Lies, Myths and Downright Stupidity

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by wdlove, Jan 30, 2004.

  1. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    #1
    Watch Stossel's full report tonight on 20/20

    You may be among the many who would answer yes to these questions. You'd be wrong. There are a lot of popularly held beliefs out there that simply aren't true. Yet the media tend to report on many of them as though they were hard facts.

    Here's my list of popularly reported lies and myths. I'll reveal Myth No. 1 during my special tonight at 10 p.m. ET.

    http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/2020/myths_john_stossel_040123-1.html
     
  2. Powerbook G5 macrumors 68040

    Powerbook G5

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    #3
    My girlfriend actually argued that colds don't make you get a cold thing with me before. I figured it might be a little true because the cold weather may leave your immune system slower or less effective or something but looks like she was right.
     
  3. MrMacMan macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

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    Location:
    1 Block away from NYC.
    #4
    This was aired last week... when I saw it.

    And the East River is better then it was ... but still isn't as good as ocean water.

    His articles critique problems with society, I do this all the time, but I have facts.

    I don't have free time expect when I post here, otherwise I am doing homework. Do I need a study to point that out? No.

    Myth #5 doesn't tell us anything.

    He points out facts and sharptons fuzzy numbers.
    He gives us fluff when we need substance.

    Whats next? Conceled shotguns? Concealed Machine Guns? 'The robber came into my store and robbed me of $10... but I had my machine gun, luckly I was saved when I blew him away.'

    Do we want everwhere in the U.S to turn into LA (sorry LA)?


    I read the article?

    Where is #1?

    WHERE?

    ARG.

    Isn't #1 about pollution in the east river?

    DAMN YOU ABC!

    :mad: :mad:
     
  4. themadchemist macrumors 68030

    themadchemist

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    Location:
    Chi Town
    #5
    I am wary about articles that try to make society to look rosy. I would rather think that our society is worse than it is and try to fix it than to think that our society is better than it is and become smug.
     
  5. RandomDeadHead macrumors 6502

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    Feb 8, 2003
    Location:
    fennario
    #6
    This is nothing but propaganda.

    Guns are good? WTF?
    Tell that to the thousands of people killed every year by guns.
    Just because their are only a few children kill every year by them doesn't mean that right now their isn't a hommie with a uzi doing a drive by as we speak.

    Its just plain common since to think that if no one except police officers and the military had guns their would be virtually no gun crimes.

    Now before I get flamed, let me say that I am NOT for getting rid of ALL guns. Rifles and shotguns have their place. But hand guns and automatic weapons only have one point to their existence, To kill other people, and if nobody had them, nobody would need them.

    I understand that people say that it is their constitutional right to bear arms, but when Jefferson and Franklin were writing it, I don't think that they were thinking about 30 year old Ms. Smith caring a weapon in her pocket book that could put 20 slugs in someone before they could say NRA.

    So they say that all people should be allowed to tote guns with them at all times, just to protect themselves from all the other idiots with guns. If that's the case, then the gov't should make a little extra money by selling nuclear weapons to all the other nations. Hell why shouldn't we? They need nukes to protect themselves from our nukes. Then we will need to make faster, better nukes so that ours will be better then theirs.
    Sound familiar? If your as old as I am you will remember a little something call the cold war. Is this what these people want? A mini nation wide cold war? I must have a gun so if you shot me, I can shot you. Do these people want Bullet proof vests to become heirlooms, passed down from father to son. Will they do it like the seatbelt laws? force you to carry a gun and wear a vest "for you personal safety". You have to wear your seat belt to protect you from being stupid and from everyone else's stupidity. 100 years ago their were no seat belt laws because only a fraction of people had cars, now that everyone has cars you have to wear it to protect yourself. If everyone carries a gun and a vest, YOU will end up having to have them too, just to protect yourself from others.

    Instead of calling it the right to carry, maybe they should just call it population control.
    It definitely would make road rage, nascar races, bar fights, and clan meetings allot more interesting!

    I think the number 1 on the List of Popularly Reported Misconceptions should be the myth that the media can actually sometimes tell you the TRUTH.

