Love my Mac but the apps aren't there.......

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by jrichie, Feb 14, 2007.

  1. jrichie macrumors regular

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    #1
    I am an architect and am used to the PC apps [Autocad, Revit and 3DS Max]. Archicad has an uncertain future in my opinion, so I don't want to waste time with it [and it is the only option on the mac, really]

    I run both Bootcamp and OSX to work and love my Mac to bits, however I have become sick of OSX for my business, and am now going to commit 100% to XP for work [I have used macs for a fair while now]

    The reasons are

    1. It is vastly easier to get a decent network going with XP [for me anyway].

    2. All the software I really need runs on PC only.

    3. Outlook for PC is great and compatible with the rest of the world.

    4. Is just as fast, and crashes the same amount of times, no matter what people say.

    5. Vista is basically OSX visually, which was my main draw.

    I really do love using OSX but have now come to the conclusion that it is not a practical solution for me. The dual boot is an absolute pain.

    Do you guys think I am throwing in the towel in too easily, or does anyone else get sick of bootcamp.

    I just hope Parallels gets 3D support etc. otherwise it will have to be a microsoft future for me.............
     
  2. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #2
    yea i know what you mean. if you need a pc for pc apps for work then by all means use a pc. I know i tend to use windows when i need to get some serious engineering work done as os x simply doesnt have the apps i need
     
  3. gauchogolfer macrumors 603

    gauchogolfer

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    #3
    Sounds to me like a PC is the way to go for you. At least at work. I'd of course keep a Mac around at home to have something soothing to look forward to in the evenings.
     
  4. zephead macrumors 68000

    zephead

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    #4
    Instead of getting rid of the Mac, you could just set it to auto-boot to XP. Or if you don't want it, my parents need a new computer :p.
     
  5. jrichie thread starter macrumors regular

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    #5
    I guess I figuered that OSX could be my 'home' computer and XP for work.

    The problem I have is this is not how it should be. It gets frustrating, and OSX for me does not and never has felt like a place where I can be productive.

    This is a big shame, considering the money I invest in Apple and their products. One benefit now is that my Sony Ericsson M800i phone will actually work, and I can get some work done.

    Anyone else work like this?? XP for work and OSX for home........
     
  6. pengu macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    1. I dont know know what the heck you're doing but Windows networking is not what i would call "easy" to setup for a non-IT person. osx you plug it in and it works.

    2. I dont know your business so i cant comment.

    3. Outlook is the worst possible mail client you could be using. It's either (Depending on version/service pack) completely wide open and full of security holes, or microsoft have made it "secure" by removing half the functionality.

    4. I dont know what you're doing to OSX or how much you actually USE xp, but my XP machine at work crashes or hangs at least once a week, my G5 hangs MAYBE once every few months.

    5. Vista is a "cheap" (meaning not much value put on the finer details, not cheap to purchase) ripoff of OSX. Its the same if you consider a Mercedes AMG coupé the same as a toyota with two doors welded shut.


    If you need to use XP for work, fine, do that, but dont try to justify it to yourself the way microsoft loving weenies "defend" XP.
     
  7. gauchogolfer macrumors 603

    gauchogolfer

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    #7
    Well, you said yourself that it's all about the software. If it's really important to you, then I'd demand Mac support from the developers. I don't see how Apple is involved at all, frankly. I'm a scientist and I am very productive on my Powerbook, more so than in Windows. The difference is that the software I want is available for OS X. That's where your focus should be.
     
  8. zephead macrumors 68000

    zephead

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    #8
    This is a Mac site, but that's just uncalled for. He needs to use it for work; It's not like he chooses to. Who would choose to use Windows if they were not in any way forced to? And Windows is really a roll of the dice - it could work fine for some people, and for some people it works like crap.
     
  9. pengu macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    I dont deny that he needs to use it. if you read my post you would see that.

    If you need to use XP for work, fine, do that, but dont try to justify it to yourself the way microsoft loving weenies "defend" XP.
     
  10. jrichie thread starter macrumors regular

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    #10
    I must state that I always have and will support macs over PC's, due to the integrated software / hardware, industrial design and OSX.

    However, I can stand back and look at the benefits of both systems without getting rude and defensive. and be a mac fan boy.

    In reality, I haven't had an issue with a PC for a very long time, regarding stability. This includes Outlook.

    Mail for me is poor when it comes to productivity in comparison to Outlook. When working with others I have issues with attachments, signatures, fonts....

    Basically, I got more done when using a straight PC at a previous office than a Mac [with bootcamp]. This is the bottom line. It is a constant frustration.

    Basically if the software you use day to day is not available, using a mac becomes a nightmare no matter how you defend it.

    When working, you obviously need access to all files, email, internet + software. It does not make sense to switch about, which is my problem.

    BTW I sorted a network with XP between 3 Macs in bootcamp in about 10 minutes! It took me a few hours and stress to get networking in OSX as I wanted it, and then all the machines wouldn't shut down properly and everything ran slowly - so please don't suggest that XP networking is bad.
     
