Legal question (sorry if this might sound stupid)

Discussion in 'iPod' started by crazycat, Dec 22, 2005.

  1. macrumors 65816

    crazycat

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    #1
    I downloaded something like 95% of the 3000 songs i have on my itunes, i normaly download full albums, burn them onto a cd and then rip them back. I then delete the origenal songs and keep the burned ones. Now is this legal? am i doing something i should not?
     
  2. macrumors G4

    Lord Blackadder

    Joined:
    May 7, 2004
    Location:
    Sod off
    #2
    I'm almost positive you're OK.

    You bought the music, it's yours. I think that technically (acording to the EULA) you are allowed one physical backup copy in addition to the music on the hard drive, and they can be in any format.

    Just out of curiosity, why are you deleting the originals?
     
  3. macrumors Core

    Jaffa Cake

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    The City of Culture, Englandshire
    #3
    Did you pay for the songs you downloaded? If not, and if they weren't offered as legal freebies (such as the Single of the Week on the iTMS), then I'd hazard a guess and say no it isn't legal.
     
  4. macrumors G4

    Chundles

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    #4

    OK, let me try and decipher this post:

    You begin by saying you download your music. Have you downloaded these albums from a legal download site (ie, have you paid for them?) if not then you're strike one on the illegal list. Downloading music for free is illegal (except for some songs that are offered for free etc).

    Then you burn the albums to a CD - are they in audio format?

    Then you rip these back to iTunes? Why? You are copping a massive quality loss in doing this, mp3's are compressed down to about 10% of the song's original file size, you then copy this to a CD and then re-rip them down at another 90% compression? Is this correct? Cause if it is there is something massively flawed in your logic. You'd be much better off keeping the original files.

    Basically your whole method is both wrong and (if your songs aren't properly downloaded from iTunes Music Store or similar) totally illegal. Now, in the US I believe it is legal to rip your CD's to back them up etc. This only works though if you own the CD in the first place.

    Your best/legal methods of getting music are:

    1.
    a) download and pay for your music from the iTunes Music Store.
    b) burn these tracks to CD so you can use them in the car etc.
    c) keep the original tracks as they show that you have legally obtained the music - they have a DRM embedded in them.

    2.
    a) Rip from real CD's that you have purchased.
    b) Burn these tracks to CD but do not distribute them to friends etc - they are simply a back up for you.
    c) Keep the original files on your computer.
     
  5. macrumors G4

    Lord Blackadder

    Joined:
    May 7, 2004
    Location:
    Sod off
    #5
    Ugh - not awake yet, I posted hastily.

    These guys are right - I assumed by "downloaded" that you bought them from iTunes. If you got them from a P2P service like Limewire they are all illegal, even if you own the CD that contains the tracks you downloaded.

    If you own the CDs that the music comes from, or if you bought the songs legally from an internet service, then you are legal. But as Chundles said you are probably ending up with inferior sound quality due to all the compression/uncompression.
     
  6. thread starter macrumors 65816

    crazycat

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    #6
    I am sorry let me make this clear.

    I downloaded all my music from iTunes music store, i then burn them to a CD then rip them back. The reson i do this is so that i can transfer music between my computers easly. I formate my PC desktop about once every 3 months so its just works out better for me. The reason why i deleted all the origenal once i bought is so that i dont waste space, the quality is not that bad, i have been listening to my cd's for ages and i cant tell the difference.

    I was just wondring if it was legal or not, i never download music for free and i think people who do it should be shot. I just do it with way because it works out :).
     
  7. macrumors 6502a

    JasonElise1983

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    Between a rock and a midget
    #7
    I get what you are saying... You are asking if it is illegal to burn the songs you downloaded from iTunes (which have DRM built in) to a CD, Rip them back to the computer (in an effort to get rid of the DRM?) and then delete the originals. Ok, I don't quite understand your logic on that one, because if you paid for it, then why do you want to get rid of the DRM? Who is it affecting? I'm not even sure that it actually gets rid of all the DRM when you do that. I always heard if you were on a Mac, you could burn it to disk and then rip it off on Windows and that would erase the DRM, but no doing it on the same computer you bought it on. I also agree with Chundles you are killing the sound quality. I don't know about illegal, but it's definately a little on the odd side.

