Logic Audio 6 questions

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by CmdrLaForge, Oct 8, 2003.

  1. CmdrLaForge macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #1
    Hello,

    I have some question concerning Logic Audio 6.

    1) I use a some external hardware equipment to record music. Therefore I don't need Logic for recording but I would like to use Logic Audio 6 to mix multiple tracks and loops together. Is that possible ?
    2) I haven't seen that its possible to import .wav files. Is that true ? I saw that its possible to import .mp3. What in-and output format are there ?

    3) I would like to add to my recordings a synthiziser background music floor. Is it possible to do this with logic ?

    If someone has some experience with that App it would be great if you can share your experience.

    Thanks in advance
    Cheers
    CmdrLaForge
     
  2. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

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    #2
    OK, here goes:

    1. Absolutely, Logic allows import from many audio apps and hardware, it really depends on what else you use as to your specific interface requirements, but Logic is fully integrated.

    2. Logic imports aiff, wav, mp3, SD2 and a few others it also works at 16 and 24 bit. It outputs in all input formats and will mix to surround natively.

    3. Yes, logic supports soft-synth plug-ins from all the major manufacturers and features some excellent native synth and sampler modules, check out the ES1 and ES2 and the EXS24 sampler. You can use the synths as integral tracks alongside MIDI and audio tracks, mixing them through the track mixer. Be aware that the main synth modules are separate purchases unless you get the BigBox solution, which comes with the ES1 a pano and some other stuff. Logic has 3 synths as standard, a mono lead, a mono Bass and a polyphonic, all working on the analog model.

    Logic is the best intergrated MIDI/audio environment out there IMHO, even if ProTools is a better audio recording/mixing system (but only in its expensive HD form).
     
  3. CmdrLaForge thread starter macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #3
    I think that I will get the Big Box.

    Thanks for the reply.

    CmdrLaForge
     
  4. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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  5. tjwett macrumors 68000

    tjwett

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    #5
    sounds like you might be better off with Ableton Live, or maybe even Apple Soundtrack,
     
  6. Nicky G macrumors 6502a

    Nicky G

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    #6
    No... Sounds like Logic is the best solution, frankly -- Live is for just that, live jamming, mostly loop-based. Logic can handle pretty much everything, and is better for serious multitracking and production, in that it simply has more options. Plus, you get plugin synths and samplers, not just audio.

    I suggest getting Platinum, but yeah, it's not exactly cheap. But definitely worth it, some of the fx that come with Platinum are KEY!
     
  7. tjwett macrumors 68000

    tjwett

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    #7
    Didn't see the third part of his question about using synths, etc. Still, since he/she isn't actually planning to record and wants to mainly mess with wav files I'd still suggest Live as the best option. I'm a life-long Logic user but the learning curve is intense and the features sound like they could be overkill for these needs. Now, if you want a killer setup for looping and synth work you really can't beat the Live/Reason combo. Also, Live has actually made leaps and bounds as far as studio use is concerned. It's not just for live jamming anymore, not by far. It has become a seriously powerful part of my studio setup. The only thing that kept me from using it in the studio for the longest time was there was no video sync options but now ReVision is here and those days are over. I still need to go back to Logic now and then for serious sampler work but I'm able to get more and more done with just Live and Reason. Don't let anyone tell you different, Live is no joke. I suggest any doubters go and download the Version 3 public beta too. It's insane.
     
  8. CmdrLaForge thread starter macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #8
    Hello,

    thanks for your replys. After reading those I am not sure what would be the best solution for me. First of all I have to say that I am making music just for fun in my free time. I am not professional at all. That means that I don't want to spend to much money for the App. And it should fit my needs for the next couple of years. Maybe it is a good idea that I describe what I want to do. First of all I am playing guitar and writing songs. These songs I record using a GNX3 guitar workstation. With that I can record multiple tracks. Voice + guitar + bass + drums. They are mono .wav file format. Therefore I need a App to mix those tracks together to one stereo .wav file I can than burn on a CD. And on the other hand I like to add to some tracks a background music floor with a synthizeser. Hope you now what I mean. To sum up: I have to needs:
    1) Mixing .wav files
    2) Adding background music floor.
    I already have an App for my PC and I already produced my first CD. But I have switched to Apple this year and for the future I would like to use Apples only and not my PC anymore. Unfortunatly the App I am using on my PC is not available as a Mac version.

