Mac OS X on a PowerBook 3400... sorta.

Discussion in 'Apple Collectors' started by RacerX, Nov 8, 2005.

  1. RacerX macrumors 65832

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    #1
    I recently was given a PowerBook 3400c/200 (with 80 MB of RAM and a 12 GB hard drive) and decided to install Mac OS X Server 1.2 (Rhapsody 5.6) on it. I had been needing a more up to date mobile Rhapsody system as a lot of the software I like I can't run on my ThinkPad (it either won't run on Intel processors or won't run on pre-5.3 versions of Rhapsody, my ThinkPad is running Rhapsody 5.1).

    Well, so far so good. Mac OS X Server 1.2 installed without any issues and all my software has install just fine. Including WebObjects 4.0 developer, which was part of the reason for wanting the system.

    The only thing that doesn't work is Blue Box (early version of Classic), which I guess wasn't designed to run on anything other than a PowerPC 604 or later. This isn't that much of a problem as I rarely use it and most everything I would need from a Mac OS 8.6 environment I can get from my PowerBook Duo 2300c/100.

    The only drawback that I can see so far is that the screen is 800x600... which is a little small for a Rhapsody based system. Rhapsody, like Mac OS X, is designed for 1024x768 and larger resolution displays. Everything is a little bigger than the old Mac OS even though Rhapsody is still using the Platinum theme.

    Well, this PowerBook should make a nice addition to my collection. And it is the fourth Rhapsody system added to my current network of systems (in the past I rarely had more than two up and running at any one time).
     
  2. Sly macrumors 6502

    Sly

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    #2
    I'm glad you bought up putting Rhapsody (OS X Server) on an older Mac. I have just purchased a (unused) copy of OS X Server 1.1 and want to instal it on my Powerbook 3400c 240mhz 144mb ram with a 6gb Hd. The Powerbook is currently running OS 9.1. I really want to keep a bootable version of OS 9 on it so I suspect a disk partition is in order (I also have OS 9 disks). Is there anything I need to know, is installation easy, from the literature it looks like 603 Powerbooks are not supported? In the box are also disks for Net Boot Server 1.0, Web Objects 4.0.1, & OS X Server Third Party Solutions 1.0. Sorry to sound dense, but what do these other disks do, and should I install them as well. Lastly, what can I run under OS X Server, I assume standard OS X programs are out of the question?
     
  3. RacerX thread starter macrumors 65832

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    First thing to remember is that the disk is actually Mac OS X Server 1.0 and not 1.1... the people who produced the CD's for Apple made a mistake in the silkscreening and mislabeled them.

    The reason this is important is that when people think they have 1.1 they don't realize that they would need to install the 1.0.2 update (which you can find here).

    Partitioning will be needed, and you'll want to make sure that the Rhapsody partition is the first partition and is at least 1.5 GB in size (if you plan on using Rhapsody a lot, otherwise 1 GB would be the minimum). My Rhapsody partition is about 10 GB with the remainder being open HFS+ for file sharing via Appletalk.

    The installation is pretty straight forward. When the installer says that it can't install on this hardware, go to the Special menu to Configurations. Click the check box to allow installation on unsupported hardware and click okay. The default button should change from Quit to Continue. I have some images of this on this page.

    As for what is actually supported (or usable) for Mac OS X Server 1.x, under /usr/share/nvram/ the following PowerBooks are listed: 2400, 3400, Kanga, Wallstreet and Mainstreet.

    My guess is that NetBoot Server is something you'll not need (it is for booting other Macs off of disk images stored on a Mac OS X Server system, so it takes up a lot of space).

    The WebObjects 4.0.1 CD is important because it not only has the installation packages for WebObjects Developer and Deployment, it is also where Apple put the Mac OS X Server Developer packages (which would be needed if you get an app as source code rather than a precompiled binary).

