'Loop Fob' Allows Swipeless Credit Card Purchases at Any Traditional Swipe Terminal

[thomasdeal]

iBeacons and Loop

This will fail. Don't add clutter, reduce it.

iBeacons is the future. It uses Bluetooth, which is a fairly standard technology. It has greater range and is secure. When Apple unveils their payment solution, using iBeacons and TouchID it will be amazing.

Perhaps you don't know what Loop does? It's a payment and wallet platform, not a device that you carry around with you so you can get special offers while your in a store. IBeacons is not a wallet nor does it have the ability to make a payment. By the way, the Charge case version of the Loop is Bluetooth.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

Irrelevant concept until a full digital wallet solution is a reality.

 

[thomasdeal]

Would rather use Coin?

Would rather use Coin.

https://onlycoin.com

There is no Coin yet. Loop is here and it works. Loop is much more than just a device to carry your credit cards around. It's includes a Wallet to carry all of your Id's, credit cards, loyalty cards, and gift cards around with you. Billions of dollars a year in gift cards go unused because it's in a drawer at home when you need it. No more if you have the Loop.

 

[RabbitLuvr]

1. Loop is working with Gas and ATM vendors. Gas stations do have normal POS inside that will work with your Loop.
2. Many restaurants are now using the remote pay terminals that waitpeople carry around. Even the pizza delivery guy carries a POS with him.

1. But then I'd have to go inside and wait in line to pre-pay, which takes longer than pulling a card out of my wallet at the pump; and I like to always completely fill my tank, which I can't guess down the penny.

2. No restaurant near me has remote pay terminals, not a single one. My pizza delivery guy does not have one, either. Orders have to be paid for with a card at at time of order and the delivery guy just brings the receipt to get a signature.

 

[thomasdeal]

Full digital wallet

Irrelevant concept until a full digital wallet solution is a reality.

There's been lots of full digital wallets. None of them have succeeded because of Acceptance, meaning the ability for merchants to accept them without changing out their POS systems. Loop covers that last bit that that addresses acceptance. So, there is a full digital wallet now. It's Loop.

 

[KdParker]

The idea is that you pre register all your credit card with the machine, then information then stored in your phone. The plastic tab idea is actually new (even for the company), when I learned about this project late last year they only had the iPhone case option. I don't know much about the plastic tab thing, but the iPhone case idea I think it's more useful.

Could be.

Also the the case would have to be at the right price point for those people that like to use a case with the phone.

 

[Drumjim85]

1. Loop is working with Gas and ATM vendors. Gas stations do have normal POS inside that will work with your Loop.
2. Many restaurants are now using the remote pay terminals that waitpeople carry around. Even the pizza delivery guy carries a POS with him.
3. Loop is working and testing each day to get closer to that 100%.

You obviously work for them, so tell me what happens when the whole industry move to Chip and Pin next year.

 

[thomasdeal]

Not stupid

This IS stupid. You're going to spend more time trying to get that thing not to move when swiping than you will actually using it. Another thing to stick in your pockets too.

Plus, you absolutely have no time to fumble with an app in the checkout. That just adds to store traffic which is already bad enough.

Debit/Credit Cards are not hard to carry if you have the right wallet setup. If anything, ditch your loyalty cards first and stick those in Passbook/1Password/oneSafe/etc to make it lighter. Most places can bring your account up with a phone number or simply the number anyway.

Not stupid at all. It's the first "full on" digital wallet. No special devices for the merchant, no asking a clerk to do anything special, just point and click or touch. It solves the "last mile or inch" issue, and if you don't like the idea of the Fob then wait for the ChargeCase. I ordered a Fob and a Case on Kickstarter. Been using the Fob for about 3 weeks. Over 50 transactions at
20+ merchants. It worked everywhere, every time. I used it at Starbucks, and the clerk was relieved it wasn't using the Starbucks app, because I quote "Thank goodness I didn't have to do anything. I haven't been trained yet".

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

I'm interested in this. Will it let me ditch things like my school and library card (which I just swipe at the door to get in) and my debit, credit, and membership cards? Can it store my gift cards?

If it can do all of that, I could throw out most of my wallet except my driver's license, my military ID, and some emergency cash.

Regrettably, I have no budget right now for anything. I just ran the numbers for the rest of the year and found that I'll be in debt until mid September.

On the plus side, that means I'll be able to make some luxury purchases right around the time the iPhone 6 is hopefully released, which means I'll know whether Apple solves this problem some other way before 2015.

 

[rillrill]

Say you worked at a restaurant, take a customer's card, and copy it to this machine... Could you use the card to purchase things? Seems like a thief's dream.

