Mac biggots? Whats up with that?

Discussion in 'Switch Stories' started by markjs, May 4, 2003.

  1. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    #1
    I am a confirmed PC user, you might call me a PC biggot because I will defend my PC preference to the death. Primarily I like the PC because of it's gaming ability, combined with internet access, and the fact I could afford it and am able to build and upgrade it myself cheaply while still buying high quality parts. My PC is a modest:

    Athlon XP 1700+
    ECS K7S5A Mainboard
    512MB PC2100
    SB Live Value
    Onboard Lan
    ATI Radeon 8500LE 64MB
    Realtek PCI NIC
    Western Digital 40GB and 20GB 7200RPM ATA 100 hard disks
    Running Windows XP Professional Service pack 1

    What I am getting at by this post, is why are Mac people so biggoted against the PC. Another guy made a post somewhere else about how maybe one in fifteen PC users is anti Mac, but more like one in two Mac users is anti PC. What can a Mac user do that I can't? I do audio and video editing on my PC, I can't think of anything a Mac can do my computer can't (and I'll wager I'll do anything cheaper, and being poor that's a serious consideration to me), and what is the big draw to the Mac. I realize this isn't the best forum for a two sided debate, but I am thowing it out there anyway.

    Note: I really don't want to hear how Windows sucks, because the newest version is very easily useable and quite stable and I personally know at least one person who likes Windows XP as much as OSX and uses both regularly. Granted Win 98 was a steaming pile o' dog doo and so was ME, but since 2K Windows has been very viable. Another thing to consider is that Windows is written to work on hundreds....even thousands of hardware configurations, when Mac OS needs to work on maybe 10.....That itself aquits even Windows 95 rather nicely. Besides I can run Linux or other flavors of Unix on my PC should I choose. My inquiry is about the hardware....why do you love it so much it makes you hate PC's

    PS I know two people who have switched from Mac personally, so it goes both ways.
     
  2. macrumors 68000

    Veldek

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Location:
    Germany
    #2
    Hey,

    One can't argue about taste. I think the reasons you described for being a pc user are good ones. Usually mac users don't buy a mac because of the gaming but for the ease of use and stability.

    You might argue that your pc is indeed stable and you know how to use it. Well, if it's okay for you then all right. My experiences haven't been so good. It got on my nerves, how often error messages popped up when I was just using the pc for normal tasks and how often an installation couldn't be finished because of hardware incompatibilties.

    Still this hasn't become better, I think. At work, I get a special error message every day, which says something like "unexpected error". Well, as often as this one pops up, you can't call it unexpected any longer and that's what my collegues and me are joking about (grim humour). Also, my friends pc is shutting down suddenly since he installed something needed for his games. He couldn't find out yet, what he can do.

    All these things make me feel I made the right choice when switching three years ago.

    I have one question: What do you as a convinced pc user do on this site?
     
  3. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    #3
    I am a very new mac user, having just switched in February with the purchase of my iBook. I'm 17 and have been using computers since I was like 6. I remember DOS, Apple IIes, Windows 3.1/95/98/ME/NT, Mac 8. I also spent a year using linux (Mandrake, Redhat, Debian) before going to a mac. I hate PCs.

    You ask about hardware. That's not why I switched, though it was a nice bonus. I switched because of OS X.

    I always use to be a Windows guy, from a Windows family. My brother's a MCSE. The previous experience I had with Apple was horrible. We had Apple's in our school computer lab, and they were crap. Nothing worked. Now I know that they weren't multitasking. I hated them with a passion and said I'd never use one.

    Oh how things have changed. PCs have become the pieces of crap. Windows may be getting better with XP, but it's a different experience. Everything is just better with a Mac. Things just work, right away. I haven't used XP much, but I can tell you it doesn't work like this does.

    Windows' interface sucks. Really it does. I'm sure you think the interface in MacOS X is horrible. It's not, it's different. And, it's better. It's easier just use, just because of the interface.

    Windows' filesystem sucks. Unix machines have a much better filesystem -- none of the drive crap.

