Looking for a Mac that can run high end graphics

[Cadkiller]

Group;

Okay since Apple will be officially supporting Windows on a Mac computer, I'm thinking of getting a Mac workstation now.
Would I be able to get a Mac workstation that can compete with the following windows based system?

Dual 30" LCD Dell or Apple (not sure which ones yet)
Dual 2.8 GHZ Dual Core Zeon Pentium 2X2MB L2 cache processors
4 GB of DDR2 SDRAM 400 MHZ ECC
ATI FireGL V7350 1GB video card
146 GB SCSI 15,000 RPM hard drive
320 MB SCSI integrated controller card

 

[dmw007]

Group;

Okay since Apple will be officially supporting Windows on a Mac computer, I'm thinking of getting a Mac workstation now.
Would I be able to get a Mac workstation that can compete with the following windows based system?

Dual 30" LCD Dell or Apple (not sure which ones yet)
Dual 2.8 GHZ Dual Core Zeon Pentium 2X2MB L2 cache processors
4 GB of DDR2 SDRAM 400 MHZ ECC
ATI FireGL V7350 1GB video card
146 GB SCSI 15,000 RPM hard drive
320 MB SCSI integrated controller card

A Power Mac G5 Quad will be able to easily compete with such a setup- but it can not run Windows. You need a Mac with an intel processor to run Windows- and the intel version of the Power Mac G5 is only slated to be released later this year.

 

[DMPDX]

Why would you want SCSI over SATA II? Besides the 15,000 rpm....?

 

[Cadkiller]

I just checked out the Mac G5 Quad system and it seems like it can compete with the system I'm looking to get. The price of such a system is almost as much as the system I'm pricing. The amount of ram you can put in that monster is amazing. If I only could afford getting that much ram for my system (16MB's = $10,000) WOW. The only potential problems I see, are the ATI 1GB video card, the SCSI 15,000 RPM hard drive and the 320 MB controller card.

I work with very large CAD files that can get up to 100 MB's or more in size. The SCSI hard drive and controller card allow for very fast transfer rates.

Why doesn't a Mac use SCSI or at least high RPM hard drives?
Can a SATA II compete with the SCSI on tranfer rates?
Does anyone know of the tranfer speed for the SATA II?

Thanks for the replies.

 

[generik]

Group;

Okay since Apple will be officially supporting Windows on a Mac computer, I'm thinking of getting a Mac workstation now.

A couple points to make:

1) Apple will be supporting Windows on Macs, yes
2) Support is limited to Intel based Macs
3) Even the most expensive PowerMac Quad today is not Intel based
4) Hence by logically deduction you can't buy a workstation today and have it run Windows "officially" using bootcamp.

What you really want to do is to wait till WWDC in August before committed to your purchase.

 

[CanadaRAM]

I just checked out the Mac G5 Quad system and it seems like it can compete with the system I'm looking to get. The price of such a system is almost as much as the system I'm pricing. The amount of ram you can put in that monster is amazing. If I only could afford getting that much ram for my system (16MB's = $10,000) WOW. The only potential problems I see, are the ATI 1GB video card, the SCSI 15,000 RPM hard drive and the 320 MB controller card.

I work with very large CAD files that can get up to 100 MB's or more in size. The SCSI hard drive and controller card allow for very fast transfer rates.

Why doesn't a Mac use SCSI or at least high RPM hard drives?
Can a SATA II compete with the SCSI on tranfer rates?
Does anyone know of the tranfer speed for the SATA II?

Thanks for the replies.

1) Don't buy your RAM and hard drives from Apple. Get the stock configuration, and then install RAM and drives purchased from reputable Mac-knowledgeable third part suppliers. You'll save thousands on a fully loaded machine

2) For Consumer and professional use, SATA I 7200 RPM 8 Mb cache IS high performance. Your needs are exceptional, and it would be foolish of Apple to offer your level of performance as standard.

You can install the SATA Western Digital Raptor drives, 10,000 RPM 73 Gb or 150 Gb. These are essentially SCSI 10K drives with a SATA controller instead. SATA 1 is nominally 150 MB/s. SATA II is nominally 300 MB/s however the PowerMacs support only SATA/150, although you can install third party SATA controller cards. The raw numbers however do not mean much -- performance is highly dependent on the nature of the workload and the data transfers. See http://www.storagereview.com for in depth discussions of drive performance.

3) I think you may have missed the salient point of a previous post -- the PowerMac Dual and Quad G5 machines do not and never will run Windows natively. They have PowerPC processors, not Intel processors. You will have to wait until later this year or early 2007 for the top of the line machines to go Intel.

 

[dejo]

1) Apple will be supporting Windows on Macs, yes

“Apple has no desire or plan to sell or support Windows, but many customers have expressed their interest to run Windows on Apple’s superior hardware now that we use Intel processors,” said Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing.

 

[generik]

“Apple has no desire or plan to sell or support Windows, but many customers have expressed their interest to run Windows on Apple’s superior hardware now that we use Intel processors,” said Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing.

Oh really? Then why else are they touting bootcamp as a feature in 10.5? "Look! A new feature that let's you dual boot erm.. we don't officially desire to support Windows.. but bootcamp supports Windows.. anyway it also supports Linux, just saying so you don't accuse us of supporting Windows!" (like anyone cares about Linux, seriously)

Apple's and Steve's ego aside, it is in Apple's very best interests to literally suck at the (whatever bit of anatomy) of the Windows/PC market. And that's what they are doing, today, as of this moment.

