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gopher

macrumors 65816
Mar 31, 2002
1,475
0
Maryland, USA
Re: Mac OS X 10.3.2... Soon?

Originally posted by Macrumors
Apple has kept busy with ongoing Mac OS X 10.3 updates.

A recent flurry of 10.3.2 releases have been released to Apple Developers (10.3.2 7D12 and 7D15).

While its unclear when the new update is going to be released, Apple requested quick feedback on the latest build. According to one anonymous report, the updated OS X should offer:

-Improved file sharing and directory services for mixed Mac and PC networks
-More robust printing to PostScript printers
-Improved font management
-Updated Mail and Address Book applications
-New ATI and NVIDIA graphics drivers
-FileVault, Firewire 800, WebDAV and USB Printing improvements from Update 10.3.1
-Previous standalone security updates

Based on this feature set, while good, it doesn't look like those with Firewire 400 problems are going to have their problem fixed.
 

McToast

macrumors member
Oct 30, 2003
58
0
...and when are they going to acknowledge and fix the problem with QPS FireWire CDRW drives with the SW-208B mechanism? System Profiler says "Disc Burning: Apple Supported" and iTunes recognizes the drive, but neither iTunes nor burning from the finder works! Only Toast works! :mad:

Everyone who has this drive has this problem, and it's always worked until Panther!
 

fBaran

macrumors regular
Oct 22, 2003
218
0
Does any body know if they're gonna supprt HP OfficeJet v40? The open source drivers don't work :(
 

kherdin

macrumors member
Sep 25, 2003
31
0
Hopefully, all of you who are talking about bugs you've experienced have reported them to Apple. How else are you expecting them to fix these?
 

1macker1

macrumors 65816
Oct 9, 2003
1,375
0
A Higher Level
By getting the guys whom they PAY to test the software to report the bugs.
Originally posted by kherdin
Hopefully, all of you who are talking about bugs you've experienced have reported them to Apple. How else are you expecting them to fix these?
 

Powerbook G5

macrumors 68040
Jun 23, 2003
3,974
1
St Augustine, FL
But those people whom they pay to find these issues can't possibly test on as wide of range of hardware/software combinations as the millions of OS X users out there have, so until the users who have a certain combination of software and hardware send in bug reports to show Apple that there is an issue that may otherwise not be found or tested by the Beta team, there won't be a way that Apple hears of these issues.
 

1macker1

macrumors 65816
Oct 9, 2003
1,375
0
A Higher Level
I work in the Engineering field, as yeah, there are real world applications that we can't test in our controlled enviroment. But looking at some of the complaints, it see a more that a few that should have been caught.
 

ryan

macrumors 6502
May 17, 2002
283
0
Denver, CO
Re: Re: mail...and address book

Originally posted by coolfactor
Apple has different teams of people working on different aspects of the OS and applications. That's why Mail and iPhoto have some very odd approaches to interface design. ...
While Apple does have different teams of developers working on different apps they all follow this .
 

splashman

macrumors 6502
Jun 23, 2003
350
0
Re: Help my fellow Mac user?

Originally posted by Photorun
First off, everyone who writes in a reply that goes something like "Well I've never had a problem with Safari so you must be stupid" take a minute before you hit that reply button and think "can I help my fellow Mac user with a valid suggestion?" and if the answer is no, don't hit reply. Maybe not everyone is as incredibly lucky with the pinnicle of stability your machine your so proud of. Instead of calling other people to blame (which they're not) write Apple an email about how well your system runs under 10.3 and see if they'll feature you in an ad.

How about canning the sarcasm? While you're at it, why don't you suggest to everyone that they not assume that every problem they're having is Apple's fault? Count up the number of posts in this thread that sound something like this: "[X] application crashes a lot. Why doesn't Apple fix it?" Well, of course, it MUST be Apple's problem. It COULDN'T be due to anything the user did.

I'm not suggesting the users are definitely at fault. I'd just like to see a few more questions asked, and a few less assumptions made.
 

mcsjgs

macrumors newbie
Nov 5, 2003
22
0
Collie-fornya
I think that there is a lot of merit in having users as beta testers. Not developers, not engineers, just plain users. If you build in a bug reporter to the beta, you will find a lot of very useful information on a wider variety of platforms and more real world issues coming back to the development team. I cannot help but think that the Firewire and File Vault problems would have been caught this way.
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,397
12,521
Re: Safari

Originally posted by iPC
Needs an update fast! Not only do I still have the random crashing problem https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47109, but I still can't use it to fill out forms at http://www.chase.com (one of my banks). I have to use IE to fill out any of the forms there... (specific proble is spacing - SSN blocks are 3-2-4 characters, but Safari only inputs 2-1-3 characters!)

