Limbaugh v. Moyers

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, May 29, 2005.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    I've felt uneasy listening to Rush Limbaugh ever since that windbag first hit the national scene years and years ago...uneasy because even then his outrageous lies struck me as dangerous. While others were dismissing him as a mere entertainer that nobody should take seriously, I was all too cognizant of the fundamental propaganda rule that lies, repeated loudly enough and often enough, "become" the truth.

    Simultaneously I've been alarmed at the sheer cowardice of the media which, I think, can be traced all the way back to the Reagan administration. It absolutely amazes me that with an administration as corrupt as this one that there is no one in the MSM crusading to expose the bastards.

    But then there's Bill Moyers. Moyers apparently delivered a speech recently which hit the nail on the head so precisely that it ticked off that most pompous guardian of ethics and morality, Rush.

    Link

    What Moyers said is not important so much for its originality -- people have been complaining about this for years -- as for the fact that it's rare for a media personality to acknowledge this failing. I take it as Moyers challenging modern journalists to check between their legs and see if they still have anything down there.

    It's also notable for having infuriated Uncle Rush. I'm glad it irritated the other side, because we need to talk about this in the public discourse.

    (And as an aside: has anybody noticed that the formerly ebullient Rush seems constantly on the edge of explosion lately? I don't know if it's drug withdrawal symptoms or if he's frustrated that the liberals are finally causing some trouble in Congress, but he seems to be headed towards a nervous breakdown or something. Anyway.)

    So I say good for Bill Moyers. If the rest of the MSM doesn't pick this up, then I hope he keeps scolding them until he does shame them into talking about it. Whatever happens, I just hope this doesn't turn out to be one more speech that just vanishes into the ether. The issue is too damned important.
     
  2. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #2
    The more our government and society are controlled by far right-wingers, the louder Rush screams about the overbearing madness of the liberals.

    Classic fascist-style propaganda: even as you murder your enemies, you must keep crying about how they can destroy you at any moment, about how you are the weak one and they the privileged and powerful.
     
  3. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #3
    Interesting, but I think the Nation article got one fairly big thing wrong. Limbaugh hasn't always been the one who "defends a corrupt status quo." When he was on the outside looking in, he was working just as hard to corrupt the status quo. The consistent thread in Limbaughism is not so much alliances with the people in power as the flagrant corruption of truth.
     
  4. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #4
    Whoo-ey! Moyers is on a tear. You really have to read this whole article, but here's a sample of what he's continuing to say:

    Now there, folks, is somebody who has integrity and guts, concepts wholly foreign to the people running this country right now.

    Knowing the connivings of the Republicans, PBS could very well end up under the heavy thumb of the current administration. But it's nice to see that instead of cowering from the bullies as everyone else seems to be doing, Moyers continues to put up his fists and take them on.
     
  5. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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  6. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #6
    Wait until we have a Democrat in office again, then Rush will be all about Freedom of the Press. I wonder what he'd do if someone like McCain was Pres? Tough call I guess. Rush is just preaching to the converted anyway. You can only fool the masses for so long before they start seeing the truth, and a lot of people are getting fed up with being told not to look at the man behind the emerald curtain.

    I'm glad that Moyers is fighting back. He doesn't deserve this any more than Newsweek or AI did. Now, CBS news... that's another story.
     
  7. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #7
    Lordy Moyers lays the smack down in this one. Remind me never to piss Bill Moyers off.

    I'll put a few of the gems here, but seriously go read this.
     
  8. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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  9. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #9
    Wow. Just...wow. Moyers is suddenly acting like a man on a crusade. He's not only wonderfully articulate, he's really, really blunt about the sad reality of America today. It's so refreshing.

    I just wish it were getting more coverage. But then again, perhaps that is why Moyers is "on a crusade". One of the strategies of the far right is to take an issue (no matter how absurd or bogus), and repeat it over and over and over until the MSM pick up on it, giving it enough credibility to move into the national debate.

