Logic Audio IS OUT FOR OSX

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by jelloshotsrule, Sep 1, 2002.

  1. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Location:
    serendipity
    #1
    just thought this deserved its own thread - since the original logic thread had seriously lost value....

    check

    www.emagic.de

    and all you logic 5 platinum users can upgrade and play away.

    i have to say, there are limits to audio drivers etc, but the program is out, so start bitchin' about something else...

    gelbin
     
  2. tnoe macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Location:
    Chicago
    #2
    Where is Gold?

    But where is Logic Audio Gold for X? Not all of us can afford or even need Plantium.
     
  3. C14ru5 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway, Sector ZZ9 PluralZ Alpha
    #3
    Okay, we are making progress here...

    From eMagic's website:

    ...we are developing a library which allows the porting of existing carbonized VST plug-ins to Audio Unit plug-ins with only very little effort. Using this method, depending on the plug-in it should be possible to create Audio Unit plug-ins literally within hours - an exceptionally small investment in time.

    Okay, since probably none of the current pro-line VST instrument/plugin developers will port their stuff until maybe sometime next year...do we have any volunteers? :D

    Seriously, just as much as I hope the transition to OS X to go smoothly, I still have my strongest doubts as to how quickly we will get a OS X pro audio system to be as versatile as a OS 9 system. Basically, for me to consider "going X" for pro audio means that I need to have a decent DAW system with a sufficient amount of plugins and software synthesizers. I'm sorry Apple, but as of right now, such a system simply doesn't exist. Sure, we have Reason, Peak and now Logic Audio, but I'm still waiting for Native Instruments to make an announcement for their software synthesizers. And of course, I express my sympathy to everyone still waiting for Pro Tools...

    Fellow musicians, I guess we'll still just have to hang in there. :rolleyes:
     
  4. thepannist macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    #4
    I am still waiting for Digital Performer for OSX

    They announced in July that it would be available the second half of this year. Please let that mean September, not December. I am afraid that Logic will not cut it for me, since Berklee (my school) is a DP school. Oh well....I guess I have to stick with 9 for the time being
     
  5. barkmonster macrumors 68020

    barkmonster

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2001
    Location:
    Lancashire
    #5
    I hope we see protools LE for OS X before the end of the year, now logic is out I'm sure all the other DAW companies will follow suit and bring their software out for OS X in the coming months.

    I'd love to use logic aswell but platinum is just so expensive I couldn't justify the cost so before I even touch OS X or even think about buying a new mac I need to have protools LE running under OS X and any compatability issues with the new towers taken care of.
     
  6. pev macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Near Bath, UK
    #6
    Re: Where is Gold?

    Quote from Michael Haydn, it will be coming "Later" whatever that means. Patience is a virtue I am told.... I need the AW drivers too, so I guess I'm biding my time...

    ~Pev
     
  7. Pepzhez macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    #7
    The only problem is that OS X is 100% ABSOLUTELY USELESS FOR AUDIO!!! Sadly, Jaguar did NOT fix the serious flaws in OS X. That is, USB and Firewire devices do not work properly - unacceptable levels of distortions, pops and crackles are present. These flaws are more noticeable using peripheral devices, but they are there throughout the entire audio signal. If you doubt me, please take a look at the apple.com "audio" forum under "OS X". There you will see complaint after complaint about this.

    Until and unless Apple fixes this unacceptable flaw in their OS, the only way to get any real work done using Power PC is to run OS 9.2 or a Linux setup. For all their bragging about their new "audio core", why is it that the current Linux audio core works one thousand times better than Apple's (which doesn't work at all, really)?

    I really did hope that Jaguar would finally correct this problem once and for all. Imagine my disappointment in discovering that Apple did not even address the problem, much less attempt to correct it. How they expect to make Logic for X the new standard is quite laughable when the OS cannot even make it work properly.

    We have extensively tested OS X - from 10.1.0 to 10.2 - for our production environment (professional audio - for both music and film) - from the lowliest G3 imac to the latest dual gig PowerMac - all with the same sad results. Every call to Apple tech support elicits a begrudging admission that "OS X still has some ways to go" and a promise that the next update will cure all ills. (They've been telling me this since 10.1.0.) Apple has really dropped the ball on this one, and nothing is going to destroy their already-eroding credibility in the audio world more than Logic Platinum for X unless they fix the OS problems ASAP.