  11. displaced macrumors 65816

    displaced

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    #11
    I'd have understood if you'd not mentioned bootcamp there. In bootcamp, your Mac is 100% a standard PC. I'm not sure what you can do on a 'regular' PC that you can't on the Mac under Bootcamp.

    I'm a network admin and .NET developer. Naturally, my work-supplied laptop is a Dell. However, it's not a flat-out rule that even then it's not possible to be productive with the Mac. Visual Studio 2005 runs excellently in Parallels. I have plenty of scope for making use of both environments simultaneously. I'll often draft program execution flows using OmniGraffle in OS X which I save as a PC-friendly format and drag into Visual Studio for inclusion in the documentation. I prefer Keynote to Powerpoint, so I do the same there (and often get complements on the quality of my presentations - "Wow - how did you get Powerpoint to do those effects!"). OS X can connect into my work's VPN, which allows my Parallels windows environment to log into our domain, meaning all my work-related documents are kept in my domain profile and synchronised between Parallels on my Mac and my work PC.

    Email's easily accessible via Outlook Web Access. Ask if your company's Exchange server has OWA enabled, then simply point Safari to the proper address. OWA's very full-featured and quick (sometimes I prefer it to my PC's Outlook installation, even on the PC!).

    Likewise, please don't suggest that because you've seen problems with OS X's networking that OS X's networking is inherently bad. My 3 Macs network flawlessly in OS X, Parallels environments and Bootcamp, using both Windows SMB networking and Apple AFP. Also, OS X perfectly happy browsing network shares in the office from home via VPN.

    [edit: just to comment on a few of your other points]


    Well, there's a couple of ways of looking at this. It's true that there are certain applications which have no OS X equivalent, or the equivalent is a bit odd. Outlook versus Office: Mac's Entourage is a good example. On that particular issue, I chose to work around as best I could (using Outlook Web Access) and ensure I had access to the 'real deal' should it be necessary (Parallels).

    But this situation needn't blind you to the range of applications on the Mac which have no real equivalent on the PC, either for quality or for ease of use. I'll never touch Powerpoint again after using Keynote and Windows cannot give me Keynote. I much prefer OmniGraffle to Visio and would take OmniOutliner over OneNote. OmniPlan is shaping up to be something great too. Heaven forbid, but I also prefer the Mac versions of Word and Excel to their Windows counterparts!

    The Mac and its software is now an integral part of how I work - small things like the ability to convert anything, anywhere to PDF which a click of a button is invaluable and has made my Adobe Acrobat-using colleagues at work green with envy. Bear in mind that the cost of 2 licences of Acrobat Professional would buy a MacBook outright! Then there's the big things - the way I can script almost any and all applications within minutes to perform frequent tasks. Build workflows with Automator that'll process data in multiple stages quicker than anything I could set up on the PC (Folder Actions are absolutely invaluable - I actually ended up spending a month developing a 'Folder Actions Service' for windows to emulate this functionality on one of our servers!).

    If you're willing to spend some time looking at what the Mac can do for you, you'll see the value in it. OS X's applications and features have (for me) built into something of a supporting framework for the few must-have apps I run in Windows via Bootcamp. The Windows apps I need essentially sit in their own sandbox, with OS X humming along for everything else.


    Basically, the 'groupware' features of Outlook are compatible with the groupware features of... well, Outlook. Even its HTML mail format is a little odd and only really displays perfectly in other copies of Outlook. I've never had any problems whatsoever with Apple Mail. The font may look slightly different, but I suppose it depends on you if you consider that a 'problem' or simply 'how it is', thanks to Microsoft's design of Outlook.

    That's a pesonal data-point. I can provide you with a data-point from my experience that says completely the opposite.

    .... and there's the problem. If eye-candy is what drew you to OS X, then is there perhaps a possibility that you're overlooking the actual abilities and features of OS X, prefering that it behave 'just like Windows'?
     
  12. pjo macrumors regular

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    Feb 20, 2006
    #12
    I'm curious about how Entourage (spelling?) stacks up against Outlook in your experience (not that I've used either that much)

    All too true. I love macs, but recently had to pursuade a friend of mine (architect) from buying a 17" powerbook. Reason: He needed autocad and all kinds of things used in their firm. Worrying about file compatibility all the time wouldn't be productive.

    Probably a better title for the thread would be "Love OS X but the apps aren't there" since some people will argue that getting an intel Mac and installing only XP on it is worth it (and that's highly subjective).
     
  13. beefy23 macrumors member

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    Feb 13, 2007
    #13
    Working in the real world


    At the end of the day, work is what puts food on the table. If OSX is not cutting it in that area for you, 'you've gotta do what you've gotta do'. There is a petition currently running <a href="http://www.architosh.com/news/2002-07/2002a1-0711-axad-ox1.phtml">Autocad Petition</a> to try and get a Mac version of Autocad out there; perhaps you could add your name to the growing list. It may just be a matter of time before they succumb to demand.



    In my own experience though, I find that the use of a Mac means I'm more able to concentrate on getting work done rather than working on (or ins some cases babysitting) the machine.
     
