I think apple could do better. There is no reason there should be this many problems with computers. Screen problems, power supply problems, the list is long.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Lots of Complaints about Apple quality...what gives?
- Thread starter corbin_a2
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
plinden said:
Fine then.
"My MacBook Pro is possibly the best computer purchase I've ever made. Not only is it gorgeous, it's extremely fast, has been rock-solid, pretty much glitch free, and as a bonus I just got a pretty decent gaming PC 'for free'!"
(I really should start a thread for this..)
I've owned 3 Mac systems over the years (not counting ones I've resurrected from peoples trash), and have worked them to death and have never experienced any major problems except for:
- on my Powermac 7200 the Quantum Fireball Hard Drive died 2 years into ownership (which was common for those)
- My applevision 1710AV (?) monitor died just about 3 years into ownership. To be fair, the Sony monitor I bought to replace that one died about 3.5 years into ownership.
That's about it. Only good experiences, compared to products I've bought from other companies the ratio of good to bad is excellent.
Of course I probably just jinxed myself now.
- on my Powermac 7200 the Quantum Fireball Hard Drive died 2 years into ownership (which was common for those)
- My applevision 1710AV (?) monitor died just about 3 years into ownership. To be fair, the Sony monitor I bought to replace that one died about 3.5 years into ownership.
That's about it. Only good experiences, compared to products I've bought from other companies the ratio of good to bad is excellent.
Of course I probably just jinxed myself now.
Of the 8 or so macs I have owned, my 1.5ghz 12" PowerBook has been the worst. The screen has really bright corners, 15" powerbook white spots, a very concentrated white spot, 21 pixels that won't turn completely black and one spot that has a green tint to it when it is on a black screen. Apple has refused to replace my screen even though it is well within its warranty period. They claim that it isn't noticeable under "normal usage" and they suggest that I purchase Apple Care just in case the problem gets worse... So I suppose seven out of eight isn't a bad number, but in all honesty, this Powerbook has been one of the worst mac experiences I have had. I really don't see me buying another Apple Laptop because of the terrible support I have received.
But I really love my First Gen Dual 1.8ghz G5!
But I really love my First Gen Dual 1.8ghz G5!
My Mac experience. I have owned the following machines.
- Powermac 7200 - Perfect
- Powermac 7500 - Perfect
- Powermac 8100 - Perfect
- Powermac 8500 - Perfect. Had 3 of them.
- Powermac 8600 - Perfect
- Powermac 9500 - Perfect
- Powermac G4 1.42ghz - Loud but perfect
- Powermac G5 2ghz - Power supply problem. Fixed.
- Powerbook G4 Pizmo - 1st one bad, second one Perfect.
- Powerbook G4 400mhz - DVD sticking
- Powerbook G4 1ghz superdrive - Screen bad would flicker on/off. Overheating.
- Powerbook G4 1.67ghz 15" - Perfect
iPods - Out of the 3 I have owned, 2 had problems.
- Powermac 7200 - Perfect
- Powermac 7500 - Perfect
- Powermac 8100 - Perfect
- Powermac 8500 - Perfect. Had 3 of them.
- Powermac 8600 - Perfect
- Powermac 9500 - Perfect
- Powermac G4 1.42ghz - Loud but perfect
- Powermac G5 2ghz - Power supply problem. Fixed.
- Powerbook G4 Pizmo - 1st one bad, second one Perfect.
- Powerbook G4 400mhz - DVD sticking
- Powerbook G4 1ghz superdrive - Screen bad would flicker on/off. Overheating.
- Powerbook G4 1.67ghz 15" - Perfect
iPods - Out of the 3 I have owned, 2 had problems.
Dont Hurt Me said:
Oh how I strongly agree with you. Unfortunately for the companies quality workers cost a lot more. Most of these factories have cheap/unqualified/under-educated workers (cheap labor) and all this so that an American CEO can make another extra milion or two. Greed is the word. How much money is enough?
I just don't buy it how American companies are saying that USA is lacking educated engineers or programmers and how they ship those jobs to China or India. I know too many unemployed educated people that can't find a decent job in US. Of course a person in USA won't work for $1 per hour because the cost of living in USA just doesn't permit that. All in all, companies are cheap, thinking that they can save more money that way, but language barriers and cultural differences will bite them in the ass.
This is an actual problem of USA (which in the long run won't be good for average working American) but I won't go deep in to it, but Apple is not the only company that does it.
Considering the quality of many American mades things, cars for example, I would never buy a Macintosh made in the USA.
