Hi all, I'm new to this forum so I'll also use this post as an introduction. I want to learn to program badly and I'm not having much luck at all. I've been trying to teach myself for years with very limited success. My first attempt was with RealBasic and I managed to do a few things with it. I've been a Mac user for years (since about 1991) and have recently discovered XTools and have have trying to learn it along with Objective C and Cocoa. Over the past couple months I've visited dozens of websites, read a lot of documentation and worked my way through many tutorials. No matter where I go, what I read or what I accomplish it seems like everything starts out in the middle and there is no really good place to get a basic understanding of programming. For example, every thing that is a starting point for learning Objective C says you need a thorough understanding of C. I found what I thought was a good site for learning C and started working through it and learned a good deal, but in the end it really didn't help me. in understanding Objective C. I am currently reading the "The Objective C Programming Language" at the Apple Developer website. (The 1.0 version because I don't have Leopard yet) My problem seems to be not being able to get a handle on syntax. I can't seem to find a comprehensive document that gives the methods for objects. It seems everything I read assumes you know something else that I don't. Case in point: I tried to make a screensaver. I had success in making one from a tutorial but all I really did was copy code. When I tried to adapt it to my own needs it all blew up. The tutorial used rectangles an I wanted to make a simple line. I thought NSBezier path was what I needed to use but nothing I tried would make a line. I don't want to ramble on and on. Maybe this will give someone here a key to help me know what to do from here. I'm not a stupid person; I know I can get this if I can just find someone to help a non-programmer from the beginning. Thanks for reading.