    Think about it,
    No guns = No gun violence. And that IS the truth.
     
  6. kylos macrumors 6502a

    kylos

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    Location:
    MI
    #7
    Oh sure, I totally agree with you, no guns = no gun violence. Except for violence perpetrated by the gov. against its citizens. Thomas Jefferson said that the beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until they try to repeal it.

    And no guns /= no violence. You can kill with anything. Yes, guns are much quicker, but you have to be able to use them. Using the scale of your gun/nuke analogy, I propose illegalizing fists. I mean, you can kill with those things, and we're in a really big mess 'cuz everybody has them and people are always getting punched out and killed.
    After all, no fists = no fist violence.

    And, finally, the key issue the article brought up that you didn't bother to pay attention: by far most gun violence is committed by perps. And finding a gun is not a problem for them. They have all sorts of sources for weapons and won't ever be lacking for firepower, regardless of laws banning weaponry. A couple years ago, a city in the U.S. (i think dc) introduced a gun buy back program, in which you would be paid $50 to bring in any gun you want to be destroyed no questions asked. It was a great thing for felons, buy a cheap gun from some supplier, pop a guy, and get it destroyed. Almost no money spent and no evidence. Why would a criminal do this? Because they most certainly aren't lacking for a good supply of deadly force. They can get weapons no matter how many laws are made, and even if the supply gets a little short, it will be much shorter among the general populace, making their job so much easier.
     
  7. Stelliform macrumors 68000

    Stelliform

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    Oct 21, 2002
    #8
    I think he brings up al ot of good points. I don't think he make reports to be unbiased, since most of his reports are designed to counter the opinions of liberal views. But I think what he says is the truth.

    BTW Here is a BBC article about how gun crime in Britain is on the rise.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Britain have very strict gun control laws?
     
  8. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
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    Los Angeles
    #9

    Yeah, Switzerland is just a hot bed of gun violence. :rolleyes:

    England, Whales, and Australia all have very strict gun control laws/bans and they all have some of the highest rates of break-ins and crimes against persons among industrialized nations (higher than in the US). And, at least in England, gun crime is actually on the rise even though gun laws, AFAIK, have never been more strict.

    Now, here is a thought for you, trying drawing a distiction between criminals who purchase guns illegally and use them to commit crimes and law-abiding citizens who purchase their firearms legally and don't use them to commit crimes (last time I checked there were about 180 or 190 million law-abiding gun owners in the US).

    You are corret that no guns=no gun violence but unless you own a magic wand that will make all guns, and all technology to make guns, disappear off the face of the Earth never to return there will always be guns. So your "no guns=no gun violence" logic, while showing a stellar grasp of the obvious, is no more helpful a solution than "feeding everyone=no world hunger."

    Stossel's point that gun controls laws do not keep guns out of the hands of criminals is correct. 9 times out of 10 a gun used to commit a crime has been purchase illegally. Thinking more gun control laws will significantly, if at all, reduce gun crime is a fundamentally flawed train of thought. It would be like making it harder for people to get a driver's license in an effort to curb car theft. I don't think any theif would suddenly stop stealing cars because he no longer had a valid driver's license.

    If you want to stop/lower crime you need to, among other things, focus on the socio-economic issues that are the underlying cause of crime instead of focusing on the tools used by criminals to commit crimes. Treat the cause not the symptom.


    Lethal
     
  9. wdlove thread starter macrumors P6

    wdlove

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    #10
    On the show last evening Myth-Busting" viewers wrote in abou questions they had on the topic.

    http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/US/myths_040130-1.html

    Arthritic Knuckle-Crackers?

    Francesca from Brookville, N.Y., writes, "Does cracking my knuckles really predispose me to arthritis?"

    No, says the Arthritis Foundation. The noise you hear when you crack your knuckles (sot up a few times) is actually the collapse of an air bubble — it forms inside the joint when the joint is pulled apart. The air bubble doesn't do any damage to your hand and has nothing to do with arthritis.