    While there is an interesting selection of software on the Third Party CD... most of it is pretty old (even for Mac OS X Server) and newer versions of most can be found on the web. The two things I would install off that CD are OpenUp and ColdCompress. Those are archiving utilities, I keep a copy of OpenUp on all my Mac OS X, Rhapsody and OPENSTEP systems.

    Even though Mac OS X Developer Preview 1 was basically Mac OS X Server 1.0, a lot of things changed with the next three developer previews and public beta before 10.0 was finally released.

    Still many of the titles I use daily in Mac OS X are the same ones I use on my Rhapsody systems. Normally I would just point to my Rhapsody applications page, but as the application archive server at Peak was recently taken down I need to update some of those links.

    The apps I use the most are...
    Create and Stone Studio This is a set of apps that I use for a lot of graphic design type stuff. In fact all of the pages at RhapsodyOS.org were created on Rhapsody systems using primarily Create.
    OmniWeb 3.1 and other Omni Apps Even though it is pretty old now I still find OmniWeb 3.0/3.1 to be very useful... specially the built in HTML editing function. OmniPDF is okay, but I recommend PDFview 2.1 (I did a write up on PDF solutions for Rhapsody here). OmniLibrarian is okay also, but it isn't as good as NeXT's Digital Librarian. OmniDictionary is very helpful and I use it all the time. And I play Omni's Quake II on my 8600/300 quite a bit, it may play nicely on your 3400 too (it takes up about 400 MB of disk space on my system, so if you plan on trying it you'll need more space for your Rhapsody partition).
    Caffeine Software Apps I use PixelNhance a ton (works just like the Mac OS X version) and TIFFany 3 is also very helpful. PixelNhance is free and right now there is no way of getting a license for the Rhapsody version of TIFFany 3 (though you can still buy the Mac OS X version).
    RBrowser I'll have to figure out where to get RBrowser from as they took it off there site... but there is a free version for Mac OS X Server.​
    There are other apps that I use (ToyViewer, ToyAlbum, MacOSXAmp, Mesa, etc.) but knowing what you plan on doing with your system makes it easier to point out apps that would be useful.

    I hope that this is helpful... and best of luck with your system!
     
  4. Sly macrumors 6502

    Sly

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    #4
    Racer X, Thanks for the detailed rely. Thats interesting about the printing on the disks being wrong,how many disks got out before this was spotted? It seems an odd mistake to make, I wonder if Apple planned a 1.1 update but pulled it at the last minute?

    Thinking about it, what I'm going to do is find a new HD on ebay to instal OS X server on to. My current OS 9 install is running good and it seems a shame to wipe it, also I have an OS X Public Beta disk which I have been wanting to install for ages, to see how far we have come. I think I will try to install this as well on a second partition of the new disk using X-Post Facto.
     
  5. Anonymous Freak macrumors 601

    Anonymous Freak

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    #5
    Where did you find Server?

    Sorry to hijack the thread, but where did you find OS X Server 1.x? I've been scouring eBay for weeks, and haven't seen a copy yet. I'd love to have one for my collection. (I have all the public releases of X but that. Including the Public Beta on an original iMac. I just have to remember to unplug the network cable before booting, as the beta was time-limited, and checks an NTP server for the current date and refuses to run if it's past a certain date. So I have to go and boot off an OS 9 disc and reset the date back to 2000.
     
  6. RacerX thread starter macrumors 65832

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    #6
    Well, there was both a run of the boxed version (Z691-2251-A) and the bundled version (Z691-2308-A) released with this misprinting.

    As for Apple's plans, I'm sure that they had planned on a 1.1 release, but after the misprinting they were forced to release it as 1.2.

    The Rhapsody version numbers are the easiest way to tell what order the versions are supposed to be in. Both 1.0 and 1.1 disks install Rhapsody 5.3, update 1.0.1 produces Rhapsody 5.4, update 1.0.2 produces Rhapsody 5.5 and both 1.2 and 1.2v3 are Rhapsody 5.6.

