Lindsay Lohan? Smacked down and PWNED!!!

[thedude110]

Double spacing after full stops is just anachronistic.

There's a difference between the writing process and the written product. As I type, I have to double space between sentences -- it helps me set distinct ideas apart while reminding me that I need to find transitions between those ideas. The second space is a (psychological) gathering place -- a pause to reflect, look back, and then move forward.

I also like to use this little guy -- often when I'm supposed to use a semicolon, other times when I want to pause. It was good enough for Emily Dickinson, etc.

I had no idea I was so fired up about this.

EDIT: The woman says: "I double space after a full stop. I learned it when I learned typing in sixth grade."

 

[latergator116]

I don't see what's wrong wth double spacing... I think it makes it much easier to read.

 

[skytown205]

I also prefer a double-space. I think a mss is different from the final, printed page. It is simply a matter of what one has grown up with, but to my eye the double-space more clearly delineates the beginning of a new sentence. In a book, it is not necessary, as one does not read for mistakes. For a manuscript in progress, I think it can make a difference.

For a typewritten letter (in this case the final product), I can't see that it would matter, either way. I'm sure over time the space in such letters will disappear; however, a letter is not laid out in the same way as a book is, so to my mind to criticize a double-space for looking ugly is sorta missing the point. Clarity is the overriding issue, and one space or two, the meaning is clear.

 

[2nyRiggz]

It is funny how this thread turn from LL to double spacing.....we really don't care about her..LOL good stuff.

Oh and to add I was told never to double space and full stop outside of the ()




Bless

 

[Thomas Veil]

Indeed. Americans tend to set punctuation inside of the closing quotation mark regardless of context, whereas the British, more logically, will only do so if the punctuation mark forms part of the quoted material. Accordingly, punctuation is always set outside of scare quotes in British practice.

Double spacing after full stops is just anachronistic.

I must be British-minded, because I've always followed that practice (including punctuation in a quote only if it was part of the original). It just makes sense.

But I do double-space. Like most everybody else, I was taught it in typing class, and it's impossible for me to un-learn it. Even here in the text box I'm typing in, it looks neater and more logical than just one space, which is what you leave between words.

You wanna get further off-topic? It just bugs the **** out of me when I go to a video store and see the titles lined up alphabetically -- A, B, C, etc. -- and then movies like "1984" and "2001: A Space Odyssey" are collected together numerically before you even get to the alphabetical titles.

Fer cryin' out loud, didn't anyone ever teach these people alphabetical order? "2001" goes under T, between "TV's Greatest Bloopers" and the video short, "Ty Detmer's Career". There is no "separate category" for titles that begin with numbers.

Oh...and I don't feel a bit sorry for Lindsay Lohan. Sounds like Party Girl needs to stop showing up sleepless and hung over.

 

[treblah]

Not to go off topic (not that this the rest of this thread is), but I love the new Avatar. Is that Jenny Lewis? Looks like a publicity photo for her last album.

To be (kinda) on topic, never heard of Jenny partying hearty... but maybe that's why she's not as famous as she should be. Stupid Hollywood. He says from about 10 miles away from Hollywood.

It is Jenny Lewis! I thought it was too small for anyone to recognize. It sucks that no talent assclowns like Lohan are famous while Jenny is not. OTOH, with what it apparently takes to become "famous" maybe that is a good thing.

 

[Tanglewood]

That letter was poorly written and unprofessional. It would go straight through my shredder.

I agree, it makes it hard to take the letter seriously.

and on the other subject, I double space when I start a sentence.

 

[mattthemutt]

I find it funny that this thread has gone from discussing the letter to whether people should double space after a period. Personally, I do it all the time; my high school teacher taught us to do it and reprimanded us if we didn't.

As for the Lindsay Lohan letter, I am glad someone had the 'guts' to say that, but the problem is that she is probably un-fazed. It seems that materialism and "spoiled-ness" is the new religion.

 

[Blue Velvet]

I can't believe that just because your high-school teachers and typing tutors have said it's so makes it some kind of gospel... as Brize said it's anachronistic and it's also simply bad practice.