    Windows software sucks. There is much less software for OS X than there is for XP. No one can deny that. Fortunately, the software for OS X is usually of a very high quality. It's very well designed and stable.

    Windows' interoperability sucks. Windows runs on a huge variety of hardware, but that's noticible from the software. OS X just detects and sets up -- no wizards.

    Really I don't expect you to believe this or anything. Maybe you will if you try using one. Things are going to be different for you because you use computers primarily for gaming. Maybe someday you'll end up switching to Linux because you don't like Windows. If you do, I almost guarentee you'll switch to Mac, because Linux's a pain to set up.

    Oh, and getting away from Microsoft was good too. They are evil. Apple has potential to start a monopoly and become evil, but that's besides the point. Microsoft is doing things that are bad for the consumer. Wait and see.
     
  4. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    #4
    I cant speak for everyone

    Its about elegance and love. We dont just use our Macs they become friends and part of the family. We dont just look at them as computers but extensions of ourselves. No system is perfect but for us this is as close as we can get to perfection. So many of the things you said you can do on your Windows machine I dont doubt I just know we can do it easier and usually were able to do it well before you could. You mistake pride for bigotry. Yes I will admit that you can play more games than I can but thats what the PS2. gamecube and X box are for. About price, I agree the sticker shock is that the Mac is more expensive but when you look at what you get with it. especially in the video editing realm you start to realize that the windows side doesnt have anything anything to compare with it. Not without having to pay at least a few hundred dollars for. Sure you built your own machine but wheres the tech support or the warranty. Any of those parts go bad and you'll be replacing them yourself. Theres more cost built in to building than many people choose to admit. Fact is we all live in a world that runs on Windows machines. Office's are full of beige boxes that sometimes manage to get through a day of email and excel. What you may not think about is that while the penny pushers may move the money from place to place on a windows machine the marketing side usually gets the products sold on a Mac. Advertising firms and creative agencies that market the worlds products do it on a much more stable environment. So dont think of it as bigotry but instead a sense of pride that... well I saw a T-shirt on a guy in the Apple store on Friday night that said it best. "Its a Mac thing, you wouldnt understand"
     
  5. thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    #5
    I was drawn to this forum because I am interested in computers generally and macs almost qualify.....but seriously I poked around on a mac for about an hour today, and found that some things are less intuitive (minimizing and closing windows). Also I found that some things easily accessible in windows are not accessible at all in mac OSX. I felt like the computer was "dumbed down" for me. All in all it was a computer and pefectly capable internet machine, but at least in an hour nothing even came close to winning me ove. Oh yeah it also crashed once too.
     
  6. Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #6
    Care to be more specific? It's easier to address your "problems" if you can tell us what kind of hardware you were on, what version of the OS it was running, and what types of things you were trying to do that were "more accessible" in Windows?

    Regarding intuitiveness, it's tough to objectively say that one is more intuitive than the other unless you've never used a computer before. You have a prejudice for where things should be from using Windows, as we do from using Macs. You expect things to work the way they do in Windows, and if it doesn't, it's "not intuitive" to you, not necessarily to other people.
     
  7. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Location:
    San Jose
    #7
    There is a great sense of community with us Mac users, something that I love. I LOVE my mac, I use windoze all the time...it just dosen't work for me...I am a curse to PC's...I cause Blue Screen's of Death whereever I roam. When I do my Programing for Comp Sci @ my HS, I have to do a restart at least 4 times a week OY! But do understand that it is running Win95...So I can't blame the comp too much...I take all sorts of crap everyday from my PC using friends, who all bash apple. Reason? none...Yeah...
     
  8. macrumors 6502a

    springscansing

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2002
    Location:
    New York
    #8
    It's very simple why we're mac biggots...

    edit: not funny

    And just for the record, you can run many flavors of linux on a mac as well.

    I know that the PC can't run the audio apps I use, so I use a mac. Plain and simple.

    Get a life man.. this is macrumors. What do you want us to do?
     