    There is a 1.2 upgrade CD, but the biggest part of version 1.2 (being able to run it on a G4 processor) can't be utilized because you can't install earlier versions on a G4.

    I cover version numbers and Rhapsody media on this page and Rhapsody system requirements on this page.

    For a period of about 8 months last year there was at least one copy of 1.x on ebay a week (averaging about $45 for the final bids). I found on place that had a copy for sale a couple weeks ago... but it has been bought since then (they were asking $75 as I recall).

    Currently I haven't seen any on sale anywhere (someone asked me last week too).
     
  7. Sly macrumors 6502

    Sly

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    #7
    Ebay is your best bet, thats were mine came from, it cost me very little as I was the only bidder. However it took me a couple of months to find a UK copy but there does seem to have been a few in the US as Racer X said.

    Is that right, so I need to reset the clock on my Powerbook back to 2000 when I install OS X Public Beta?
     
  8. RacerX thread starter macrumors 65832

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    #8
    Thatis one of the reason I don't play with the Public Beta that much actually.... it is just easier to install Developer Preview 4 on a system because it does have the expiration date. Also DP4 had a number of features that were turned off in the Public Beta but ended up in 10.0.
     
  9. Anonymous Freak macrumors 601

    Anonymous Freak

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    #9
    Yeah, but DP4 is technically illegal to sell or give away. And since its license specifically stated a certain time frame, it's probably also illegal to run. Public Beta was sold to the public, and has no legally binding sunset, just a technical one.

    (That said, I would love to have a copy of DP4. :-D )
     
  10. RacerX thread starter macrumors 65832

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    #10
    Fortunately I've never sold or given away any of the media I've gotten from Apple. :D

    And the NDA becomes unenforceable after the final release as there are no longer any secrets. But I've never discussed anything that was under NDA while it was subject to an NDA.

    I know a lot of people at Apple and my site isn't a secret from any of them... I'm well within my rights to use any of the software I have or have written about.

    What time frame?

    I don't recall any of the developer media I have having a time frame. I sure don't recall anything in the EULA or NDA about a time frame of use.
     
  11. Sly macrumors 6502

    Sly

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    #11
    So, how does the DP4 differ from Public Beta? I would love to get my hands on a copy of the DP4, but as the chances of that are practicaly nil, Pulic Beta will have to do!
     
  12. Anonymous Freak macrumors 601

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    #12
    I don't remember for certain in DP4 (That's why I said 'probably') but in many betas, the EULA specifically states that the software is only licensed through a certain date. (Kind of like the new Intel transition kits. They become illegal to possess after Dec 31, 2006. Of course, they're hardware, so it's easier to keep track of.)
     
  13. RacerX thread starter macrumors 65832

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    #13
    You don't remember? Have you even seen DP4?

    Honestly, before you start throwing words around like illegal, you had better have all the facts in hand... because I'm personally offended at any insinuation that I have done anything illegal.

    Apple times out any software they want used on a limited basis (that includes the Public Beta and beta versions of WebObjects that I have) They tell you that the software will not function after a certain date... they do not say that you can't use it after that date.

    And on software were they don't do that, using Beta software runs it's own risks because it was prerelease. It is assumed that once a final version is available that people will move to that from the Beta... without needing legal pressure (which Apple hadn't used while I was still part of their developer program).

    Ummm... Apple owns that hardware. They were given out with the specific understanding that all units were to be returned to Apple to be destroyed.


    All that being said, I highly suggest that you back off your comments about things being illegal if you wish the conversation to remain friendly... specially as you don't seem to have any facts to base those slanderous comments on to begin with.
     
  14. TorbX macrumors regular

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    #14
    In what sense is OS X 10.x server usable on an old PowerBook? Do you surf the net, or...? Is it not painfully slow?
     