    Maybe Moyers plans to keep talking about this until the subject moves from the relatively paltry MSM coverage it's getting now, to the dinner tables of American families. He seems to want to be our Howard Beale, telling us the uncomfortable truths and telling us to get good and loud and yell, "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this any more!" God knows we need someone like that to inspire more people to get off their disillusioned butts and hit the streets in protest.

    My admiration for Moyers is growing by leaps and bounds. As a truth-teller, he's joined the ranks of guys like Al Franken and Jim Hightower...and right now, he's putting himself in the line of fire more than even those guys. All I can say is, "Go, man, go!"
     
  10. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #10
    I think my favorite part is where he mentions:
    Take it to them.

    And that last line is key as well. It's why I like 'Rat and some of the other conservative posters, and have others on ignore. Remembering that would do a lot to raise the level of discourse in this country. Whatever else you may think of Moyers, he puts forth a good argument that isn't loaded with rhetoric and insults.
     
  11. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #11
    i think part of the reason he's mad is because he just wants to write his book on LBJ, but he feels he's needed more in this way.

    i've got a truckful of respect for him.
     
  12. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #12
    Network right? A little before my time, but oddly apropos. Isn't it sad that the bad stuff in that movie has come true, but we don't seem to have many Howard Beale's to counteract the O'Reilys, Coulters, Hannitys, and Limbaughs.

    Who knows, if people start listening to people like Moyers a little more, more of those shows may become unpopular, unprofitable, and cancelled (one can dream can't he?). Crossfire's already gone. People are taking comedians like Stewart and Franken more seriously, could happen. All Moyer's needs to do is throw in a little more comedy and he'll be a hit.

    But then, we all know what most of the people who listen to people like Rush care about.
     
  13. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #13
    Since Rush likes to describe himself as being an entertainer, you could look at it this way.

    Rush and Hannity are unfunny comedians who are truthfully challenged. Franken and Stewart are funny comedians who tell the truth.

    The subject matter is just as serious. Though much better if the truth is told.
     
  14. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #14
    Actually, Howard Beale is certifiably nuts, and his celebrity has more to do with his insanity being put on display on TV than anything he's got to say. This is the point of this very dark and cynical film, which anticipated "reality TV" and confessional/confrontational talk shows by quite a few years. Almost invented them, you might say -- though they were probably inevitable.

    Rupert Pupkin, ladies and gentlemen, Rupert Pupkin...
     
  15. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #15
    Well, Beale was indeed insane; and yes, people tuned in because they were mindless drones enjoying the freak show. Nevertheless, Beale spoke the blunt truth.

    The irony, of course, is that when he got the audience to react with outrage to the world crumbling around them, they didn't do it because they had arrived at that angry state themselves...they did it because someone on TV told them to.

    (BTW, if anybody wants to watch one of the best, most dead-on satires of all time, find "Network" at your local rental store. The background will seem ancient -- the film refers to "The Six Million Dollar Man" and "Phyllis" -- but it's a hilarious and still highly topical film. And you'll cringe at how much of it is coming true.)
     
  16. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #16
    X, Franky and Stewy are just as challenged as Rush and Hannity. And for everyone who gets worked up at Rush, there is another pieved at Moore. The only 2 I dare watch anymore are Scarbourgh and Chris @ Hardball. Granted neither are outstanding, but I believe they slant less than most.
     
  17. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #17
    I can think of no basis for that statement, and no way of supporting it.

    Stewart does a televised show and if that were true there would be many examples readily available. The same is true of Franken.

    I can provide countless examples of Rush and Hannity's distortions. Examples show up here all the time.

    If Franken and Stewart are lying, let's see it. I listen to Franken and watch Stewart and find no reason to reach the same conclusion.
     
  18. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #18
    The point being, on TV, the truth doesn't matter, only the show. I think that point is often missed.

