

But, IMO much of his genius existed in a place that makes most people uncomfortable. When it came to his work, he didn't waste a lot of time and energy trying to coddle people who either didn't have the competence to do the job, or who wouldn't push themselves to do their best work. There is a quote from him that sticks in my mind often, which I will try to describe since I don't have time to look for it. Basically, he was addressing the known trait of his whereby he was blunt, to the point of some people feeling he was mean. He was incredulous that anyone would think this trait mean. He thought that it was disrespectful not to tell someone the truth, no matter how hurtful it might be. He felt that to do otherwise was a form of cheating.

I believe that there are many, many geniuses in the world, some of whom could be the next Steve Jobs. But I also believe that most of them hobble themselves by trying to conform to societal niceties, when their particular form of genius is often stifled by societal restrictions. I am intrigued by the fact that Jobs didn't let himself fall into that trap.

I have a lot of respect for what he did for the world. Does that mean he's the kind of guy I'd want to sit at the bar with and throw back some beers? Absolutely not. But his existence in this world made it a better place, and I find his genius to be a special kind that deserves to be admired and understood.

He was a complex man, who was definitely affected both negatively and positively by his environment, and his reaction to said environment. I realize that there are many who blindly follow him as if he were just a genius, and try to gloss over his many failings. And there are many more, I believe who try to look at his very public mistakes and faults and dismiss his genius because of it.
 

furi0usbee

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2008
1,790
1,381
I don't know what is more outrageous... that she would attempt to do that, or that actors would actually listen to her. If I were in N. Korea or China, this sounds like something I would be on board with.
 

wovel

macrumors 68000
Mar 15, 2010
1,839
161
America(s)!
Don't forget he refused to meet with his father, even though he had actually met him in his place of business. A broken man with a missing piece whom the American public wants to idolize.


Steve talked about all of these things with Isaacson, he clearly wanted them made public. People can say what they want about the final outcome of the book because it was rushed to market. No one has said any of the quotes attributed to Mr. And Mrs. Jobs are inaccurate.

As for the movie, Cook and Jobs have been critical and have said they will never see the movie. People can say what they want, but it is silly to call this movie opportunistic. It was based on a story Steve asked to have made. It has been in development longer than any of the others Jobs movies that were released.

I get that many people close to Steve just don't want to hear about it anymore. It is clear Steve wanted the story told. He could have easily found a writer that would agree to not releasing a movie had he wanted to. He wanted the story told. Without interference from others, the movie would have likely been out over a year ago with a weaker cast. Now the movie will be featured fairly prominently through at least next spring.
 

daftpunker909

macrumors regular
Sep 3, 2012
124
147
I'm sure Jobs's wife has them on speed dial. In fact, I'm sure she had them on conference call while cruising on her $100 million yacht.

Seriously though, all these people (Jobs's wife, Apple execs) are really starting to sound like douches. Who gives an eff? Since when is a Hollywood movie not dramatized? Maybe producers are trying to drum up publicity though.

We should give more credit to Aaron Sorkins for slamming Tim Cook
 

Aluminum213

macrumors 68040
Mar 16, 2012
3,597
4,707
Those who would sit in judgment of Steve Jobs are mystifying to me. First of all, there is no way on earth that you know all of the nuances of private conversations, etc. that occurred over the years.

But more importantly, think about all of the things you have done wrong in your life. Things that perhaps even nobody knows about but you. Think about how embarrassed and guilty you are about those things. Perhaps you're still hiding something you do that you don't want anyone else to know about. The point being that we're all humans. We all do stupid, selfish, hurtful things in our lives. Hopefully we realize the error of our ways, rectify our actions and make amends at some point. Steve was fortunate enough to get that opportunity in regard to Lisa. As is documented in many, many places he later admitted paternity, apologized to Lisa and her mother and took full responsibility for his actions (or lack thereof). Lisa even lived with Steve and Laurene from the age of 14. This quote from Wikipedia is just one documentation:

"Years later, after Steve left Apple, "he apologized many times over for his behavior" to Lisa and her mother and "said that he never took responsibility when he should have, and that he was sorry."[2] After reconciling with her, Lisa wanted to change her name and Steve was happy to do so. Steve legally changed her birth certificate, shifting her name from Lisa Brennan to Lisa Brennan-Jobs.[8] Chrisann credits the change in Steve to the influence of his newly found biological sister, the American author Mona Simpson, who worked to repair the relationship between Brennan-Jobs and Steve"


Don't you think he spent the rest of his life feeling a little bit of pain in his heart every time he looked her in the eyes and realized how he had wronged her? Sure, he did it to himself, but the pain and guilt was still there. Steve was a very bad father to Lisa for the first few years of her life. But he wasn't a monster. If he physically or sexually abused her he would have been a monster. But being a neglectful father, and then realizing it and trying to make up for it does not rise to the level of monster.

In Steve Jobs own authorized biography he was shown to be a cold hearted person who really didn't give a crap about anyone but himself

this movie is just that in visual form, Jobs family/Apple should have just let it happen and move on. The fact they they've tried to squash it and tell actors to pull out has only greatly increased the buzz and hype for this movie

and like I said earlier, Michael Fassbender>>Bale>>DiCaprio, so Lauren Jobs ended up shooting herself in the foot
 

nick42983

macrumors 6502a
May 18, 2009
549
424
Warsaw, Poland
I'm sure Jobs's wife has them on speed dial. In fact, I'm sure she had them on conference call while cruising on her $100 million yacht.

Seriously though, all these people (Jobs's wife, Apple execs) are really starting to sound like douches. Who gives an eff? Since when is a Hollywood movie not dramatized? Maybe producers are trying to drum up publicity though.

Jobs is important to their bottom line (Laurene included). I'm sure all the Apple execs have or will sign non-disclosure agreements about not bad-mouthing Apple or Jobs in an way because it'll hurt the "$brand$"
 

jdoll021

macrumors 6502
The trailer is on the Trailers app. It'll be on iTunes, business is business.

Well, we don't know how the Trailers app culls the trailers. If they do it the way I think (through automated processes) then it would get included no matter what. If they added it of their own volition, then you'd be right and I would question the authenticity of their claims to being principled if they are so willing to sell those principals out.
 

Nuvi

macrumors 65816
Feb 7, 2008
1,099
810
Its a fact that Steve Jobs created a amazing company which in turn created amazing products. However, it seems Steve Jobs was willing to sacrifice everything for the cause including his own child. Make a movie out of that guy and you know what's coming. Lauren Jobs knows that too...
 

rdlink

macrumors 68040
Nov 10, 2007
3,226
2,435
Out of the Reach of the FBI
In Steve Jobs own authorized biography he was shown to be a cold hearted person who really didn't give a crap about anyone but himself

this movie is just that in visual form, Jobs family/Apple should have just let it happen and move on. The fact they they've tried to squash it and tell actors to pull out has only greatly increased the buzz and hype for this movie

and like I said earlier, Michael Fassbender>>Bale>>DiCaprio, so Lauren Jobs ended up shooting herself in the foot

You and I must have read different books. Didn't realize that there were two authorized biographies.

And as far as Apple/Laurene Jobs are concerned I agree in part, and disagree in part. Apple the corporation has done nothing we know about to affect the release of the movie. Tim Cook, when asked a question answered it based on his personal feelings. As is his right.

Laurene Jobs trying to influence actors and studios was bad form, IMO. And if she was so worried about Jobs being portrayed in an unfairly negative light she should have grasped the opportunity to collaborate with the producers. She would have had a far better chance to influence the outcome, and she would have had better authority to criticize the result.

But my original post was a reply to your assertion that his early life actions regarding his daughter made him a monster. It had nothing to do with your statements regarding Laurene Jobs/Apple/the actors.
 
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garya73

macrumors 6502
May 12, 2013
282
71
Delaware, USA
Those who would sit in judgment of Steve Jobs are mystifying to me. First of all, there is no way on earth that you know all of the nuances of private conversations, etc. that occurred over the years.