  15. Sly macrumors 6502

    Sly

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    #15
    Everything on a Powerbook 3400 seems slow:rolleyes: Which I find amazing as the Powerbook 3400 240mhz was the world fastest laptop back in 1997. Personaly I just want to install OS X sever on an old powerbook because: 1/ it can be done 2/ I want to have a play with it, not do anything particularly productive, I have a modern Mac for that.

    However, as I'm sure Racerx will tell you, it is possible to do most things you might do with OS X on Rhaphsody if you should so wish.
     
  16. Anonymous Freak macrumors 601

    Anonymous Freak

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    #16
    Yes, on a work machine, where it wasn't installed by me, five years ago.

    Calm down, calm down. I wasn't making any insinuations. I was cautioning. Heck, I said I wanted a copy. If my comment wasn't 'promoting the illegal', then yours certainly aren't. I was making generalizations based on similar beta programs. (I have 'developer beta'ed many different programs, including all versions of Windows since NT 3.1, and even OS/2, I've seen many different forms of developer beta licenses. Most say that not only does the program caese to work, but that your license also expires, on xxx date.)

    I'm also not trying to imply that anyone ever actually prosecutes anyone for running a developer beta past its shutdown date. As for the comparison to the Intel developer kits, that Apple owns them? Well, guess what, Apple also owns every single copy of OS X that was ever produced. It was only licensed to you. Apple can, at any time, revoke that license for any reason.

    Calm down, count to ten, and read my posts again.
     
  17. RacerX thread starter macrumors 65832

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    #17
    Well... I don't think OS X Server 10.x would be worth running on an old PowerBook... I'm running Mac OS X Server 1.2 which is a Rhapsody based operating system. Mac OS X Server 10.x is a Darwin based operating system which is just as resource intensive as any version of Mac OS X 10.x.

    Rhapsody is actually slightly faster than OPENSTEP on the same hardware, and I've been running Rhapsody 5.1 on an old ThinkPad (Pentium 133 MHz) for about 5 years now.

    As for what I can do... yes, I can surf the net to a degree (OmniWeb 3.1 has the same compatibility as Netscape Communicator 4.x) and I can do page layout and web design on it (including WebObjects development). It mainly comes down to what apps you have. And as I've been using Rhapsody for years, I have a lot of apps that make the system very useful.

    1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10...

    Nope, that didn't help. Still looks like you said something about it being illegal to use the software I use.

    So what do you think you were remembering? The EULA only appears during the installation process, and you were not the one who installed it. The rest of the documentation doesn't include the EULA from what I can see.

    Guess what... you aren't helping your case here.

    Apple made it perfectly clear that the hardware that they were giving out was to be returned at the end of the development period. Similarly, Apple made it perfectly clear that the Public Beta was going to stop functioning after May 15, 2001. There was no small print involved... those were very up front terms of use. And the hardware being owned by Apple and the fact that Apple plans on getting it all back is a unique situation (I think the only time I have heard of Apple doing anything similar was with the release of PowerPC systems).

    I'm not taking this as friendly conversation (your "guess what" comment specifically)... so you may want to change the tone of your posts. If you don't, then don't expect any further replies from me.
     
  18. macg4 macrumors 6502a

    macg4

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    #18
    Man this whole forum topic has stirred by interest in getting my self a copy as well. off to ebay i suppose. I am a current os 10.4 user and also a next computer collector/user. i actually have 4 nextstations running nextstep 3.3.
     
  19. 5300cs macrumors 68000

    5300cs

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    #19
    How are the old versions of OS X server? I've used 10.1, 10.2, 10.3 and am on 10.4 right now.

    I have an old beige G3 sitting around doing nothing, maybe an old copy of OS X server would put it to use? ;)
     
  20. RacerX thread starter macrumors 65832

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    #20
    Well, I actually don't have a ton of experience with it as a server OS. When it was current most of my clients were using AppleShare IP 6.x.x for their servers.

    I'm currently running a 7500 as a server using it, it is doing mainly file sharing and it is also set up as a web server for my network (so I can test pages on it). But nothing all that taxing.