 

[Jessica Lares]

Not stupid at all. It's the first "full on" digital wallet. No special devices for the merchant, no asking a clerk to do anything special, just point and click or touch. It solves the "last mile or inch" issue, and if you don't like the idea of the Fob then wait for the ChargeCase. I ordered a Fob and a Case on Kickstarter. Been using the Fob for about 3 weeks. Over 50 transactions at
20+ merchants. It worked everywhere, every time. I used it at Starbucks, and the clerk was relieved it wasn't using the Starbucks app, because I quote "Thank goodness I didn't have to do anything. I haven't been trained yet".

I cannot take you seriously when you've only joined this forum today, especially when I've just got done reading the review on The Verge, a website which I take the opinion of seriously.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/19/5425494/loop-wallet-mobile-payments-review

Loop’s biggest problem is that it’s a waste of time. It feels magical to use, but isn’t worth the additional 10 or 15 seconds it takes to explain to each and every cashier. At a bar or restaurant, handing over my phone or Fob while yelling instructions over the chatter of other patrons was both awkward and impractical. And even if a friendly cashier doesn’t ask any questions before trying out Loop, they almost always ask questions afterwards. I felt like I was not only wasting my time, but the time of the people in line behind me, like the main character in that one VISA commercial.

 

[Drumjim85]

I'm interested in this. Will it let me ditch things like my school and library card (which I just swipe at the door to get in) and my debit, credit, and membership cards? Can it store my gift cards?

Every time you want to change what is on the fob, you have to connect it to your phone's headphone port.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

There's been lots of full digital wallets. None of them have succeeded because of Acceptance, meaning the ability for merchants to accept them without changing out their POS systems. Loop covers that last bit that that addresses acceptance. So, there is a full digital wallet now. It's Loop.

How does that impact my ability to stop carrying a wallet?
A full wallet solution includes government issued ID and as long a someone must carry a government issued ID they will carry a wallet thus making digital wallets more or less pointless.

 

[AstronomyiPhone]

Or...Coin.

 

[thomasdeal]

You obviously work for them, so tell me what happens when the whole industry move to Chip and Pin next year.

When you say chip and pin, I assume you mean EMV. That would be the same technology that came out 15 years ago that is still at 5% acceptance in the US, and all EMV cards still have a mag stripe. As the EMV card still has a mag stripe it is still subject to skimming by scanning devices. Sorry, but I don't see millions of POS devices being changed out by next year. Hasn't happened in 15 years, and isn't going to happen next year. Same or better security with acceptance by merchants.

 

[redhawk87]

this is a cool idea, but does not seem like it would be that practical and it looks bulky. If they trimmed down the size so I can just attach it to my keyring like most other fobs and also made it so I could pay without my phone attached, that would be cool!

 

[Drumjim85]

When you say chip and pin, I assume you mean EMV. That would be the same technology that came out 15 years ago that is still at 5% acceptance in the US, and all EMV cards still have a mag stripe. As the EMV card still has a mag stripe it is still subject to skimming by scanning devices. Sorry, but I don't see millions of POS devices being changed out by next year. Hasn't happened in 15 years, and isn't going to happen next year. Same or better security with acceptance by merchants.

Yes, EMV. It's not strong in the US, but a big push from MasterCard and Visa should help. Any retailer not moved over by 2015 will have the liability placed on them if something happens. And that should light a fire under a lot of the bigger retailers. Target is about to spend $100 million on the upgrade.
EMV cards don't have to have a magnetic strip on the back, but some do simply as a fallback.
And this still doesn't answer what will happen when EMV takes over.

 

[xboxphanatic]

I went ahead and ordered one. I'm interested in mobile payments, but the great thing about this is that it works now without an infrastructure change. Yes, there are several things coming in the near future and once that happens then I'll just throw my $40 fob away, but in the meantime I can give this a try. It's a pretty small price to pay even if it is only useful until 2015. It's definitely a version 1 type product that could use some revisions, but it interested me even more than the isys case that I was originally thinking of picking up this year since I don't have to wait for every place to get NFC equipped registers. I mainly use one card around town anyway, so the card switching drawback isn't a big deal to me either.

 

[nbppp2]

Look at the video.

The "Plastic Tab" is only to load your cards in the phone. You need an accessory like a keychain fob, or a custom and special iphone case with what I assume is NFC communication circuit.

The picture is misleading.

I have been watching Loop for a while. They don't use NFC. Otherwise it wouldn't work at existing card readers, which is their main point. As their website says "Accepted at tens of millions of retailers around the world. Works at 90% of POS terminals that accept mag stripe cards." No NFC here.