But more importantly, think about all of the things you have done wrong in your life. Things that perhaps even nobody knows about but you. Think about how embarrassed and guilty you are about those things. Perhaps you're still hiding something you do that you don't want anyone else to know about. The point being that we're all humans. We all do stupid, selfish, hurtful things in our lives. Hopefully we realize the error of our ways, rectify our actions and make amends at some point. Steve was fortunate enough to get that opportunity in regard to Lisa. As is documented in many, many places he later admitted paternity, apologized to Lisa and her mother and took full responsibility for his actions (or lack thereof). Lisa even lived with Steve and Laurene from the age of 14. This quote from Wikipedia is just one documentation:

"Years later, after Steve left Apple, "he apologized many times over for his behavior" to Lisa and her mother and "said that he never took responsibility when he should have, and that he was sorry."[2] After reconciling with her, Lisa wanted to change her name and Steve was happy to do so. Steve legally changed her birth certificate, shifting her name from Lisa Brennan to Lisa Brennan-Jobs.[8] Chrisann credits the change in Steve to the influence of his newly found biological sister, the American author Mona Simpson, who worked to repair the relationship between Brennan-Jobs and Steve"


Don't you think he spent the rest of his life feeling a little bit of pain in his heart every time he looked her in the eyes and realized how he had wronged her? Sure, he did it to himself, but the pain and guilt was still there. Steve was a very bad father to Lisa for the first few years of her life. But he wasn't a monster. If he physically or sexually abused her he would have been a monster. But being a neglectful father, and then realizing it and trying to make up for it does not rise to the level of monster.

Smells like a sequel.
 

rdlink

macrumors 68040
Nov 10, 2007
3,226
2,435
Out of the Reach of the FBI
Well, we don't know how the Trailers app culls the trailers. If they do it the way I think (through automated processes) then it would get included no matter what. If they added it of their own volition, then you'd be right and I would question the authenticity of their claims to being principled if they are so willing to sell those principals out.

Someone is curating it, because it classifies trailers. But regardless, if the executives at Apple are so offended by the movie that they, in their own mind think it's unworthy I can't imagine they'd put the trailer on their system.

And I also think they're smart enough to know it would play very poorly from a PR standpoint should they refuse to make it available on the iTunes store when they have all of the rest of the studio's catalog.

Finally, I don't think the principled thing to do is withhold it. Tim Cook and the others can personally find the movie distasteful, and still allow it to be sold on the store so that others can make up their own minds. But to unilaterally censor a mainstream movie just because they are personally offended by it, when they do allow many more movies that others find personally offensive would be an unprincipled move, IMO.

But, we shall see. I know where my money is.
 

jdoll021

macrumors 6502
Someone is curating it, because it classifies trailers. But regardless, if the executives at Apple are so offended by the movie that they, in their own mind think it's unworthy I can't imagine they'd put the trailer on their system.

And I also think they're smart enough to know it would play very poorly from a PR standpoint should they refuse to make it available on the iTunes store when they have all of the rest of the studio's catalog.

Finally, I don't think the principled thing to do is withhold it. Tim Cook and the others can personally find the movie distasteful, and still allow it to be sold on the store so that others can make up their own minds. But to unilaterally censor a mainstream movie just because they are personally offended by it, when they do allow many more movies that others find personally offensive would be an unprincipled move, IMO.

But, we shall see. I know where my money is.

Hmmm, you make a good point here. I confess I had not thought of it that way. When you look at from that point of view, then you're right, it would make sense for them to allow it to be sold.

Also, as I said in a previous post, if they do allow iTunes sales then they may also be interested in seeing what the iTunes community thinks of it in the comments section.

As you say, we shall see.
 

ginkobiloba

macrumors 6502a
Jul 2, 2007
627
1,738
Paris
As much as I don't idolise Steve, I think this movie is opportunistic at best. They focus on negative things about him and spin it into a feature length movie. Now that he's dead he's not gonna able to fend for himself. He's a terrible boss and a terrible father. So what? It's his private life. He's not a celebrity. He was a businessman. I rarely see any other businessmen being subject to the same scrutiny over their private lives as Jobs is.