Strange, Safari works better for me on chase.com than IE ever did.
 

mcsjgs

macrumors newbie
Nov 5, 2003
22
0
Collie-fornya
Based on the release date (11/22) of the 15 build and Apple's comments about a one week turnaround, it looks like the first week of December for 10.3.2 if there are no problems. Just a guesstimate.
 

WM.

macrumors 6502
Apr 18, 2003
421
0
Originally posted by mcsjgs
I think that there is a lot of merit in having users as beta testers. Not developers, not engineers, just plain users. If you build in a bug reporter to the beta [...]
It's called the AppleSeed program, and last time I checked they weren't looking for new participants.

But it does exist.

FWIW
WM
 

mcsjgs

macrumors newbie
Nov 5, 2003
22
0
Collie-fornya
I hate to bring up the evil empire, but MSFT does a lot of beta testing with just users, although you would not know it from some of the glitches in security. But it does pay off in the plug and play part of their OS.
 

WM.

macrumors 6502
Apr 18, 2003
421
0
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
I voted negative because you should NOT need this many fixes so soon after a release. Even Microsoft didn’t have this many released after XP came out (They more then made up for that in the trickle effect since then what? 30+ updates? but in 90% of those updates they are security related not functionality related.)
Said it before. Will say it again. Panther smells of being rushed to market for the X-Mas season. And they are doing post release cleanup at this point. I’ll give Apple credit for jumping on top of these problems immediately but they shouldn’t have been there to begin with. No one should expect a perfect release but some of the glitches have been complete show stoppers. FW hard drives and Filevault to name a couple.
I would go so far as to say that Jaguar 10.2 had more glaring bugs than Panther 10.3 does.

You say Apple should not need this many fixes so soon. It looks like 10.3.1 was not a planned release, so 10.3.2 will really be the first Panther update. It will be coming about six weeks after Panther's release into the wild. Well, guess what? 10.2.1 was released about six weeks after Jaguar came out, and (AFAICT and IIRC) it actually had more bugfixes than 10.3.2 will. Does that mean that Jaguar was a horrible release? No!! But it did take a while for many of the bugs to be squashed. Just like it will with Panther, just like it did with XP, and just like it will with Longhorn.

I think it's very unfair to a) expect perfect releases from OS developers, and then when they don't deliver on that, b) vote negative on MR stories about the updates that fix the highest-priority bugs.

Which reminds me: lest there be any doubt, 10.3.2 WILL NOT fix every Panther bug, and will almost certainly introduce some of its own. Just like with every other software update ever.

Finally, to all the other whiners ;) in this thread, if there's a bug that really annoys you, first read (Safari developer) Dave Hyatt's most recent blog entries, and then submit a report to Apple, via the built-in mechanisms, http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback, or (for ADC members, which I am not) bugreporter.apple.com or something like that.

WM
 

mcsjgs

macrumors newbie
Nov 5, 2003
22
0
Collie-fornya
You raise an excellent point in bug reporting. I've sent some in, and I bet Apple is deluged with them, but that is the way to go. And ADC offers a free signup with limited access, but one point of access is the bug reporter at:

ADC Bug Report Link
 

dloomer

macrumors regular
Nov 3, 2003
115
0
Originally posted by coolfactor
Safari very rarely crashes for me. ... I can't see that an update would fix your problem.. has to be something else you've installed.

Safari almost never crashes for me, either. However, lately whenever I see a mention of Panther updates on some message board or other, there's always at least one person who chimes in about the crashing. So, I think there's an issue somewhere. Maybe to do with how Panther was installed?

FWIW, mine was a clean install ... fresh brand new hard drive and everything ... no trace of Jaguar anywhere.
 

uberman42

macrumors member
Sep 1, 2002
84
0
Orange County, CA
disappointed...

is it just me- or is 10.3 disappointing in the standpoint of bugs. I have been using OS X since the slow as molasses 10.0, but that was pretty rock solid compared to this. I had done two erase and installs and both times (.3 and .3.1) I have had glitches. I decided to go back to 10.2.8 I'll wait till 10.3.7 is out before I install this again on my PBook 12" rev A. And thanks for the bug report link mcsjgs:eek: :( :eek: :(
 

Powerbook G5

macrumors 68040
Jun 23, 2003
3,974
1
St Augustine, FL
As I mentioned previously, there have been postings by Apple on their discussion boards mentioning that Safari and Mail have known stability issues due to outside fonts that are corrupt not being handled gracefully by the programs, resulting in a crash, so if anyone who is experiencing these frequent crashes with Safari has added fonts, I'd suggest disabling them to see if it helps.
 