    From your replys I still think Logics Big Box is maybe the best solution but I am not sure. Maybe you have some thoughts ?

    Cheers
    CmdrLaForge
     
  9. Nicky G macrumors 6502a

    Nicky G

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    #9
    I would suggest checking out www.osxaudio.com and looking through all of the software listed there. Live, Logic, Digital Performer -- there are frankly a ton of options, and many of them are in the "excellent" category. Many apps have demos available, but unfortunately I don't believe Logic is one of those.
     
  10. logicat2001 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    #10
    Hello CmdrLaForge,
    (hi tjwett)

    Here are a few questions for you:

    - You say you've already produced finished tracks on a PC. What application did you use on the PC?

    - What is your budget?

    - How do you plan on importing the .wav files from your GNX3 into your Mac?

    - Are you going to also purchase an audio interface?

    - You mention bass, drums and synthesizer. What is the source of these sounds: live instruments that are being mic'd in a room or are they sounds that are sourced from your GNX3?

    - As you've been multitracking on the GNX3 up to this point, do you expect to change your work style? For example, when you finally purchase this new software, will you stop multitracking using your GNX3 or will the GNX3 remain the center of your music production?

    Both Live and Logic are very powerful possibilities. Live can be used for a lot more than looping as tjwett mentioned. Many folks are using it for multitrack DAW production and mixing.

    I'd strongly suggest answer the above questions before purchasing anything. I hope you continue this thread or head over to www.osxaudio.com as tjwett suggested. There are many possible solutions for you.

    BTW, Live has a demo available here, and Logic has a 30-day demo available via this book.

    Best regards,
    Logicat
     
  11. CmdrLaForge thread starter macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #11
    Hi Logicat,
    thanks for your reply. Here are my answers:
    1) On the PC I used Music Maker 2003. I can mix the tracks with it but not add a soundfloor w/ a synth
    2) The GNX3 has a Smart Media Card Slot. Its possible to record up to 8 tracks on it. I import the files using a smart media card reader with an USB port
    3) May budget is max $300
    4) I am not purchasing an audio interface. I will not use the mac for recording
    5) The source for guitar and bass and voice is live played instruments by myself. They are recorded digital using the GNX3 recording possibilities
    6) I will definitly not change my work style. The GNX3 is perfect. I just need an App to mix the tracks and add a synthi background

    Thanks for your help

    Cheers
    CmdrLaForge
     
  12. logicat2001 macrumors regular

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    Minneapolis, MN
    #12
    Cool, thanks for answering all those questions.

    However, what about the synthsizer? Why can't you just continue to use the GNX3 to record another track of synth sounds?

    Still a bit confused,
    Logicat
     
  13. CmdrLaForge thread starter macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #13
    Hi,

    the GNX3 http://www.digitech.com/products/gnx3.htm
    is a guitar workstation with a build in 8 track recorder and a drum computer ONLY. I use it for recording voice guitar, bass and drums. I have no synthsizer or ever worked with one.
    But I would like to add some background soundfloor using a synth to my songs. I have a program for my PC to mix the tracks and generate a stereo .wav files I can use to burn the songs on a CD. I don't have anything to generate that sound floor.

    Is it clear now or am I still confusing everybody ?

    Thanks for your help - I still don't know what to do. Maybe its a good idea to buy a real synth (maybe used) instead of trying to use the MAC.