Sutekidane said:
Quality or not but you are supporting your country. I don't think that it is a good idea for USA to become just a service oriented economy. Manufacturing is what made USA great.
To be fair, someone posted the repair numbers as presented by polling by several major magazines, and Apple's level of quality was only 1% better than Dell, who I believe we can all agree ships more machines by several orders of magnitude.WildCowboy said:
So I wouldn't be so quick to laud Apple as the last bastion of quality within the computer industry; they're not that far ahead. (And if you count for statisctial variance, then they're actually no better than anyone else.)
blitzkrieg79 said:
I agree. Apple charged $3000 for a computer when they were making them here. Now they cut there cost considerably and still charging the same. Meanwhile USA looses jobs and Chinamen are happy.
You got to be kidding, ever hear of Honda or Toyota? both made in America by Americans. The problem is American bean counter ran corporations who only care about todays profits. Look at GM they still cant build a car with high mpg to go against Honda /Toyota because all they care about is todays profits from gas hog SUVs. The American worker is a good worker, the govt who is ran by big business is selling us out at every chance so those CEO's can rake in millions while employing the chinamen for nothing. Pure Greed.Sutekidane said:
My favorite Mac was a Powermac 733 built in California, It was perfect and is still in use today.
Lets just face it the American companys and Executives are greedy bastards who dont give a hoot about our country,its people or anything but the dollar and the chinamen has made them richer. Low bidder(chinamen) doesnt mean quality it means volume. I must admit i have seen more issues and problems with Apple ever since they went made in China.
blitzkrieg79 said:
There is never an amount of 'money' which is enough. Capitalism and the corporations which maintain it are legally bound to extract higher and higher surplus from the relationship between captial and labour. The fundamental driving force behind technological change, is capitalisms neccesity to constantly increase profit, which is many ways motivates social change.
blitzkrieg79 said:
This is the nature of the new global capitalism, capital (money) has become decentralised, globalised and liberated from any fixed abode. Conversely, labour has not. This has become disadvantageous for labour, corporations can outsource operations to far away export processing zones, whilst you and your friends have to stay at home and face unemployment whilst the welfare system is constantly being eroded and 'restructured'. Some people see profit as extracting something from a commodity or service in excess of the original cost, thus pure profit is extracting something from 'nothing', but there are always hidden costs.
blitzkrieg79 said:
It is indeed problematic for the USA and certainly your future looks grim considering a third of your economy is financed from your debts, not to mention the massive federal reserves deficit, failing welfare state, massive social problems and substantive inequalities of wealth. Britian is fairing little better, and even though we are vunerable to the external shocks of the global economy and are losing our jobs to cheaper overseas labour forces, our Government is still preaching the neo-liberalism ******** that Thatcher and Regan promoted in the 1970s. Much to the pleasure of the corporations, we are all now competing with each other on a global basis - Your Chinese equivelents do the job twice as fast, work twice as hard and are paid fifty times less, tough **** for us suckers - but whose going to keep buying shiney new apple macs when we're all under/un-employed? Such is the logic of captialism, and ****, I must sound like a total Marxist lol.
XP Defector said:
I definately agree with you on all accounts and to repeat of what you said, If people in USA won't have jobs, they won't have money, and they won't be able to buy any of those products from companies who took their manufacturing away from their base customers. Simple as that.
And in all reality, an American worker can't really compete with Asian cheap labor as life in US is simply way more expensive. So it's not even competition, I don't know how to call it but I don't think competition is the right word.
Just to add all american cars, Yes all of them apart from the ford GT are rubbish. They are pooo. In the UK nobody buys american cars becuase they are made of plastic and iron and are as advanced as crocidiles. American cars have no quality what so ever. The latest Grand Cherokees are of better quality but they are made in Austria. It seems that like mercedes apple is stepping more towards profits and stepping away from quality. Volkswagen are losing £5millionish or mayb £2millionish on every Veyron produced, yet they still make them. All i want is a charger with my ipod and maybe a case not just the ipod and a crappy usb lead...
My take on the perceived increase in complaints about Apple quality are three-fold.
First, Apple products are sexy. With the popularity of the iPod, the general public definetly have been sensitized to slick design and the sense of "affordable luxury". Compared to a different computer brand, people probably have higher expectations to what they are buying from Apple.
Second, Apple is growing it's consumer base and as a result, I suspect they have loosened up manufacturing tolerances. I don't believe it has anything to do with being made in China as much as it does with trying to maintain their margins.
Lastly, as already mentioned, people are more likely to post their concerns/complaints in forums seeking help rather than when everything is going A-OK.
