London subway bombings - Police Lied

Discussion in 'Community' started by Music_Producer, Aug 16, 2005.

  1. Music_Producer macrumors 68000

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    Sep 25, 2004
    #1
    Just read the news.. the brazilian Jean Menezes who was shot 7 times in the head.. apparently did nothing unusual as the police had earlier claimed, obviously trying to cover up for their own atrocious behavior.

    The police claimed that he was wearing a 'heavy coat' .. when he wasn't. He was wearing a denim jacket! He didn't run and jump across the barriers (as the police reported).. poor guy simply looked like one of the suspected terrorists.. he was sitting in the train, when the cops jumped on him and shot him. Heinous!

    To think, he was actually brave enough to take the tube after the bombings, and he was killed by the police. Sad, absolutely sad.. and shows how the government lies all the time to cover stuff up. Here's the link:

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08/17/police.shooting/index.html
     
  2. Lau Guest

    #2
    Yup, and none of the CCTV cameras were working - according to the police.

    Er, so one day after a suspected bombing, and the CCTV outside, in the station, on the platform and on the trains all wasn't working? Riiiiight.
     
  3. oldschool macrumors 65816

    oldschool

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    #3
    did there used to be a time where UK police didn't carry guns?
     
  4. mpw Guest

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    Jun 18, 2004
    #4
    As far as I'm aware they still don't, as a rule.

    There are armed Police but they're not 'on the beat', they respond to specific incidents and are uniformed. The Police in question here appear to have been armed and plain clothes which is very unusual. ???
     
  5. XIII macrumors 68040

    XIII

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    #5
    The guy used an Oyster card for the barrier, and walked to the train, according to witnesses, before being shot down.
     
  6. Henri Gaudier macrumors 6502a

    Henri Gaudier

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    #6
    This story is true

    About 5 years ago I wrote and presented a 5 minute TV piece against CCTV for ITV (Independant TV) in Britain. It was filmed in the centre of London and whilst shooting we were approached by the police to check for permission to film. On discovering the subject matter of the film one of the police said that they had to know where all the cameras were so - when they were off camera, they could do what they wanted with people, treat them any way they wanted and would be safe from prosecution for being too rough. After they'd gone I turned to the camera man and said "Did we get that on tape?" and the producer turned to me and said "No! Thank goodness" He didn't want the responsibility. This incident would have helped my piece and even if we'd got the cop on tape it would never have been included. The counter piece to mine was a big nice friendly policeman saying how CCTV was our friend and was there to keep us safe in our beds. It would have been great to counterpoint this roly poly PR cop with "my cop's" statement but the media couldn't care less. So I'm not surprised by this story.
     
  7. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

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    #7
    At the moment this information is a "leak" from the Scotland Yard inquiry, and has no official credence either way, as such it should be viewed with healthy suspicion until it's confirmed or denied by the independents leading the inquiry team.

    I've seen one still from a CCTV camera and read yet another witness report, which could be as reliable as the first set of witness reports. Or not.

    Either way, the officers responsible will be subject to disciplinary or criminal proceedings if the inquiry finds this version of events to be remotely true.

    Reports suggest the findings of the inquiry are still some months from being published.
     
  8. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #8
    Wintermute,someone from inside the inquiry leaked this to Itv.It includes the full Cctv film and actual witness statements(from police officers involved).This confirms what has been common knowledge in the area from the day it happened.At the very least in news conferences police spokesmen lied.I'm not prejudging the inquiries outcome it is obvious though from the offical documents released so far that a giant cockup followed by deliberate muddying of evidence by the Met has occurred.
     
  9. Applespider macrumors G4

    Applespider

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    #9
    I heard an interview with the Met Police Commissioner just after this shooting where he said that around 10% of the London force are now armed as a matter of course. That includes undercover officers (which these apparently were) and the guys with semi-automatic rifles at the mainline stations/airports.

    Most bobbies still just have their trusty truncheon although I did read that they are starting to roll out Tasers. The only good thing to come out of this mistake might be that it will reduce calls that all UK police officers should be armed.
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    After they get back from their holidays?
     
  11. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

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  12. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

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    #12
    I'm not going to jump to conclusions either way Peterkro, I've heard much the same things, and the Beeb is reporting those "facts", but as with the original reports this is still unconfirmed and tantamount to rumour.

    We have absolutely no way of verifying the reports or statements as true, and we only have a single frame of video showing the legs of a man lying on the floor of the train.

    This is good press, that's all so far, it confirms nothing.
     
  13. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

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    #13
    I can't imagine being a London Bobby would be the easiest job in the world right now. It's all very well to go 'round pointing fingers now with the huge benefit of hindsight, but I still think they acted in the best interests possible. Unfortunately they were wrong and the cost was someone's life. It's horrible, but I don't think blaming the police really does any good. It's the terrorists that are causing the problems, the poor police men and women are simply trying to keep everyone safe.
     