  14. beefy23 macrumors member

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    #15
    fixed link

    Thanks, noobs will always be noobs! :rolleyes:
     
  15. MacVault macrumors 65816

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    #16
    I dissagree, and I agree with the OP. Windows networking UI & fileshareing configuration is a breeze compared to OS X and is much more polished. Apple really needs to fix this in Leopard! It's WAY overdue!

    Oulook may be less "secure", but the current version of Mail is garbage! Apple tries to SIMPLIFY stuff so much that the app just has no functionality - at least compared to Outlook. Hey - looks like Mail is finally getting a "noetes" feature in Leopard! Yippieeeeeee! Wooohoooo! 1 feature down and a thousand to go!

    I've found XP to be quite stable. Granted I'm a very careful surfer, etc and try not to get spyware and crap. For me, Mac OS X has also been very stable - except when I use my external FireWire hard drive and for some reason OS locks up several times a day when I'm trying to read and write from/to the drive. Turn the drive off and the Mac becomes un-frozen and says the device was removed improperly. Yea, maybe I have a *****ty FW chip in my external drive enclosure, but I would expect OS X to be smart enough to deal with it. I dout I'd have the same issue in XP.
     
  16. adrianblaine macrumors 65816

    adrianblaine

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    #17
    I can understand this. I'm an architecture student so I also run into software problems. When my HP laptop died 2 years ago, I bought an iBook, which gave me real big problems because I needed to run AutoCad. But in those two years I designed and drew almost everything by hand, and I believe I became a better designer in those two years. Now that I have a MBP, I am now able to use AutoCad again, but OS X taught me to learn not to rely completely on the computer. Of course you will always have to do construction documents in AutoCad, but even now, I hate booting into Windows to run AutoCad, it makes me feel dead inside. If they made AutoCad for OS X, I'd be in heaven.

    P.S. Isn't Archicad a big deal in Europe? That's what I was always told. Is AutoCad taking over the market there? Oh, and do you think Revit will kind of absorb AutoCad, or do you think they'll stay separate products. (I haven't used Revit yet, but I've heard it is pretty amazing)
     
  17. Markleshark macrumors 603

    Markleshark

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    #18
    I use a PC at work, its just the best option for us at work. I'm not even going to think about upgrading to Vista though, because I had enough trouble getting our Dongles to work on SP2, never mind Vista.

    It's a shame I can't use Macs at work, but I do at home and therefore I get the best of both worlds.

    As for networking, file sharing is a pain with Windows, an absolute pain, and im an 'IT Person' you get up one morning and it decides it doesn't want to see your 'My Network Places' anymore... It's a shambles.
     
  18. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #19
    Perhaps, you should find a better way to present your opinion. You're being rather rude to someone who would apparently like the solutions to be on Mac OS X.
     
  19. failsafe1 macrumors 6502a

    failsafe1

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    #20
    Sorry you bought a Mac you sound like you sure need XP.
     
  20. aristobrat macrumors G4

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    #21
    You're joking, right?

    If you want to compare things, try keeping things equivalent.

    Outlook Express is Mail's equivalent. You know, the free little email programs that comes with the operating system?
     
  21. MacVault macrumors 65816

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    #22
    Ok, you've got a point there. But where is Outlook's equivelent on OS X? Entourage on OS X is way behind Outlook, as is Office, WMP, etc.
     
  22. forumBuddy macrumors member

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    #23
    You're not alone. I work on XP at work and I have Mac at home. For now my MacBook is my only computer at home and it's a pain as I really want a tower Mac for multimedia and Windows gaming.

    I sold off my PowerMac G5 planning to buy a MacPro, but as it is MacPro is not well suited for home use as it's rather a server machine. My girlfriend for example hates MacOS even though she really started using Windows and Mac around same time so you can't say she's biased. It's really up to your preference, MacOS is just another man idea of what computer OS should be.

    As for me, I'll stick a little longer with the Mac. If I won't see a good tower machine from Apple in the next 6 month I'm jumping ship.
     
  23. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #24
    To follow up on comments above: this is not only uncalled for, but continuing to post in this manner will have repercussions.

    The site is not intended to be a place where one must love and defend all things Apple and hate anything that's not OS X related.


    To the OP: I understand your issues. I deal with them myself and apparently need to go back to using XP due to the discontinued support for the Mac version of our VPN. I in fact need to get a Dell laptop... again.* You, however, might want to check out CrossOver Mac to see if you can do what you need to do within OS X without booting into XP. It looks promising, and others have endorsed it. AutoCAD, though... might be too much for it.

    * Edit: company policy now: there are exactly three laptops I can get, and just one with what I need. Unless I can justify the more expensive IBM. Stupid corporate policies...
     
  24. huck500 macrumors 6502

    huck500

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    #25
    Macvault, can you list the 999 features that are missing from Mail? Or maybe you were exaggerating a bit... list 99? :rolleyes:

    There's not a single feature that I want Mail to have that it doesn't. I can see on the dock when I have mail, I can read the mail, I can respond. No annoying backgrounds, art, etc. Attachments always work perfectly for me. Please, :apple: , don't add anything.
     

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