The fob will read cards & can create the 'virtual swipe' if you want. If you want to switch the card the fob is using you have to connect it to the headphone port & tell the app to switch cards. If you want you can also purchase the case (5, 5s only) which then allows you to switch cards with ease via the app.

IMO, I don't think the fob is all that useful as an option for the 'virtual swipe'. The benefit of Loop is them integrating their technology with hardware manufacturers. No need for a case, the fob stays at home to load cards. POS systems don't need to be updated (which as they point out is the main problem with NFC tech). I plan on purchasing a case in hopes that this will become default in both the iPhone & Android devices.

As others have pointed out the Loop solution doesn't work for gas stations & sit-down type restaurants. Coin is a better solution for that arena. It may be a better solution overall, I haven't made up my own mind yet. I figure it will probably be like iPhone vs iPad, both filling a similar area, but covering slightly different needs. In the end I will probably have both.

I don't know what effect chip & pin will have on this. I assume when that becomes big, both (if they still exist) will integrate a chip into their systems to work with this standard.

 

[reclusive46]

2. No restaurant near me has remote pay terminals, not a single one. My pizza delivery guy does not have one, either. Orders have to be paid for with a card at at time of order and the delivery guy just brings the receipt to get a signature.

That will soon change with EMV chip cards coming to the US as it means any type of card could need a PIN (Credit or debit) (Although the majority of US Visa/MC/Amex issuers will be doing chip and signature, international visitors, Discover cards and some US cards will need a PIN), which means generally restaurants will have to bring the machine to your table or you will have to get up and pay anyway.

On the flip side, the main flaw with this is that this won't work with the chip cards as the magnetic stripe on a chip card has a code on it which says (Only allow a swipe if the terminal doesn't support chip cards). So by October 2015 this will be defunct and NFC mobile payments will be widely accepted like they are here in the UK and Australia as pretty much all new chip terminals support contactless.

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I don't know what effect chip & pin will have on this. I assume when that becomes big, both (if they still exist) will integrate a chip into their systems to work with this standard.

This device won't be compatible with chip and pin cards at all. You can't clone and re-transmit chip card data (Thats kind of the whole point of chip cards), so it will be impossible anything like this work. NFC is really the only EMV (Chip card standard) compliant option.

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When you say chip and pin, I assume you mean EMV. That would be the same technology that came out 15 years ago that is still at 5% acceptance in the US, and all EMV cards still have a mag stripe. As the EMV card still has a mag stripe it is still subject to skimming by scanning devices. Sorry, but I don't see millions of POS devices being changed out by next year. Hasn't happened in 15 years, and isn't going to happen next year. Same or better security with acceptance by merchants.

You would surprised at how many terminals in the US are already chip card enabled. Just look for

the slot. While most of the slots aren't yet enabled (Even my international EMV cards are still swiped) some are (Some Walmarts and many small businesses that use chase payment tech) and most can enabled via a software update (Usually remote).

Also bare in mind that you can't use the magnetic stripe off a chip card on a terminal that accepts chip cards, so that could quite easily cause issues with this device once your card has been replaced.

The only real way this could succeed is if they partner with banks and banks issue virtual magnetic stripe data card to be used.

 

[Sam...]

Credit card hackers

I guess my question is this, can it prevent a debacle like what happened with Target. Hackers obtaining your information compromising the card raider. Can you make this process more secure than just wiping your debit or credit card as usual.

 

[aristobrat]

I guess my question is this can it prevent a debacle like what happened with Target. Hackers obtaining your information compromising servers to get your card information.

No. This thing acts like a real credit card, which means your card number is transmitted in clear text to the pin pad.

Target, like most companies, uses the cash register to encrypt the card number, which means the pin pad has to transmit the card number in clear text to the cash register.

It was malware running on the register that was scraping the credit card numbers out of RAM before the register encrypted them.

 

[BornAgainApple]

Without the blessings of the major players (Visa, MC, AE) this thing is going nowhere.

 

[Sam...]

No. This thing acts like a real credit card, which means your card number is transmitted in clear text to the pin pad.

Target, like most companies, uses the cash register to encrypt the card number, which means the pin pad has to transmit the card number in clear text to the cash register.

It was malware running on the register that was scraping the credit card numbers out of RAM before the register encrypted them.

Then like others here I don't see the attraction to this product. I was becoming interested thinking that it could make a more secure transaction than what we have now.

 

[Drumjim85]

Then like others here I don't see the attraction to this product. I was becoming interested thinking that it could make a more secure transaction than what we have now.

That will come in 2015 to the US with EMV chipped cards.