However, I do think that the second point about a real drop in build quality could be true. I recently purchased an Intel iMac, and I exchanged three of them due to problems not with the design, but things that point to sloppy assembly (misaligned and scratched cases). It may be just one data point, but it did contrast with my previous buying experiences from Apple dating all the way back to my Apple //e.
First, Apple products are sexy. With the popularity of the iPod, the general public definetly have been sensitized to slick design and the sense of "affordable luxury". Compared to a different computer brand, people probably have higher expectations to what they are buying from Apple.
Second, Apple is growing it's consumer base and as a result, I suspect they have loosened up manufacturing tolerances. I don't believe it has anything to do with being made in China as much as it does with trying to maintain their margins.
Lastly, as already mentioned, people are more likely to post their concerns/complaints in forums seeking help rather than when everything is going A-OK.
However, I do think that the second point about a real drop in build quality could be true. I recently purchased an Intel iMac, and I exchanged three of them due to problems not with the design, but things that point to sloppy assembly (misaligned and scratched cases). It may be just one data point, but it did contrast with my previous buying experiences from Apple dating all the way back to my Apple //e.
I've got a apple iPod 30gig and the scroll button thing is all wonky as well. I also thought they could have developed material that was less scratch prone, my phone and casio watch have lasted years and aren't half as scratched as my iPod, even though I take extra-care with it. Beyond that, the actual design and function are beautiful.
Chris Bangle said:
"In the UK nobody buys American cars?" Sorry, it's one of Fords biggest markets, and the American cars sold in the UK are much nicer and fuel efficient then what they give us in the states. Ford Europe had a profitable year at the same time Ford North America lost millions.
"American cars have no quality what so ever." Wrong again. Actually that belongs to UK, Korean, and CHINA auto manufacturers.
http://www.plasticsnews.com/china/english/headlines2.html?id=1143141997
True, the US auto industry is not at the same level as Japan, but saying that "American cars have no quality what so ever." is just a ignorant statement.
Goto: ford.co.uk and look at the cars that we can't have in the US.
corbin_a2 said:
Most Fords sold in the UK arnt built in America, Apart from the mustang and maybe the explorer thing. Im talking about cars built in america. They have no soul or passion. The Jaguar Xj built in the UK has more quality than all american cars put together. http://www.jaguar.co.uk I agree with you on the Chinease and Korean car front, something like a Perodua Kelisa is not a car but a washing machine. Go to the dashboard of any american built car and you could use it as a drum kit. The wood trim in Lincolns and Cadillacs looks like its come out of a horse's rear end. To stop this argument all i will say is that German cars cannot be beaten. BMW,Audi,Some Merc's,ummmm Skoda, they are of unbeatable quality, just like the imac G4.
(yes I am saying that the imac G4 is like a Skoda but thats not a bad thing)
I know Apple products feel and look amazing but improve the quality please fellas.
corbin_a2 said:
I think the point is that these cars are designed and built by Europeans in Europe. Is Saab an "American" car because the company is owned by GM?
Or speaking of GM, a classic example is their purchase of Subaru with an eye to getting their mitts on some top drawer AWD technology. Alas, poor GM couldn't engineer its way out of a paper bag, so despite stumping up a load of cash for Subaru's engines they were unable to do anything constructive with them (ironically Saab actually made a half decent attempt). AFAIK, Toyota have now bought up GM's shares.
So keep the cash coming, buy the right companies, let them do their design and manufacturing thing and everyone can enjoy the classic all-American motor experience.
blitzkrieg79 said:
I don't think my country needs further supporting, I think my taxes are enough, if not too much already, and just being able to think that makes me as american as apple pie.
MacTruck said:I agree. Apple charged $3000 for a computer when they were making them here. Now they cut there cost considerably and still charging the same. Meanwhile USA looses jobs and Chinamen are happy.
I dont think its as simple as that. I agree that computers just became too expensive to build in the USA due not only to labor costs but rent, fixed costs as well. When Apple expanded to China, and by the way not ALL computers come from China. Some are actually made in Singapore or Taiwan and quality checked in different places. Apple has call centres around the globe.
What im trying to say that yes Apple did cut cost in their labor but they have put a significant amount of investments into these new factories and call centres and offices and they have to send employees there as well which means costs for the mean time may not be so low as you think.
I agree that there is a cost/quality proportionality in say building a computer in China or say Japan. Ofcourse intead of employing one Japanese worker, a company can probably employ like 50-100 Chinese factory workers but the quality will be hugely different too.