And as for the extra visual space? That's what the full stop (period) gives.

Typography 101

 

[Brize]

But I do double-space. Like most everybody else, I was taught it in typing class, and it's impossible for me to un-learn it.

You'd be surprised at how easy it is to change the habit. To give you some background, I routinely double spaced until I read BV's posts in this thread a little over a year ago.

On the basis of Blue's comments, I had a look back through some emails from people I'd defer to on matters of style, only to find that none of them double spaced.

Ultimately, I referred to the Oxford Guide to Style, which states unequivocally that a single space should be used after a full stop. Surprisingly, it only took me a week or so to stop the double tapping.

Even here in the text box I'm typing in, it looks neater and more logical than just one space, which is what you leave between words.

The arguments for double spacing just don't stack up. A full stop followed by a space and a capital letter is a perfectly adequate indicator that you're reading a new sentence - any additional space is entirely superfluous.

The notion that double spacing eases legibility is demonstrably false. Books, newspapers and forum posts are all single spaced, but none of us have any difficulty in recognising where one sentence ends and another begins.

Conversely, to those of us who single space, it can be jarring to read double-spaced prose. Aside from the ugly white rivers, double spacing also implies an artificial disconnection between sentences.

Oh, and by the way, any educator that advocates double spacing needs a good slap.

 

[Glen Quagmire]

hrmm, I still do.

But, they need to include the . inside the close quotes.

Why? The whole sentence isn't in quotes. I know that it's correct in the US to include punctuation at the end of sentences and clauses in quotes (it's not in the UK) but to me it looks awful. In some respects, I prefer US English to the British variant but this is one where British English gets the thumbs up.

Incidentally, I double space after sentences. Again, I think it looks better and helps separate out sentences. Yes, it may be old-fashioned, but so what? You're hardly going to be able to get all those elderly typists that do the same to undo the habit of a liftetime, are you? When I see single-spaces sentences, I don't get riled, so why all the fuss here? Who cares?

As for LiLo, she used to be *extremely* hot before her "diet" (cough *coke* cough). Curves everywhere. Yummy. Now, not so much. And she seems fairly obnoxious and immature as well. Perhaps she needs to be taught a hard lesson to get her back on the straight and narrow.

Anyone else notice at the bottom of the letter (ugh, Times New Roman) that Lindsay's mother is one of the recipients (D Lohan = Dinah Lohan, Linday's mother). Bet she (Lindsay) was pleased about that.

 

[Thomas Veil]

Incidentally, I double space after sentences. Again, I think it looks better and helps separate out sentences. Yes, it may be old-fashioned, but so what? You're hardly going to be able to get all those elderly typists that do the same to undo the habit of a liftetime, are you?

It's not that it's old-fashioned, it's what almost everyone is taught to do. People can use single spaces, but that hardly makes "double-spacers" -- and the teachers who taught them -- wrong.

According to wikipedia, there is actually an ongoing debate about this subject. Sounds like people in publishing (web and book) use one space, but most of the rest of us continue to use the traditional two.

Essentially the article says that the reason one space is popular in publishing is that full-page justification may make the two spaces seem even wider, and in HTML the second space tends to get automatically eliminated.

However, since I'm not a publisher....

 

[WildCowboy]

According to wikipedia, there is actually an ongoing debate about this subject.

We get it...you're the third person to link to that section of the Wikipedia article.

I was taught to add two spaces after a full stop, and that's the way I still do it. As others have said, it's easier for me while typing to have that extra little bit of definition between my thoughts.

 

[OnceUGoMac]

Although part of the problem there is that the 'correct' style varies depending on where you are in the world. To my British eyes the letter above looks correct by putting the full-stop outside the quotes and brackets. To your American eyes, the period is in the wrong place.

I'm an American and I've never been taught that you put a period in the quotes unless it's part of the quote.

 

[beez7777]

the extent to which you're all arguing about the amount of spaces after a sentence is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[thedude110]

I'm an American and I've never been taught that you put a period in the quotes unless it's part of the quote.