    Cheers
    CmdrLaForge
     
  14. logicat2001 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    #14
    So if you were using Live or Logic, how would you generate that synth sounds themselves? Are you going to purchase a keyboard to play? Are you planning on inputing individual notes with a mouse to make the synth noise? Or is there another thing you're thinking that I haven't mentioned yet?

    I think what you should do is continue to ask questions before you spend money on something that isn't going to help your cause.

    I'm an audio engineer and sound designer, so I'd really like to help get you matched up with a solution.

    Don't worry - keep asking questions until you know you've found your right answer. If you could describe what your synth noisefloor might sound like, or what style of music you're looking to produce, that might be really helpful too.

    Best,
    Logicat
     
  15. CmdrLaForge thread starter macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #15
    Hi,

    because I have never used a synth I have no idea how good it works if I just use my computers keyboard and mouse to generate the music or if I have to purchase a keyboard. If it works fine without - great. If not I have to buy one. But maybe its a better idea to buy a real synth then ?

    Regarding the underground sound floor. Just think about songs from Pink Floyd like "Shine on you crazy diamond". Don't now if you now that old fashioned music.

    Cheers
    CmdrLaForge
     
  16. logicat2001 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    #16
    Hello,

    Although I've heard Shine On You Crazy Diamond, I'm not easily familiar with it.

    There are so many different ways that you might go about this...

    You mentioned that you're interested in spending a maximum of $300, yes?

    If so, give me a day to think about it and I'll post up a couple of options for you. This should make the possibilities more concrete and help you to decide what you should do.

    Best,
    Logicat
     
  17. CmdrLaForge thread starter macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

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    #17
    Hi,

    thanks. That sounds great. Looking forward to your post.

    Cheers
    CmdrLaForge
     
  18. logicat2001 macrumors regular

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    Apr 16, 2003
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    Minneapolis, MN
    #18
    Hi Cmdr,

    Things have been crazy around here the past few days.

    I'll be sitting down to answer you question later this evening.

    Best,
    Logicat
     
  19. logicat2001 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    #19
    I must begin by saying that $300 is apparently (and surprisingly) a tough price point to hit.

    Let's review your requirements:
    1- import .wav files
    2- more than 8 audio tracks available
    3- multi-track automation
    4- built-in synths or plug-in synths available
    5- built-in effects or plug-in effects available
    6- can be controlled using only a keyboard and mouse
    7- able to bounce multiple tracks of audio to one stereo track
    8- runs on Mac Os X
    9- costs less than $300

    Option 1: Logic Audio Big Box
    If $300 is an absolute requirement, this is the only package I found that will absolutely offer you the features above. (Seems we're right back where we started!)

    Here are my comments for some of the requirements above:
    1- drag and drop .wav directly into your arrange timeline
    2- max. of 48 tracks (whether mono or stereo)
    3- full, real-time automation of all synth, effect and mixer controls
    4- 3 simple but effective built-in synths (ESM Mono: synth, ESP Poly: synth and ES E: Ensemble synth); 1 built-in sample player (EXSP24) with basic sample library and additional Analog synth library; 1 excellent mono synth, ES1; 1 vintage electric piano, EVP73.

    Additionally, a growing collection of free AudioUnit synth plug-ins available online (you must check out GreenOak's Crystal and Urs Heckmann's Zoyd. Be warned that Crystal sounds great but may only barely run on a G3.)

    5- 28 built-in effects, all parameters with full automation.

    Additionally, a growing collection of free AudioUnit effect plug-ins available online as well as some more already pre-installed by Apple on Os X.

    6- Easy loop recording and you can point-and-click notes to play your synths while building a synth noise-floor.

    7- Bouncing with multiple options is available.

    8- Os X native, and now that Emagic is a division of Apple, I expect (my fingers are crossed: oh how I hope) the application will continue to grow and expand in positive ways.

    9- The only solution I found that delivers all the above for under $300.

    Here are some negatives and things to consider:
    - Logic is a full-fledged recording studio and MIDI environment built in software. It is not going to ever be as straightforward as using your DigiTech box.