    This old myth just may have been started by a very irritated parent, or teacher, because, as those of you who don't crack your knuckles may know, the sound can be a bit irritating.

    So, annoying, yes; arthritis, no.
     
  10. Les Kern macrumors 68040

    Les Kern

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    Alabama
    #11
    5 and 3 are great examples of Stossel's typical lack of analytical skills. I used to like his peices, but as I got older I began to realize he is part of the problem outlined, for instance, in the book "Culture of Fear", only here he spins some cutsey urban myths.
    As for 5 and 3? They jumped out at me because I know something about them. He conveniently leaves out commonly known but all too forgotten facts to make it fit his story. That's what he always does. He's not an investigative reporter, he merely tries to entertain, always slanting toward his wacky beliefs.
    You should dismiss him out of hand.
     
  11. JesseJames macrumors 6502a

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    Mar 28, 2003
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    How'd I get here? How can I leave?
    #12
    So Stossel is like Geraldo?

    I remember watching Late Night with Conan O'Brian and they did a skit about him.
    It was setup like a nature documentary and they showed him scurrying around in Afghanistan and Iraq. The announcer was commenting how Geraldos could be identified by the distinctive hair on its upper lip, it's the most dangerous animal there is.
     
  12. MrMacMan macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

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    1 Block away from NYC.
    #13
    No arthritis... but cracking you knuckes leads to bigger air pockets which are very unsightly.

    when your hands are all mangled because of you massive overcracking of your knuckled like mine are you have a problem.

    Stossel -- Give me a break.
     
  13. wdlove thread starter macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #14
    I'm sorry to hear that MrMacman. Could you post a picture of what the damage to your hands look like, I'm curious. ;)
     
  14. Powerbook G5 macrumors 68040

    Powerbook G5

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    #15
    I never crack mine just because it sounds so creepy whenever I hear that sound.
     
  15. kylos macrumors 6502a

    kylos

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    MI
    #16
    I, unfortunately, am a full-fledged knuckle cracker. I started after seeing some peers do it when I was a preteen. Looked so cool. It was hard to do at first, but now it is necessary to do so to relieve stiffness in my fingers. I'm not sure if this is related to cracking though, since my grandfather had extremely bad rheumatoid arthritis. (Maybe such hereditary beliefs are mostly mythological as well, don't really know) Anyhow, my right knee is already showing signs of arthritis, so it might not be the cracking. I'm starting on some supplements pretty soon, hopefully that will keep me off cortisone injections.
     
  16. wdlove thread starter macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #17
  17. etoiles macrumors 6502a

    etoiles

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    Where the air is crisp
    #18
    Just a little side note on that: for those who don't know, every 'healthy' Swiss male between 20 and 32 (or more depending on your rank etc.) has to do military service. A few months of basic training (again depending on rank and unit this can stretch out quite a bit) and a few weeks each year until you have reached a certain number of days. You also have to go to a shooting range every year and score a minimum of points to avoid additional gun related training. Now, the interesting part is that you get to keep all your 'personal gear' at home, including gun, ammunition (in a sealed box), gas mask etc.

    This could seem very dangerous, but I think the main point is that you get a lot of instruction on how to handle a gun, the army is very big on safety. You will be scrubbing toilets if you forget to put your gun on 'safety' or worse punishment if you keep it loaded after an exercise... You definitely lose the notion to handle it like a toy.

    Plus, an assault rifle is hardly the thing you'd tuck into your pants and walk down the streets. You still need a permit to acquire/carry a concealed weapon in Switzerland.

    The overall high standard of living also explains the low violent crime rates...most deadly uses of guns are suicides.
     
  18. kylos macrumors 6502a

    kylos

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    #19
    My dad (age 50) has been taking glucosamine supplements for a while, and while he doesn't have arthritis, has noticed a marked improvement in mobility. So I'll be trying glucosamine while still young to hopefully avoid the suffering my grandfather went through.
     
  19. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040

    MongoTheGeek

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    Its not so much where you are as when you are.
    #20
    I loved #4. It backed up some things that my prof's back in college used to say.