alamar

macrumors member
Sep 5, 2003
69
0
Re: Re: safari quits

Originally posted by Longey Nowze
you took the words right out of my mouth err... finger tips :p

anyway what I usually do when i have a problem with an app, is I do a search for that app in my HD, then I find the files, prefs and other stuff like caches, then i just dump them or actually what I do is is just move them to a folder i made YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL DOING THIS YOU DON'T WANT TO DELETE SOMETHING IMPORTANT REMEMBER WHAT YOU DELETED AND WHETE IT WAS CUZ YOU MAY WANT TO RETURN IT! snipTHANK YOU
MaT

If you do something like this be sure you know how to launch into single user mode, mount your HD as readable, and move files back to where they go, incase you break the OS...witch I have done on occasion, you know for kicks.....

Get comfortable with unix at osxfaq.com before you start moving files that you don't know what they are. The message boards there have loads of info on how to fix OSX, and after almost 2 of trouble free computing I had to track it down because of a weird problem I was having. its a good site and worth looking through. I like OSX, its typically stable, and easy to repair. Sadly, its a bit more technical than OS9, and when problems do occur (much less often) it can take a bit of command line savvy to fix them. Its a good idea to know about permissions, file moving, and how to show (and hide again) invisibles. Just be very careful. ;)
 

WM.

macrumors 6502
Apr 18, 2003
421
0
Originally posted by mcsjgs
I hate to bring up the evil empire, but MSFT does a lot of beta testing with just users, although you would not know it from some of the glitches in security. But it does pay off in the plug and play part of their OS.
Well, yes. But it depends on how you define "a lot". Is it based on marketshare? R&D budget? Number of other beta testers? Price per release*? (All of which Apple has much, much less of than Microsoft does.)

Not to mention that Apple puts out major, feature-adding OS releases about five times more often than Microsoft. I believe Longhorn's beta testing program will be well over a year. Do you really think Apple could do the same thing with each 10.x release? Probably not.

What's more, considering the vastly fewer hardware configurations OS X has to deal with as compared to XPee, you could argue that Apple can justify even fewer non-developer/-engineer beta testers than would be accounted for by the four factors listed above (budget, marketshare, other testers, price--which I suppose are all interrelated anyway).

I guess what it boils down to is this: I'm pretty happy with the way OS X's development is going. I don't think I could suffer through four or five years of the same basic OS release, and I'm very willing to pay for the privilege of major annual releases--both financially and in terms of the bugs I'll have to put up with until 10.x.x fixes them. (And I'm experiencing very, very few of them in Panther; printing in Times seems pretty weird, but hopefully 10.3.2 will fix that :) ).

BTW, thanks for the corrected ADC bug reporting link.

WM

*What I mean here is, Microsoft charges like $200 for each major upgrade (e.g. XP Pro)--about 50% more than Apple does for an annual 10.x release. So there are more testing resources for each copy, and MS sells way more copies. This is probably a redundant point (not too different from R&D budget), but whatever. :)

Finally, I'm pretty sure Apple sold about a million copies of Jaguar, presumably most of them at about $129. (Actually, that could be an interesting question--how do they figure in the family packs [five licenses for $199] and the educational sales [$69 to individuals, and less to institutions; zero for Jaguar for Teachers participants]? Plus, considering that Amazon sells Panther for about $100, the wholesale cost must be way less. But I digress.) Now, AFAIK software has a very low marginal cost, so you're basically paying for R&D with your $129. Well, guess what? Apple's R&D budget was about $500 million last year, and about 25% of that was for OS development (IIRC--if you're less lazy than me you can check this out :) ). That works out to about $120-130 million in OS R&D!!! With somewhere around (perhaps) $100-130 million in revenue! This is not where their profits are coming from!!

And if they spent more money on beta testing (although AppleSeed-type programs probably don't cost too much), they'd make even less, if anything.
 

biaachmonkie

macrumors newbie
Nov 17, 2003
10
0
Originally posted by gopher
Firewire 800 improvements are all nice and good, but until they fix Firewire 400 as well, there are going to be people I just am not going to recommend to upgrade to Panther.

What problems do you have with FW400? I'm using a TiBook with 2 FW400 drives (Hard drives, and attach a DVD-R as well) with no problems. What is the issue?
 

cristiana

macrumors newbie
Jul 2, 2003
9
0
expose bug

I hope they fix this expose bug. I run dual monitors. If I have a window which has more than 50% of it below the screen, and then, hit the all windows hey. The windows fly into the corner, and are only a few pixels tall. The top of the image is the before, and the bottom is the after i hit the all windows key.
 

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