 

[dejo]

generik, I'll admit that Phil's statement seems to be at odds with today's Boot Camp release. Should be interesting times ahead as this all plays out.

 

[Cadkiller]

I didn't miss the fact that I can only run Windows on an Intel based Mac system. I know that I will have to wait for them to introduce these chips in their workstations before I buy it. I'm just looking into the possiblity of getting such a dual boot system for down the road.

Also when I said that Apple will support Windows OS, I meant that they're providing Window drivers .

 

[generik]

I look forward to getting an Octo-processor Mac Pro next year. Hopefully that will be sufficient to satisfy the minimum requirements for all the bloatware that Windows Vista ships with

 

[dmw007]

generik, I'll admit that Phil's statement seems to be at odds with today's Boot Camp release. Should be interesting times ahead as this all plays out.

It will indeed be interesting to see how this issue plays out.

 

[generik]

I didn't miss the fact that I can only run Windows on an Intel based Mac system. I know that I will have to wait for them to introduce these chips in their workstations before I buy it. I'm just looking into the possiblity of getting such a dual boot system down the road.

Also when I said that Apple will support Windows OS, I meant that they're providing Window drivers .

I wouldn't worry too much about Windows drivers, my guess is that the only thing that would work would probably be the build in iSights (which I doubt the workstations will have) and Frontrow (which I ALSO doubt the workstations will have!)

Everything else from Airport to Bluetooth to graphics cards to Intel chipsets... it is all standard PC fare that you can get the drivers for easily.

Unless of course Apple ships the next Mac Pro with a funky aluminium casing that comes complete with chasing LEDs controlled by some proprietary software in OSX, that would of course be unsupported, but I trust Apple's designers to have better taste than that

 

[dmw007]

I look forward to getting an Octo-processor Mac Pro next year.

Ah, a octo-processor Mac Pro.... ***DROOL****

Hopefully that will be sufficient to satisfy the minimum requirements for all the bloatware that Windows Vista ships with

Don't count on it!

 

[bousozoku]

Oh really? Then why else are they touting bootcamp as a feature in 10.5? "Look! A new feature that let's you dual boot erm.. we don't officially desire to support Windows.. but bootcamp supports Windows.. anyway it also supports Linux, just saying so you don't accuse us of supporting Windows!" (like anyone cares about Linux, seriously)

Apple's and Steve's ego aside, it is in Apple's very best interests to literally suck at the (whatever bit of anatomy) of the Windows/PC market. And that's what they are doing, today, as of this moment.

They're supporting the ability to run Windows or another operating system, not supporting Windows directly.

 

[skubish]

From the http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp:

Remember, Apple Computer does not sell or support Microsoft Windows.

Apple doesn't support Windows. They are basically doing this because:
1. They want to sell more macs
2. MS said that Vista won't support EFI.

 

[dmw007]

They're supporting the ability to run Windows or another operating system, not supporting Windows directly.

Exactly. So, don't go crying for help from Apple when you get the notorious Blue Screen of Death!

 

[bah-bah'd]

Why would you want SCSI over SATA II? Besides the 15,000 rpm....?

the workstation is probably pre-sataII

 

[Cadkiller]

Exactly. So, don't go crying for help from Apple when you get the notorious Blue Screen of Death!

You can't even call Microsoft for FREE when that happens.
I think they only give you 30 days of FREE support and after that they start charging.
They have the worst support I have ever seen.
I hope Apple takes care of their customers better than they do.

Autodesk used to be the same way until recently, they started providing direct support for their customers.
I hate when these companies develop a highly technical OS or program and sublet their support or provide very little technical assistance for FREE.

 

[dmw007]

You can't even call Microsoft for FREE when that happens.
I think they only give you 30 days of FREE support and after that they start charging.
They have the worst support I have ever seen.
I hope Apple takes care of their customers better than they do.

Rest assured Cadkiller, Apple takes very good care of their customers. The few times that I had to call up Apple I did not have to wait on hold longer than 2 minutes, always got someone who both lived in the US and spoke perfect english, and they were able to quickly handle my
question(s)/problem(s).

 

[jefhatfield]

the quad can probably kill just about any PC, but it is pricey with a lot of RAM, even if you put it in

*...sure a dual amd athlon 64 X2 (4 64 bit processors in all), maxed out with RAM may beat the quad G5, but it may also be in the same high end price range once you get those many gigs of RAM into it

if you are serious about your work, get the quad G5...it will be a good investment

who knows when apple will bring their high end desktops to the intel architecture...and then who knows if that will be a marked improvement and relatively bug free

intel on mac is newer than PPC for sure, but what type of intel based machine would it take to beat a quad G5?...and would it be worth the price?

also being an early adopter of any computer on a new platform is not a good idea if output is key to school or work, or both

 

[emaja]

They're supporting the ability to run Windows or another operating system, not supporting Windows directly.

Exactly. There is a big difference between allowing a Mac to boot into Windows and Apple giving those customers support and assistance.

If by support you mean "allow it to happen," then Apple is suppporting Windows right now.

 

[Cadkiller]

what type of intel based machine would it take to beat a quad G5?...and would it be worth the price?

Check these out. They're about the same price.

 

[jefhatfield]

Check these out. They're about the same price.

those are both very capable machines...i will take one of each