  9. mim
    macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    flesh, melbourne.... heart, london
    #9
    I think you'll find that using Windows has become a habit - that's why you find it more intuitive. I know from experience that new computer users vastly prefer the mac environment. I used to tutor a couple of classes for CAD where many people hadn't used a computer before. We had both mac and windows machines. Some people prefered the windows machines - because that is what they were used to. I can't remember I new computer user who gravitated towards a pc, rather than a mac. Not only is the interface quite clear, but you're right - it seems dumbed down. Exactly what they wanted.

    Now OSX is hardly a dumbed down system. It seems simple if you leave it alone. But you can call up a full unix shell very easily, and control many many things through the comand line interface. You also have Applescript - which is similar to Rexx in old unix environments - it allows you to script functions in the system and most programs very very easily. Very powerful. Nothing like it right out of the box in windows. And for true powerusers the c-prompt in windows is so un-itergrated with the main system that it's a real pain to use.

    I can think of various things in Windows that are easily available - but shouldn't be. Like virtual memory setting, video settings, virtual devices, etc. I - now using computers for 20 years - have made the mistake of deleting the scsi device drivers in Windows. I mean, all my drive were IDE! Right? Wrong. The Scsi drivers were required to run the ATAPI layers which allow various software to read from the CD-drive! This kind of cr$p doesn't happen in osX. Everything that needs to be hidden away is. You can get to it, but you should never ever need to.

    OSX is more stable. Not by much anymore, but enough that any serious sys admin would run a server using it rather than windows. That says a lot. OSX is more sophisticated in a number of important ways - you should read about Quartz Extreme (the graphics system). It uses some impressive technology (basically old - yes - similar to unix systems, but far more advanced than anything Windows has to offer).

    It has saved my job on more than one occasion - things >work< in osX, even when they're on the edge of the capability of the machine...I've had jobs where the same process just crashed faster windows machines (this was mostly when dealing with large graphic files...).

    Despite all this - the reason I love macs is the design. Where can you find cases like them in the pc world?! Not just good looks either - you should play with a power mac case...you can open the entire case to expose the motherboard fully without turning the damn thing off! I would have killed to find a PC case like that when I was repairing computers.

    And don't forget the iApps either. Beautiful designed hardware, beautiful designed software. There is no equal to iTunes or iPhoto on windows. There is not. I have paid money for and been through literally hundereds of programs. Nothing can compare.

    dickrichie is right - we are proud to use beautiful, efficient tools. That's what the mac is.
     
  10. macrumors 6502a

    springscansing

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2002
    Location:
    New York
    #10
    Closing is very intuitive. You click the red close button. What's so hard about that? Same for minimize.. click the minimize button. If you honestly are having trouble with that, you're an idiot.

    Dumbed down? You have command-line access via the Terminal. It's ****ing UNIX man. That's a lot more access than Windows gives you.

    As for it crashing, you didn't say at all what version of X you were running or anything.

    Macs "almost" qualify as computers? Yeah, okay.
     
  11. Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #11
    Chill out, springscansing. Either this guy is a troll, and not worth it, or he's actually looking for discussion and not a flamefest.

    Give him a chance.
     
  12. macrumors 6502a

    springscansing

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2002
    Location:
    New York
    #12
    Must bash troll, must bash troll!

    Honestly, just looking for something to do while I debug this stupid ass program. Takes about 5 minutes between results, so I get boredish.
     
  13. macrumors 604

    scem0

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    back in NYC!
    #13
    PCs are great. Macs, IMO, are better, but that is just opinion.
    I am definitely not a mac bigot. I am a person who has used
    both platforms extensively, have weighed their pro's and con's,
    and like a mac more. I am currently running on a PC because
    I couldn't afford a mac, which btw is the biggest downside to
    macs - affordability. Does SJ really think that a 16 year old who
    has to pay for his own computer will be able to afford a mac?
    Yes, PCs are cheap (my computer is a testament to that), but
    they are anything but perfect. The same goes for mac (well,
    the anything but perfect part ;)).

    Arguing which is better is stupid, pointless, and impossible. For
    reasons like:
    * There is no right or wrong opinion
    * It depends what you grew up using
    * Both have advantages to different people with different occupations
    * Both have pro's and con's.