Am I the only one who thinks he is actually portrayed in this film in a much more positive light than what people make it sound ? Really, look at the arch of the story from the trailers : "Tortured perfectionist artistic genius revolutionizes the computer world while battling his demons, then reconciles with himself and people around him and finally finds peace."

That's the stuff of legends ! People are suckers for these kind of stories and love these kind of characters ! Nobody cares about perfect characters in movies. It's the cracks, the weaknesses, the faults that makes film characters fascinating and attractive.

Do you know any movie about a brillant character that goes like this ? : "Brilliant character is an all-around nice guy, revolutionizes the world, is perfectly balanced in his life, loves dolphins and pandas, and nothing bad happens around him. Then the movie ends." . Booooooring !
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
I don't know what is more outrageous... that she would attempt to do that, or that actors would actually listen to her. If I were in N. Korea or China, this sounds like something I would be on board with.
Seems like she exercised her freedom to make herself heard, and the actors exercised their freedom to make their own decision...unless we are talking about some sort of threats taking place here.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
Am I the only one who thinks he is actually portrayed in this film in a much more positive light than what people make it sound ? Really, look at the arch of the story from the trailers : "Tortured perfectionist artistic genius revolutionizes the computer world while battling his demons, then reconciles with himself and people around him and finally finds peace."

That's the stuff of legends ! People are suckers for these kind of stories and love these kind of characters ! Nobody cares about perfect characters in movies. It's the cracks, the weaknesses, the faults that makes film characters fascinating and attractive.

Do you know any movie about a brillant character that goes like this ? : "Brilliant character is an all-around nice guy, revolutionizes the world, is perfectly balanced in his life, loves dolphins and pandas, and nothing bad happens around him. Then the movie ends." . Booooooring !
I'm thinking pretty much the same thing. The Social Network painted all kinds of characters in different ways, both good and bad, just like real life usually is. The movie was just fine and seems like this one will be as well.
 

rdlink

macrumors 68040
Nov 10, 2007
3,226
2,435
Out of the Reach of the FBI
Am I the only one who thinks he is actually portrayed in this film in a much more positive light than what people make it sound ? Really, look at the arch of the story from the trailers : "Tortured perfectionist artistic genius revolutionizes the computer world while battling his demons, then reconciles with himself and people around him and finally finds peace."

That's the stuff of legends ! People are suckers for these kind of stories and love these kind of characters ! Nobody cares about perfect characters in movies. It's the cracks, the weaknesses, the faults that makes film characters fascinating and attractive.

Do you know any movie about a brillant character that goes like this ? : "Brilliant character is an all-around nice guy, revolutionizes the world, is perfectly balanced in his life, loves dolphins and pandas, and nothing bad happens around him. Then the movie ends." . Booooooring !

I wish I could thumbs up this post multiple times.
 

Gasu E.

macrumors 603
Mar 20, 2004
5,029
3,145
Not far from Boston, MA.
It's not a documentary seeking to accurately depict his life, it's a drama meant for entertaining the masses. So no, she doesn't have to just "suck it up."

She may lose, but she has every right to fight like hell against what she sees as exploitation of a man she cared for.


She certainly has the right to speak up, make a fool of herself, and provide publicity for the movie; and I, for one, will defend that right. Just before I see the movie.
 

blahblah100

macrumors 6502
Sep 10, 2009
272
30
Jerk yes, monster no way.

Fair enough, though I would say it's probably somewhere in the middle.

A jerk is someone who puts a ding in your car door and walks off. Denying your child a father is a bit more serious that. But he's not a monster either (someone who rapes/kills).
 

xbjllb

macrumors 65816
Jan 4, 2008
1,355
247
Amazing how so many people seem to care more about being portrayed as a jerk than Jobs himself would have.

Visionaries relish being jerks. Capitalism, Baby. Nice guys finish last.

That nice guy stuff is for Windows pod people, like Gates.

(sarc off)

:apple:
 
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metsjetsfan

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2011
1,387
238
this is a weird situation. the movie says it is based on the issacson book and movies typically do that as cover for lawsuits- they can say its based on the book. so if she sues then she sues issacson who is someone jobs gave full access to personal and professional.
 
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