    The main reason I can use it as a workstation operating system is that I have enough apps to make it useful. Without apps even the best OS is pretty much useless.
     
  21. Sly macrumors 6502

    Sly

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    #21
    Ok, so I have actually got around to installing OS X Server on my Powerbook 3400c, I swapped in a newly formatted HD especially for the install. I have to say that the installation was about as easy as it gets, after ticking the install on unsupported hardware box the rest was as easy as an install of OS X 10.4 It took about 30mins and three auto restarts and job done. The configuration and initial setup menus where somewhat more complicated, 19 pages worth in fact. After the initial setup screen the computer reboots and loads to a login screen. Problem was nowhere could I see any indication of what my user name should be? Unlike OS X it does not give you the option to change the user name during setup (at least if it does I missed it), I spent ages sticking in guesses like Admin & User etc. just to have them shaken away by the login box, anyway to cut to the chase the default user name is: Administrator. Rhapsody itself bears more resemblance visually to OS 8 than OS X, however there are little touches that give the game away, for instance the spinning beach ball in OS X started life as a spinning multi colored CD in Rhapsody. The finder view is a complicated version of the one we are used to in OS X, I still need to get used to it as it is not that straight forward and has for instance two applications folders? I have updated to 1.0.2 and installed a few applications, but, I don't think it is going to be usable to me for more than just experimental playing around. A couple of problems I have come across so far, which are probably due to my lack of knowledge: It will only recognize the first session burnt on a multi session CD, It will not mount CDRW's, my wireless card will not work so I can not get on the internet, I can not see any way to use a dialup modem. Because it is not designed to run on laptops the Powerbook runs hot so I would not like to use it for an extended length of time, and it will not charge the battery. Lastly I can not get the Mac OS Blue Box to run, when I try to start it up Rhapsody has a Kernel Panic and requires a restart, I have a feeling that there was no Mac OS installed as I can not find any evidence of it in the finder. Mac OS 8.5.1 is included on the install disk, so I assumed would be installed automatically to use in the Blue Box environment. Fun to experiment with and it does install with a good chess game (in fact basically the same as the one in current versions of OS X), but probably not worth changing from OS 8 or 9 on your classic Mac unless you have a good source for apps.
     
  22. RacerX thread starter macrumors 65832

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    #22
    You can also use root as the user name.

    There was a page in the Setup assistant called Create User Accounts... which doesn't look like much. You were supposed to click on the Add button to create a normal user account for the system.

    Still, even if you miss that step in the setup, you can use the information on this page of my site for creating new users.

    It should work with most CDs... I know that CDs burned using Mac OS X's Finder show up as two CDs on the desktop of my system.

    Wireless hardware came out after Mac OS X Server so it doesn't have drivers for that type of stuff, and it was never designed for dialup and doesn't recognize modems. That was definitely out side of where Apple had gotten to with the system up to that point.

    The reason that Blue Box won't start seems to be that Blue Box requires at least a PowerPC 604 processor.

    As for finding the Mac OS in Rhapsody, it is actually in a gzip file inside of the MacOS.app and is installed (when working) in the directory /Local/Library/MacOS/Users/UserName/StartupDisk.img

    Actually, the image that comes with the system is rather small, so I tend to replace it with a larger image (up to 2 GB). I outline how to do this on this page.

    Actually, when Blue Box does work, it works great. I actually tend to use Blue Box on my 8600/300 a lot because it is easier to get to to do work on than my 8100 (which is my main classic Mac OS system). I have my 8600 set up with two displays, and I set up Blue Box to run on the second display (I talk about display settings on this page).

    This is what the displays of my 8600 look like when I have Blue Box running...
    [​IMG]


    Yeah, I don't actually expect people to use Rhapsody systems the same way I do. I've been using NeXT and Rhapsody based systems for years (since the early 90's), so I'm used to all the system quirks and how the apps work (and have a ton of apps now for all my systems).
     

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