    And mac users who say ignorant things because of their zealotry
    annoy me just as much, if not more, than they do you, and vice
    versa. As long as you acknowledge that both options have their
    advantages, and both are better for different people, then I have
    no problem. :)
     
  14. macrumors 68000

    lmalave

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Location:
    Chinatown NYC
    #14
    They're just different, but I don't see how you can say Windows is more intuitive than OS X. Minimizing and closing apps? OS X Windows have the same 3 freakin' buttons (minimize, maximize, close), but they're on the top left corner instead of the top right corner. Also, keyboard shortcuts are in general more intuitive and uniform on the Mac. For example, command-Q will quit your program. Closing a window doesn't actually quit the program, maybe that's what you're referring to?

    And as far as OS X being dumbed down. Hello? It's a Unix machine! I consider myself an alpha geek or close to it, and I have 10x more power on my Mac than on any Windows machine. It's Windows that's dumbed down. Everything's a black box. I can't even kill a program if it's hanging. I keep going to Task Manager and clicking "End Task" over and over and over and over and it just won't quit. What's up with that? On my iBook everything just works like it's supposed to to a much greater degree than on my PCs.

    As Rower asked, what exactly were you trying to find on the Mac that made you think it was "dumbed down"? It might be in a different place. You're just very used to the Windows interface. That doesn't mean the Mac is "dumbed down".
     
  15. macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Location:
    serendipity
    #15
    i agree that macs could be cheaper... but your reasoning isn't exactly perfect... i mean, does mr. bmw think that a 17 year old who just got his license and has to buy his own car can afford a bmw?

    you get the point.

    i know it's not the same, but yeah. word.
     
  16. macrumors 604

    scem0

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    back in NYC!
    #16
    well, I think computers should be affordable to the average (or
    not so average - ie me) consumer. I don't know. I guess I just
    mean 'the cheaper, the better', which is painfully obvious, but
    I think it is the foremost problem with apple computer, and should
    be tackled even before the speed gap.
     
  17. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    #17
    don't take this the wrong way, but these "biggots" you speak of are a lot like the born-again christians that corner you at the coffee machine trying to get you to go to church with them. (in fact, i even remember a mac fac site called "evangelista"!) macs offer simplicity, stability, and peace of mind--we do not have to travel through the blue screen of death, because the mac is with us! most of us, at one time, were just like you, using those evil windoze machines. but now "we have seen the light!" and can't possibly imagine how you could continue in your suffering. you don't know the peace you could have if you just gave the mac a chance. do you see the metaphor here?
    and one thing many windoze people say is, "if macs are so much better, why only 5% market share?" well, christianity started with less market share than that, and it is certainly better than baal or ishtar, just to name a few!

    and just for the record, i am a mac biggot. would you like to come over sunday? i can show you how to use iMovie!!!!:D

    PS-like i said, i mean no offense by this. in fact, i tried to tie some humor into this, so take it all with a grain of salt.
     
  18. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    #18
    Re: Mac biggots? Whats up with that?

    this has gotten me worked up.... sorry if i'm rambling....

    first, i don't think they've ported applescript to win32 yet. and don't give me any stupid batch command or windows script host nonsense. i've used them and it's not even close to the same.

    second, please name a few things you can do on a pc that i can't on my mac. and once again, don't come up with some obscure program that your dad uses at the office. the exact same app (meaning the name) may not exist, but i promise you there is an app that does the same thing and probably better. e.g., final cut pro, which is a whole other ball of wax that i won't get into. (there certainly is *no* reason it's the most popular program of its type.)

    third, what is it exactly you do with your pc? gaming and internet access? get a playstation and webtv, for crying out loud! it would be cheaper than your pc, mainly because you don't have to pay the microsoft tax/license. do some development--programming, graphic design, making porn, whatever--and you will find the mac is better at it.

    fourth, you mention something about the hardware, and asked what it is about the hardware. well, for one it's just plain sexy. but it's obviously not about the hardware. the hardware is the just-won't-ever-die icing on the cake. (bought this baby in august '98. do the math and i bet my computer is cheaper than yours on a month by month basis.)

    i use both pc and mac. the pc because i have to. woops, the pc can do something my mac can't??? yeah, serve extremely proprietary active server pages. (too bad my clients don't know about php yet....) but i promise you this, the only time my pc monitor is not asleep is when it is rebooting because of the 5th security update for windows media player this week.

    i'm done, i think. have a great day!
     