    -JE
     
  8. macrumors G4

    Chundles

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    #8
    It's legal then, if you are buying the downloaded music.

    Your method however is very odd indeed. If you have less than 5 computers you can use the music on all of them without worrying about the DRM. It actually allows you to use the music on up to 5 authorised computers. Why don't you just back the songs up in the m4a format on CD or DVD or whatever you use and keep the quality the same? The when you reformat you can just drag the songs back over and you aren't going from m4a to audio and back to mp3 or whatever it is?
     
  9. macrumors 65816

    jholzner

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Location:
    Champaign, IL
    #9
    It does remove the DRM completely. However, as he said, he does it so it's easier to move around to different computers. I understand that. Although I don't burn and rerip the music I buy from iTunes I do find the whole authorization thing a pain.
     
  10. thread starter macrumors 65816

    crazycat

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    #10
    I dont really care about the DRM aspect but i do it so that i can reformate my PC desktop (i use 2) and not worry about it.
     
  11. macrumors 68020

    DavidLeblond

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    #11
    As long as you deauthorize the iTunes on the PC computer before you format it, you're golden.

    Have you tried streaming the music from your mac on your PC using iTunes sharing?
     
  12. macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    #12
    I think that may be the real problem. A lot of people forget to deauthorize before formatting, and then it is a real pain.
     
  13. reh
    macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Location:
    Arkansas
    #13
    Sounds like you should partition your pc hard drive so you don't wipe out all your personal data every time you reinstall windows.
     
  14. macrumors 6502a

    fartheststar

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2003
    Location:
    Vancouver
    #14
    Very good point.

    You could expand that thought further and network your 2 computers together if they're in the same home, and have one of them be the "music drive" that both can access. If possible, have it on a drive that no OS is on (ie - 2nd HD on the PC or 2nd HD on the mac). Even if it does qualify as using the music on 2 computers you're much better off from an organizing point of view and a sound quality. Then, back up the iTms songs to a DVD for backup only.

    - and just using the deauthorize computer option when you're re-installing the OS as DavidLeBlond said.

    :D
     
  15. macrumors 603

    GimmeSlack12

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #15
    As post #2 said. You bought it, so it is your music to do what you please with it.
     
  16. macrumors 68040

    decksnap

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    #16
    Unfortunately no. If that was the case, it wouldn't come with any DRM at all. It's illegal to circumvent DRM. Not that I care.. but if you're talking technically, I don't think it is legal.
     
  17. Moderator

    balamw

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Location:
    New England
    #17
    He's not circumventing DRM in the sense implied by the DMCA. If he was using jhymn your argument might fly, but he's not doing that. He's burning the DRM protected file to CD using the software provided. It's like saying that DVD Player is illegal because it decrypts CSS to play DVDs.

    There's no DRM on the burned CD, and nothing I have found in the EULA/TOS says you can't rerip from that CD. Note that, as Chundles said, by doing so he's introducing plenty of compression artifacts and has reduced the quality of the material.

    B
     
  18. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    #18
    Not quite what you please tho' :rolleyes:

    Burning and re-ripping method just to backup and transfer music to different computers sounds like a waste of time and sound quality. Why don't you make backups of original files onto cd (not audio) and keep them safe for the next time you reformat the drive.
     
  19. macrumors 6502a

    Blackheart

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Location:
    Seattle
    #19
    Technically, I think this is illegal. However, I don't think anyone will care so long as you aren't giving the music away.

    I would consider this a circumvention of the DRM (security technology).
     
  20. Moderator

    balamw

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Location:
    New England
    #20
    I respectfully disagree. It is an application of the usage rules.

    The sections I quote from your quote back up my argument. Once burned, for personal, noncommercial use, it falls back upon plain old boring Copyright law. If it is legal to rip any copyrighted CD (for personal, noncommercial use) it should them be possible to rip a CD you burned with iTunes.

    If you give a copy of a burned CD to someone else or upload the file you rip to P2P you are in as much trouble as if you did the same for a physical CD.

    B
     
  21. macrumors 68000

    Loge

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Location:
    England
    #21
    It's clearly in line with the terms and conditions of the iTMS.
     

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