    It's a shame, as I really like Apple and it's painful and puzzling to know that they can't seem to get this together in the least. Our only option - that is, if we want to get any work done - is to either run OS 9.2 (too unstable, unfortunately) or Linux (which has been working quite well). I've decided against buying a new PowerMac for myself, and will be running SuSE Linux on a dual gig Athlon for audio production. What other choice has Apple given me?

    I REALLY wish OS X worked for audio, as it's otherwise a very nice and elegant platform. Just when *will* Apple finally address this issue?
     
  8. pev macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Near Bath, UK
    #8
    Re: Re: Where is Gold?

    Oh, solution I found : Install 5.3.0 platinum, go through the dialogs and select XSKey activation and you can activate a 28 day demo for platiunum on X - this should hopefully be long enough to wait for the official release...

    HTH,

    ~Pev
     
  9. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    #9
    I'm already reading great things


    Taken from this thread

    http://community.sonikmatter.com/emagic/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=000739

    ppgwave first test using Logic on X.


    So basically Logic OS X almost DOUBLES your performance. Sounds like a winner to me. And from what i'm reading porting VST to Audio Unit doesn't sound like alot of work to gain access to many more apps since AU is systemwide ANY app will be able to use you plugin. Win/Win situation.

    Until you provide a link to back up these claims this is pure FUD. What friggin idiot uses SUSE Linux for Audio. This post was pure ********.
     
  10. tjwett macrumors 68000

    tjwett

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NYC
    #10
    I do production music for T.V., web, video and have used Logic Audio exclusively since version 3. My OS 9 studio, although basically abandoned by Apple as a platform, is faster, more third party-aware, and above all fully functional as opposed to X. I've spent the last few hours setting up my environments in Logic for OS X and have made several attempts to get a clean audio signal into or out of the machine. Here is the most annoying part. I'm using an emagic(that's right, Apple) emi 2|6 audio interface. I purchased this because of it's seamless integration with Logic and it's low latency and it has worked flawlessly for me in OS 9.2.2 for a while now. Under OS X, I can't get a clean signal at any bitrate regardless of my input device or buffer settings. Obviously 10.2 did not fix any of this as was expected and I will be booting back into 9.2.2 for my audio work. I have a few other apps that run under X(Live and Reason 2.0) and they work OK but they all suffer from the same problems; no good use of my interface and most importantly, very poor performance. I can't even get half the tracks, effects, DSP, etc. in X as I can in OS 9. Os X appears that it won't be a viable audio production platform for some time to come. It's a shame because I like the environment alot, it just doesn't work. Jaguar is a perfectly suitable name for the OS. Just like the car, it is sexy, comfortable and expensive but under the hood is a lemon. I'm not trying to crap on the OS because as I said I do love it but this is most frustrating as this release is what I have been so eagerly anticipating for months now. And what kills me is that it is an Apple product running on an Apple OS using an Apple interface. So much for seamless integration. On another note, I am excited about the features, especially the Audio Units standard.
     
  11. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    #11
    Apple should have never

    messed with audio over USB.

    They need to fix these issues and make sure the Firewire audio devices are flawless also.

    That's too bad. I jumped all over Pepzhez and he was right. The fixes better be in 10.2.1 or we'll have to raise h*ly h3ll
     
  12. Pepzhez macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    #12
    tjwett,

    I sympathize with you. Isn't OS X great? Move the mouse, get audio distortions; plug in a peripheral audio device, hear static! Now Jaguar can natively support this "special effect" in 5.1 surround sound! Way to go, Apple!

    I'd been using OS 9.2 (no other choice, really), but was frustrated with the occasional instabilities. They don't happen too often, but a crash or freeze, when it happened, always occurred at the worst possible moment. I've really given up on Apple for audio work. I can't wait forever for them to fix this, and I'm sick and tired of their promises: "Oh! The next update will magically fix everything."

    I wasn't about to use Windows either.

    Experimenting with Linux yielded excellent results. I now have a functioning audio workstation using Linux for Power PC. There are some excellent Linux audio apps around also. (Nothing yet as nice as Logic, but you'd be surprised at what's out there for free or nearly so.) Most important of all, I get a clean audio signal each and every time.

    [The only current drawback using Linux is that Firewire support is still in the beta stage. That is, if you, like me, use Firewire devices.]