    My personal favorite film about TV is "Quiz Show." One of the most overlooked films of the '90s. Most people who saw it thought it was about the quiz show scandals of the '50s, but it was about much more than that.

    Also, "The King of Comedy."
     
  19. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #19
    I wouldn't say Stewart is anywhere near as bad as either of those people. First of all, he clearly states that he is a comedian. The only time I've heard Rush say that he's an entertainer is after he got caught being a hypocrite for the drug abuse. Then he went right back to the spin. Plus, I've heard Stewart make fun of Dems on plenty of occasions. If you've actually listened to both as much as I have, you'd never say that. Franken is a definite lefty, but also nowhere near as bad. And he isn't as honesty challenged (though he does defend Liberals more than he should). Plus, he also clearly calls himself an entertainer. Don't get me started on Hannity. He makes O'Reilly look like the moderate he claims to be.

    Matthews is great, but Scarbourgh is definitely right leaning. The last article I read by him he was talking about how great the war in Iraq was going and how anyone who questioned that was un-American. I like him sometimes, but he is anything but moderate. Still somehow better than Rush or Hannity though.
     
  20. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #20
    I know people like to be fair, but I want to see one example of where Franken is clearly lying or deliberately trying to mislead his listeners.

    I would like the same for Stewart.

    If none can be provided than you are being unfair to Stewart and Franken. Just because Franken is proudly left leaning does not mean that he needs to distort the truth any. In fact, he is building a reputation for doing just the opposite.

    In this instance, the left is vastly different from the right.
     
  21. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #21
    ON the way to work, but here is the first site that comes to mind........

    These are just ones in his book I think, could be wrong..

    Link

    It is usually the ones who spout there purity that are the worst, like rush too.
     

    Attached Files:

  22. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #22
    Stu, the problem with sites like that is the whole purpose is not to set the record straight but simply to distort and smear. for example.

    There is no doubt that Philipine Officials were involved, it is true that Clinton himself did not arrive in the Philipines to thwart the plot. However, Franken is talking about the intelligence work that goes into preventing terrorism and the dissemination of information that prevents terrorists attacks.

    Franken is not lying, the author of that site is splitting hairs to make Franken look like a liar. The facts is, the team Clinton had in place was the team that collected and disseminated the information that prevented the attack. Of course it was the Philipine Officials who acted in Manila, it's their country and their jurisdiction.

    Some of the other "lies" read more like smears, than lies. All in all, you have 24 questionable accusations from a less than credible website that serves the interests of hardcore republicans.

    Rush gets close to topping 24 lies in a single show sometimes by continually restating factually wrong information.

    Here's a link to 19 pages of Rush Limbaugh magic, from a website that has not been around for a quarter of Rushs career.
     
  23. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #23
    why are you giving my rush links? rush is full of crap! but so are some on the left. I believe at most half of what any single source tells me, from the right or left. Blindly follow franken if you wish. You asked for examples, i gave em.
     
  24. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #24
    Your examples were not very convincing, there is nothing I can do about that.
     
  25. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #25
    I checked a couple of the "Franken lies" in stu's link.

    One claims that Roger Ailes had nothing to do with the Willie Horton attack ad of 1988; that it was a creation of something called the National Security Political Action Committee. This is sourced from Salon and insidepolitics.org.

    Yet Franken's book claims that Roger Ailes and Lee Atwater directed the Horton ad, with Ailes saying, "the only question is whether we depict Willie Horton with a knife in his hand or without it." Franken cites the 11/14/88 issue of Time, and says the comment was reported in several other publications as well.

    So it's a "he said/she said" kind of thing. It would be interesting, though, to see whether Ailes had any "unofficial" links to NSPAC.

    The pope assassination/Philippines/Clinton thing? Their sources are, among others, Regan Books and Regnery. Regan publishes Hannity, and Regnery did the Swift Boats fable, whereas Franken's source was Barton Gellman of The Washington Post.

    Other claims about Franken "lies" cite sources like Newsmax.

    Not exactly convincing.
     

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