    Let me say something about the gun one as well. Speaking as someone who out sizes most of the players in last night's game, not having a gun doesn't bother me. I might take up mugging as a hobby. :) If I get a ball bat I can even start mugging groups of people.

    I like what the PA constitution has to say about guns. the right of citizens to bear arms for their defense of the defense of the state shall not be questioned.

    Seriously I think people should be allowed to have more serious firepower. The idea of the militia is to be able to defend the country in time of need. I want to own a TOW and maybe a 75mm mortar and a couple of belt fed 50's.

    #5 is true in that it is misrepresented but who is to say what is fair? There are some that would argue that a head tax is the only fair way to go. There are some that would argue that a regressive tax that taxes the poor more would make more sense since they get a greater share of the largesse. Then again #7 would suggest a flat ceiling on income might be the way to go.

    #6 is sad but true. I've been tempted to run for congress with the slogan "Burn the $&%&'er down"

    #10 is true. Though let me say when you are sick you get cold much much easier. I know I am ill because I get cold. Back when I was seriously ill I spent the entire winter and spring cold. It wasn't until the summer that no longer felt cold.
     
  20. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    Toronto
    #21
    These are great points, when I worked the US/Canada border I was shocked at the carelessness and lack of knowledge people had about their own weapons. From not knowing it was loaded (or how to unload it for that matter) to forgetting that it was in their vehicle! The fact that people were so careless about something designed to kill made me very nervous.

    The big problem is handguns... whatever the NRA says they are designed for concealment and close range firing. Attributes that make them bad for hunting, but great for killing other people.

    The laws of firearm use, transportation, and ownership in Canada is fairly strict, which (thankfully) includes manditory saftey training, and detailed background checks. Right now there are huge problems with a new gun registry law. (May opponents of the law are causing delays and the budget for the program has skyrocketed)I'm for the law, and not because I think registration will stop the use of firearms in crime, but will provide possible investigation links for law enforcement to capture a suspect or highlight those with strange weapon purchase habbits. We register the make, model, hell even colour of our cars and don't intend to do anything violently illegal with them. So as long as proper proceedure is used I have no problem with the government attempting to track the ownership and possible criminal use of deadly weapons. I think they should take it one step further and ban the purchase of handguns to everyone outside of security/law enforcement.

    I wouldn't want to live in a place that I thought I needed a gun for my own protection. The laws should be changed so that illegal use of a weapon automatical brings the maximum sentance for what ever crime was commited.
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #22
    Guns again huh? Can I just call someone a prick now and get it over with?
     
  22. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #24
    aside the aside

    actually, however strange it may sound, switzerland does have one of the highest rate of firearms deaths in europe (not counting eastern europe/russia/balkans).
    it is true that most of them are suicide, but this is true for the US too (~11000 homicides vs ~16000 suicides).

    On the other hand, the US have a violent death rate which is three to five times that of any of the other G-7 countries (japan, germany, uk, france, italy and canada).
    Although comparing data from different countries is always somewhat arbitrary, (because there are many other differences other than gun laws), I think that the equation less guns=less violent deaths/injuries is so obvious (IMO, of course) that I really don't get how it is not "common sense".
    I agree that even if strict gun laws were passed, criminals would find ways to getthem, but it would make it harder for them to get them and definitively much easier for police to track them.

    well, may be the use of firearms-related crimes, went (slightly) up in england, but the number of deaths actually went down. Besides, look at the numbers: 80 homicides in England, >10000 in the US!

    i guess i agree with randomhead and raid on this one, guns ARE bad.
     
  23. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #25
    Re: aside the aside

    Violent crimes can be committed with knives too, do you want to ban knives so no one gets stabbed?
    Except that many of the guns they use now were obtained illegally, and therefore are unlicensed and harder to track due to the lack of a paper trail.
    Besides, look at the the numbers: 625 homicides (including 9 by "legal intervention") in New York City in 2002(link), but Cumberland RI only had 0! You have to report on populations too man.
    Tell that to the person who lives in a cabin in the middle of Montana who hunts to survive.
     

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