    What I don't understand is how the open-source world can get this right and Apple, what with all their billions of dollars and experience and reputation, can continue to screw it up so badly. Come on, even Windows 95 doesn't suffer from this problem! What's up with that?! I'm not a programmer, but this does lead me to believe that OS X has some serious problems. One thing is for certain: it is NOT a hardware problem (these things run fine on OS 9 and Linux). The problem cannot be in the UNIX core (Linux example again). Perhaps it is Aqua interfering with everything? I really do not know. (Perhaps someone here with more knowledge than I have can take a guess.)

    Apple is about to seriously lose whatever credibility they had remaining in the audio world. And it is entirely their fault. People are going to be outraged when they waste their time and money on Logic for OS X and find that the OS cannot make proper - or even merely functional use of the app.

    I already feel like a sucker for shelling out for Jaguar; hoping that it would at last fix all these problems. It is obvious that the next studio which attempts to set up an OS X system will: 1) never get it to work, and 2) subsequently, will never consider buying any Apple product for recording ever again, period.

    This is going to be a major disaster for Apple, mark my words.
     
  13. pgwalsh macrumors 68000

    pgwalsh

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, Colorado
    #13
    Re: Okay, we are making progress here...


    Native-Instruments has already realeased Traktor DJ for OS X so I imagine plugins can't be far behind.
     
  14. Pepzhez macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    #14
    nuckinfutz,

    I'd never make the claim that SuSE is the ideal distro for audio, but since I knew nothing about Linux, this was the distro I chose to install. From reading the info on their sites, at least I could tell that SuSE supported audio and Yellow Dog did not. I wanted a distro to install with the least amount of hassle, as I'm just barely learning how to use Linux.

    Jeez, no need to jump all over me! I'm only trying to get something to work, because OS X sure as hell does not! For me, this is a private, experimental setup. I just wanted to know if it would work at all, period. So far, so good. It's already obvious to me that this is not the ideal or even best Linux setup to have, but I had to start somewhere.

    If you can suggest a better Linux setup for audio, I would actually really appreciate your input.
     
  15. tjwett macrumors 68000

    tjwett

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NYC
    #15
    I agree completely. This is a serious diappointment to me, and my studio peeps. We have been dying to make the jump and even though alot of our VSTis and plugins still are not ready, we were going to ditch OS9 and get by with Logic and Reason 2.0 for now. In the studio we use an RME multiface so we'll see if that yields any better results. I've tried the MOTU 828 in X and it blows. I really like the emi 2|6 because I rarely record any external audio aside from sampling. If the issue does not get fixed real soon I think my only option is to ditch the external interface and my mixer and see if i can find an optical card that will work. But then how do i get to my monitors?! It's so funny that Logic Platinum supports high-end stuff like 5.1, 24/96, etc. and the only OS that can run it doesn't support anything, atleast not well. I refuse to stay in 9 for any longer than 6 more months because Apple will officially abandon the OS and I will be left way in the dust. Can you point me to some Linux info. I'm open minded and am interested to see what's on offer. How painful is it to install Linux on a Mac?
     
  16. ndstephens macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2002
    #16
    Hey Pepzhez....

    where is this apple.com audio forum that you're talking about? is it actually on the www.apple.com website? if so i can't find it. i want more info about the audio problems on OSX so i'd really like to check out whatever forum you're referring to. thanks.


    nate.
     
  17. Pepzhez macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    #17
    Apple's site is a nightmare to navigate, isn't it?

    Go to http://www.apple.com

    Then click "support" on the top right

    then click "Join Discussions"

    Then "Mac OS X"

    scroll down a bit ...

    then "audio"

    I recommend you read the (very long) threads titled "10.2 USB Audio Glitches - Sign Petition Here!" and "List all your OS X audio problems here". As you will see, there are major problems with OS X and audio. It is not just a couple of people who cannot get things working right.

    tjwett, I came across a few good sites on Linux audio info. Thought I had them bookmarked but cannot find them. Let me do a search later and I will post them here.
     
  18. Pepzhez macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    #18
    Oh, and not difficult to install Linux on a Mac. I mean, if I can do it, anyone can! :) I put it on an extra HD I had sitting around. That way, if I screwed anything up, it was no loss - just wipe the drive, start again, etc. No great loss that way.