  19. macrumors 6502a

    LimeLite

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca
    #19
    1/15 PC Users X 95% Market Share = 6.3% of total market.

    1/2 Mac Users X 5% Market Share = 2.5% of total market.

    If your assumption of this is right, then...

    Conclusion: There are more bigotted PC Users than there are bigotted Mac Users. :D
     
  20. macrumors 6502a

    wsteineker

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2001
    Location:
    Montgomery, AL
    #20
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! Hell yeah! Use math to combat the troll! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! :D:D:D
     
  21. macrumors 65816

    voicegy

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2002
    Location:
    Sandy Eggo - MacRumors Member since 1-1-2002
    #21
    Bigot, Schmigot.....

    Another circular discussion on Mac vs. PC that will never win over anyone and most certainly will never come to any rational conclusions...might as well talk about Apples and, well, Oranges.

    It really is what someone here said earlier...either you get it or you don't. That has nothing to do with "bigotry" or Christian-like zealot behaviour, although I admit it does exist. (What Dell, IBM, Gateway and all the rest of them wouldn't GIVE to have such brand loyalty, by the way!) Nor does it have to do with PC's "sucking" and Macs "being better" and all the rest.

    The Apple brand of products simply "speak" to a part of us who are Mac users. Nothing less, nothing more. We're appreciators of fine design, ergonomics, cutting edge thinking, and the romance of the history of Apple. If there is a part of you that goes to a museum and sees a piece of art that "touches" you in some way, that's the part that is touched by this company. It really is almost unexplainable...and by the statement "you either get it or you don't", it really is meant in the most kindest manner...don't read it as "You're a PeeCee idiot and you just don't understand..." (although out of sheer frustration for always having to feel we have to, or even NEED to, defend ourselves, I can understand such vitrol statements coming from some of our brothers and sisters) the Apple "experience" really does just "fit" in with a part of our being.

    And that experience is something you "get" or you "don't". No more, no less... you're not "better" than us, and neither are we "better" than you. And that, my dear PC friend, is the hardest thing to explain of all.:)

    Peace, out.
     
  22. macrumors 65816

    Sedulous

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2002
    #22
    he he, yeah.

    I wonder if the difference is entirely due to the end user "group". Generally speaking, Mac users are more educated/free thinking types.
     
  23. macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #23
    Hey, who cares? Enjoy your pc, if it works for you thats great. I'll be interested to see how you feel about the "almost computer" after the 970 release... or the dual 970's...
     
  24. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    #24
    I'm just tired of family members asking me to help fix their Windows machines all the time. Blue screens, fatal errors, etc. etc. I mean, I've been using Windows machines since around 1993. Imagine my inlaws and parents, who arent so adept at using computers (you mean theres other browsers than INTERNET EXPLORER?!!?), and trying to get past blue screens, mouse conflicts, fatal errors, etc.

    So now we're "switching" tommorow... a shiney new iBook will be mine tommorow night. I just hope to show those around me "the light"! hahaha... so then I'll have less "can you fix my computer?!" phone calls. hehe
     
  25. macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #25
    well until i have friendly user interface, imovie to edit my movies, final cut pro to my more experinced work, idvd for my easy to do dvds, and dvd studio pro, itunes for my music, stability which i dont get in windows xp, a laptop that looks as good as it functions i may be all windows. the ONE thing i hate about windows is when it screws up i gotta format and start over, with my mac i can put in the cd, hold down the c key, and reinstall the system while all my stuff is un touched. me switching to completly to mac has a much shorter list than my list to switch completly to pc. if my mac gets the games i play i will no longer have a pc.

    iJon
     

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