And I dont think Chinamen are all that happy either. Why would they be happy workign in a frickin factory when maybe some of them are dreaming to be a Steve Jobs one day but has to feed himself and has no money or time to do anything.
Its all *Your* fault
The American consumer.. just wants everything cheap these days. "Oh, hey look! A dvd player for 35 bucks!!! Lets buy that instead of the $80 Sony one! Who cares if it works only for 6 months?!!"
I don't think American consumers were so cheap a few years ago.. I mean, these days.. its just crazy!
Thats the mentality every consumer in this country has, and the manufacturers have resorted to that by moving manufacturing, etc. to offshore locations.
I wonder how many of you would complain if Apple started manufacturing their laptops in the USA, and as a result of which.. an MBP was $3500? I don't even want to think about the number of threads which would compare a comparable Dell laptop's price to an MBP's.
You asked for a cheaper product.. and thats what you get. A 'cheap' product.. (No, I'm not talking about Apple products here..well not all of them)
I have had 5 ipods.. and all of them died within a few months. I will never buy another ipod again. Yes, I still purchase apple hardware(computers), but I hope that they don't bring the quality down for pricing reasons. I, as a professional, would gladly pay $4000 for a top of the line MBP, if it was built in the US, with absolutely stringent quality measures.
Why does Sony have such good quality? Because they're not driving down prices like other manufacturers are. My Sony (and Panasonic) VCRs.. from the 80s, still work fine and have never needed servicing.
Unfortunately, if Apple gets caught up in the pricing battle to increase their marketshare.. it will eventually degrade the quality of their products.
The American consumer.. just wants everything cheap these days. "Oh, hey look! A dvd player for 35 bucks!!! Lets buy that instead of the $80 Sony one! Who cares if it works only for 6 months?!!"
I don't think American consumers were so cheap a few years ago.. I mean, these days.. its just crazy!
Thats the mentality every consumer in this country has, and the manufacturers have resorted to that by moving manufacturing, etc. to offshore locations.
I wonder how many of you would complain if Apple started manufacturing their laptops in the USA, and as a result of which.. an MBP was $3500? I don't even want to think about the number of threads which would compare a comparable Dell laptop's price to an MBP's.
You asked for a cheaper product.. and thats what you get. A 'cheap' product.. (No, I'm not talking about Apple products here..well not all of them)
I have had 5 ipods.. and all of them died within a few months. I will never buy another ipod again. Yes, I still purchase apple hardware(computers), but I hope that they don't bring the quality down for pricing reasons. I, as a professional, would gladly pay $4000 for a top of the line MBP, if it was built in the US, with absolutely stringent quality measures.
Why does Sony have such good quality? Because they're not driving down prices like other manufacturers are. My Sony (and Panasonic) VCRs.. from the 80s, still work fine and have never needed servicing.
Unfortunately, if Apple gets caught up in the pricing battle to increase their marketshare.. it will eventually degrade the quality of their products.
Kaiser Phoenix said:
I beg to differ..working in a factory all day and getting paid is better than doing nothing and just dreaming! Some of them may be dreaming to be Steve Jobs or whoever.. but most of them are happy to be working and providing for their families,rather than be stripped off of their lands/crops by corrupt landlords or barons.
China's population is huge.. they've done the right thing by channeling all this manpower into productivity. Right now, quality concerns are there but I'm sure (hopefully) they will improve.
The trouble with China ....
China's population is huge.. they've done the right thing by channeling all this manpower into productivity. Right now, quality concerns are there but I'm sure (hopefully) they will improve.[/QUOTE]
... putting all of its efforts into productivity is finite resources. China & India cannot follow the developed European & American model or the world will die. The capital model has to change. Less throwaway new things and a greater emphasis on the maintainance, repair and improvement of goods. My 16 year old Volvo is still going good at 360,000K (200,000 miles) It's had no service for 2 years and she drives like new. So why not a G5 board in an old iMac 233? Less soldering in and keep the upgrade path open. Good thread.
China's population is huge.. they've done the right thing by channeling all this manpower into productivity. Right now, quality concerns are there but I'm sure (hopefully) they will improve.[/QUOTE]
... putting all of its efforts into productivity is finite resources. China & India cannot follow the developed European & American model or the world will die. The capital model has to change. Less throwaway new things and a greater emphasis on the maintainance, repair and improvement of goods. My 16 year old Volvo is still going good at 360,000K (200,000 miles) It's had no service for 2 years and she drives like new. So why not a G5 board in an old iMac 233? Less soldering in and keep the upgrade path open. Good thread.