    Here's a good starting point. Check out this page for Linux distro comparisons for Power PC:

    http://www.distrowatch.com/ppc.php

    And this is the homepage for Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (with very good links):

    http://www.alsa-project.org/

    Some Linux audio apps:

    http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/linux/

    Somewhat useful Mac-centric Linux info:

    http://www.imaclinux.net/index.php

    More useful resource on Linux basics (and beyond):

    http://www.linuxnewbie.org/

    The last thing I am is an an expert on Linux. I'm barely getting a grip on it, but it's proving to be easier than I thought it would be. I'm sure that there are people around macrumors who know far, far more than I do about all this. Anyone care to jump in?
     
  19. ndstephens macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2002
    #19
    cool, thanks. never knew that was there. what a nightmare. i "switched" to apple just over a year ago and was so incredibly happy that i did. now a year later there's tons of concerns over a future CPU, the new G4's are a joke, everyone fears putting faster proc in the Powerbooks b/c of heat problems, the newest version of the OS still doens't fix audio problems at all......

    point is i'm getting really nervous these days about being a mac person. amazing how much can change in one year. i'll wait things out for another 6 months at least. i'd hate to have to switch again.
     
  20. tjwett macrumors 68000

    tjwett

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NYC
    #20
    thanks Pepzhez for all that. and i went and signed that petition at Apple. i'm going to have a go at installing Linux and see what i see. i'll post more about Logic X as i come across it. right now it's just simply unusable.
     
  21. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    #21
    Sorry man

    Thought you were trolling until I headed over to Apples support site for Audio...

    mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm this crow tastes yummy. Next time I'll check before poppin' off at the mouth. I really hope that these problems are taken care of though because I can empathize with what you and TJWETT are going through.
     
  22. pev macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Near Bath, UK
    #22
    What a load of ****. These boards are full of people making sweeping statements trying to sound informed... Logic X is *not* "simply unusable". Last night I installed it. Easy. Imported a few of my tracks, pressed play, off they went, no problems. No glitching, smooth performance and snappy. That doesnt seem "unusable" to me. If you want credibility, perhaps consider saying something more carefully written?

    If anyone wants to know specific details about Logic X from someone thats actually running it rather than reading rumors and release notes, fire away and I'll do my best to find out, explain and maybe do a few screen grabs too.

    P.S. Linux for Audio? You're kidding right? A pretty poor framework, worse support for 'pro' cards than OSX, and kernel jitter that can see latencies of up to 30ms on system interrupts (see Beno's benchmarks : http://www.gardena.net/benno/linux/audio/ ) No. Linux is not ready for primetime audio use by a long shot, and OSX will have its teething troubles ironed out LONG before linux does. Of course you could locate a card with a linux driver, download a 2.5.x experimental linux kernel, configure for your hardware and the pre-emptive scheduling (experimental) option andre-compile. Use that as your base and then use whatever audio app provides some of what you need and you may have a little success but not an easy to use system. Why bother?

    ~Pev
     
  23. PastorOfMuppets macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2002
    #23
    I am noticing a lot of "audio professionals" complaining about USB audio problems, and I have this to say: why the f*** are you using a USB audio interface?

    Look, USB 1.0 can only do 1.5MB/s, and since the Mac's built-in USB ports are connected to an internal hub, that 1.5MB/s is shared between all your devices. Now, based on my calculations, 1 second of 24/96 audio is about 1MB (24 bits per sample, 96,000 samples per second, PCM compression ratio of aproximately 2:1).

    The truth is, USB is "simply unusable" for anything higher than CD quality, and I would recomend not using it for anything other than connecting peripherals.
     
  24. mymemory macrumors 68020

    mymemory

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Location:
    Miami
    #24
    Ok, "Berklee" buy why don't you go to MOTUs office and ask them your self? it is just 10 minutes from your school, I went there but they didn't let me in:rolleyes:
     
  25. mymemory macrumors 68020

    mymemory

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Location:
    Miami
    #25
    My friend, welcome to the group!

    For years I have seen that Apple is a visual-based company, they have impruve everything during all this years except for the audio connectos wich are the same you can find in the Mac Clasic and the rest of them. The biggest jump for Apple (audio concern) was iTunes and that was 20 years later, but apple knows about audio what a Cuban (in Cuba) knows about the stuck market in the US.
     

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