  14. AlBDamned macrumors 68030

    AlBDamned

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    #14

    Yes, 'supposedly'. But bear in mind the first vocal witness of the event said he ran onto the tube, tripped and got jumped on before being shot. The way the excerpt read in the paper this morning sounded slightly questionable.

    The Denim Jacket part looks to be true according to the somewhat gruesome pictures.

    It makes for sensation, but I'm not convinced. "They walked onto the train and calmly shot [at] him 11 times" does not make any sense to me at all and until the documents are confirmed as genuine, I'm sceptical of these reports.

    If they are proven genuine, fair enough and an already tragic situation will develop into a full-on murder. :(
     
  15. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #15
    I don't think Itv ran this without running it past the legal bods to ensure the documents were genuine.Some pretty big names in the journalist world have also accepted them as genuine.Now this bit is speculation,it appears someone close to the inquiry is outraged at whats happening here and leaked the documents.The usual method of the establishment is to tie up the case with long inquiry times and release the findings some months down the road when they hope public interest has moved on to something else.
     
  16. AlBDamned macrumors 68030

    AlBDamned

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    #16
    True - but then I wouldn't have thought a National Newspaper Editor would put fake pictures of UK Troop - Prisoner abuse pics on the front of his paper, but Piers Morgan did it.

    Ask yourself if what the documents are saying sound right. Compare them to what was said immediately and unsensored, by eye-witnesses after the shooting. To me, it does not all add up at the moment.
     
  17. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #17
    How so?
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4720979.stm

     
  18. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #18
    It now appears that he entered the station at a "normal walking pace", and that witnesses mistook the pursuing police for him, hence the accounts about vaulting barriers and passengers being pushed out of the way. In any fast-moving situation there are as many differing accounts as there are people. The police at the time officially declined to give detailed information, saying that it was normal practice in such a case for an investigation to be held, and that they did not wish to prejudice the inquiry.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1550669,00.html
    That the Daily Mirror printed those photos says more about the red tops than it does about actual news reporting news industry.
     
  19. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

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    #19
    This is all still 3rd hand conjecture on the presses part, none of this is more than a couple of steps up from " a bloke in the pub told me...."

    The clue is in the language, the Beeb are still saying things like "allegedly" and "according to leaked sources" and " eyewitness reports", which they then go on to report like hard fact.

    It's a very old journalistic trick, "close friends" and "Sources" have been saying stuff like this for decades. It's the possibility of scandal and tragedy that is driving this, not the fact of it.

    Just because it's the Beeb or the Grauniad that's reporting doesn't make it much better than the red-tops, they still have to sell papers and make ratings.
     
  20. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

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    #20

    Wasn't questioning the fact of it, only your deployment of the comment.

    Should have put a " ;) " after the reply to, sorry.
     
  21. AlBDamned macrumors 68030

    AlBDamned

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    #21
    From the BBC story.

    The leaked version said Mr de Menezes was being restrained by a community officer when he was shot by armed police.

    That in itself disputes that he was sitting down on the train.

    The BBC is taking the line The report suggests.... That is the only way to take this at the moment. Reporting is fine, but none of it is confirmed as factual - yet.

    Peter, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am not taking anything as read until the whole thing is stated as fact. There's too many discrepancies at the moment.
     
  22. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #22
    Yes I agree about waiting till all info is available.I wonder why the beeb is saying a community plod when the others are saying a member of the surveillence team.That bit doesn't make sense but suggests that there were two different teams,one who restrained him and then SO19 who arrived and shot the guy whilst the first guy was holding him in the seat.That officer was extremely lucky he didn't get shot as well.
     
  23. greatdevourer macrumors 68000

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    Aug 5, 2005
    #23
    Erm... yeah. Now. They don't except for the small numbers of Armed Police put in place usually near government buildings, but now in and around London, due to the attacks. My guess is you're an American who fails to realise that your gun:people ratio is higher than anywhere else in the world
     
  24. AlBDamned macrumors 68030

    AlBDamned

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    #24
    Yep, especially as three alleged shots of the 11 allegedly fired, allegedly missed.

    Most reports are saying the documents suggest this or allege that. None have come out and said: "Without doubt, this firearms office killed this person as he sat on a train".

    I also notice the Menezes' lawyer is now being quite vocal and accusatory in the press and on the news. That will really help things.
     
  25. garybUK Guest

    garybUK

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    #25
    Well.... he was in the country working illegally and the reports at the time were coroborating the police stories especially the jumping over the barriers.

    Wrong place at the wrong time I think but the police were right to defend our country, whatever anyone else says.
     

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