    - There are many, many (probably hundreds) of features that you are not going to need in order to accomplish mixing a few tracks and adding a synth sound before your final mixdown. Not only will you need to come to terms with the application, you're also going to have to learn to recognize which features and parts of the GUI are unnecessary for your task without letting them prevent you from working.

    - Once you learn how to use the basics, I expect you could bypass your DigiTech box and simply record your original files in Logic. In my opinion, this might be a future goal and make the task of learning Logic well worth it.

    Option 2: Ableton Live
    This just makes it under your price point, and may be much more accessible than Logic at the start. The only "problem" is that Live doesn't have any built-in synths, neither does it allow for instrument plug-ins. However, I might really strongly suggest going the Ableton route.

    Ableton Live has only two views of your audio:
    - channel view which organizes your audio as "clips" which can play once or be looped
    - track view which shows your audio as standard horizontal tracks

    In fact, one of Live's strengths is its very unique GUI. Everything is very cleanly laid out yet it is very powerful. You would simply drag your audio into the tracks view and mix to your heart's content.

    As far as getting a synth sound, I'd recommend finding some freeware synths online (search www.audio-units.com or www.osxaudio.com), then record them via a freeware application like WireTap. Now drag these audio files into Live and mix away. (That's a bit simplified because you're going to need a plug-in host like Rax and a way to trigger the synth, like MidiKeys. However, once you've found a solution that works for you, it's going to be really easy.)

    The other way you might "create" a synth sound is to use your guitar! Play some audio into Live's clip view, then edit mercilessly. Edit it into a loop and start adding plug-ins. Furthermore, Live3 has a remarkable method of manipulating your audio sample and FX unlike anything I've seen yet. They call these "clip envelopes".

    I'm running out of steam here.... :)

    Summary:

    Option 1: Logic Big Box
    Logic is the clear winner if you like your solution out-of-the box (or Big Box as the case may be.) It can do tremendous things but at the cost of tremendous complexity.

    Option 2:Ableton Live
    Live is the clear winner if you're interested in playing rather then getting all scientific.

    I'm sorry if this post is too long, and I hope I've been a help.
    Feel free to answer back with feedback.

    I've got to get home.

    Best,
    Logicat
     
  20. CmdrLaForge thread starter macrumors 68040

    CmdrLaForge

    Joined:
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    #20
    Hello Logicat,

    first of all - thanks to you for your reply that is really very helpful for me and sorry that I am replying so late. I was on vacation.

    I am still not sure what is the best solution for me. As I can see it the only "problem" Logic has is its complexity and it may really take a while before understanding it and getting nice results. I have to say that this is really a point I have to think about. Don't want to get frustrated by the App instead of just making music. On the other hand LIVE has no really synth possibilities and getting all this free stuff and get it running together is maybe really complicated as well.

    How about if I spend a little more money and just get a real synth instead of a software one. I believe learning to play one should be very easy. And then Live instead of Logic. Maybe thats the best solution.

    I still have some questions. You said that I can use Logic for recording directly. But how to do that ? What hardware equipment would I need in addition ? And why do do it. It really works very well with the GNX. You access it with your feet and you record track by track and you listen at the same time to already recorded tracks. This makes live very easy. So what are the benefits when using Logic ? I can't see em.

    Another question leads into another direction: you said that you are working a lot with mixing audio. When I do it I reallly find it hard to have the right levels. Is voice louder than drums or guitar or . . . . You know what I mean ? Is there a general way how to mix sound ? E.g. Voice should be the loudest and then drum and bass and so on. Are there any good books around. My tracks still do not sound as good as professional ones and I really like to do that better.

    Again, thanks a lot for your help. I will need a while before I make my decision. Mainly because I am too busy at work at the moment and have no time for making music. At the moment my favorite solution seems to be Live. Keep things easy. I post it when I finally got one or the other.

    Cheers
    CmdrLaForge

     

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