Man. What are they teaching you out in Illinois?

That's been standard fare everywhere I've taught (and learned!) in the US.

 

[lord patton]

Lindsay Lohan single spaces...

...but only when using Courier.

 

[jsw]

Man. What are they teaching you out in Illinois?

That's been standard fare everywhere I've taught (and learned!) in the US.

Even so, I prefer and use the British standard. For whatever reason, putting the punctuation inside the quoted phrase seems awkward to my programmer's eyes.

This looks "right".

This looks "wrong."

I think the punctuation-inside-the-quote is going to go the way of the double-space after the period except when it's part of the quoted text.

Of course, what's important with respect to this thread is that, right now, Lindsay's out getting drunk and will be late to work tomorrow. Again. Meanwhile, we argue about punctuation. I think I'd rather have her life.

 

[OnceUGoMac]

Man. What are they teaching you out in Illinois?

That's been standard fare everywhere I've taught (and learned!) in the US.

I was taught in MO. My girlfriend was taught the same as well (she's from IL).

We were taught as the following:

Billy said, "I love my Mac."

Billy claims to be a "mac fanatic".

 

[solvs]

It is Jenny Lewis! I thought it was too small for anyone to recognize. It sucks that no talent assclowns like Lohan are famous while Jenny is not. OTOH, with what it apparently takes to become "famous" maybe that is a good thing.

She's better off. Movies of the week and all. Haven't seen her with the Watson twins live yet, but she is one of my MySpace buddies.

 

[szark]

Anyone else notice at the bottom of the letter (ugh, Times New Roman) that Lindsay's mother is one of the recipients (D Lohan = Dinah Lohan, Linday's mother). Bet she (Lindsay) was pleased about that.

I don't think Lindsay had a problem with it. (Link)

You wanna get further off-topic? It just bugs the **** out of me when I go to a video store and see the titles lined up alphabetically -- A, B, C, etc. -- and then movies like "1984" and "2001: A Space Odyssey" are collected together numerically before you even get to the alphabetical titles.

Fer cryin' out loud, didn't anyone ever teach these people alphabetical order? "2001" goes under T, between "TV's Greatest Bloopers" and the video short, "Ty Detmer's Career". There is no "separate category" for titles that begin with numbers.

Welcome to the computer age, where everyone types the names into a database and sorts in ASCII or UTF character order (numbers before letters). I feel stabs in my chest everytime I look through movie showtime listings and see movies like "The Island" sorted under T.


My two cents:

If she has indeed been showing up late and acting in an unprofessional manner, she really needs to get her act together. Like it or not, Hollywood is usually very unforgiving of people who are difficult to work with.

However, I also feel it was wrong for this letter to be leaked to the media. This is a personal (and legal) issue which should be handled in private.

 

[vniow]

the extent to which you're all arguing about the amount of spaces after a sentence is absolutely ridiculous.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Queso]

But I like my double-spaces after full stops.

 

[Blue Velvet]

But I like my double-spaces after full stops.

Some people may not see it as important and in most cases, it isn't. But it's a big thing to me 'cos it's part of my job... if I tell others to stop arguing about something small related to their special area of knowledge, then how does that make me look?

 

[nbs2]

However, I also feel it was wrong for this letter to be leaked to the media. This is a personal (and legal) issue which should be handled in private.

I see no evidence that this was leaked as part of an official studio strategy (although I may be wrong). That being said, leaking "personal/legal" issues is part of being in the public eye. People want to feed at the trough of celebrity, this is giving them what they want. How is leaking this any different than what gets leaked out of DC or Cupertino?

Seriously, do we really need to concern ourselves with the privacy issues of a letter arising from a contract dispute? I mean, what is so personal here that Morgan Creek/Lohan have been stripped for the world to see?

On a side note, I learned period always in quote and two spaces after the sentence. I find the quote rule annoying, kind of like always using a comma when there is no natural pause. And the two spaces I like because I don't full justify - only left, and it keeps things from looking too cramped. But, I'm not an editor, what do I know.