Mac + PC fan = offended by everything!

Discussion in 'Community' started by switchedoff, Jul 7, 2003.

  1. switchedoff macrumors newbie

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    Jul 7, 2003
    #1
    I just noticed something by browsing through the forums... By being a fan of both Mac AND PCs... it is easy to be offended, and hard to defend either one of them.

    I can't honestly say that Windows is great and amazing, but I can't say the same about Mac OS either... I think they are both good, and they both crash.

    I find it amazing that so many people are so attached to either one or the other, when they are both just tools. It's like saying a hammer is better than a screwdriver. Well, if you've got both nails and screws, maybe both a hammer and a screwdriver would be nice to have.

    I guess it is just that age old feeling of "what I have is better". It's like saying the best car is __________. and no other car is good.

    It is preference, pure and simple. I've got a PC running as a webserver that cost me about $300 and it was up and running the day the parts came in. I've got a mac that downloads and edits video quite nicely.

    I've actually had more problems hooking up my mac to a printer than my PC, but I won't rule out lack of knowledge, as I'm sure there is a way to do it.

    Anyway, being a digital video editor, web designer, and programmer, I must say the only reason I choose a PC over a Mac is because I grew up with a PC. I'm comfortable with a Mac, so I don't mind using one at all, which is why I signed up on the forums, but I'm more comfortable on a PC.

    I've seen people more comfortable on a mac do stuff faster than I can do on the PC, but I've also done other stuff on the PC that my friend on the mac couldn't.

    My advice: find what you like, share your knowledge and enjoyment, and stop bashing other people based on what type of machine they use.
     
  2. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #2
    I agree 100%. I normally write on this message board using a PC, and have never had a problem with them. Mac users will normally call Windows "Windoze" or something of that effect, and call it unstable, etc. I run XP perfectly well. Mozilla crashes on me once in a while.......that's all. Other programs run fine. I CAN multi-task. When a Mac vs. PC discussion happens, I normally just stay out of it. I can't be arsed.
     
  3. tazo macrumors 68040

    tazo

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    Pacific Northwest, Seattle, WA actually
    #3
    As someone who uses both a mac, 600mhzg3imac, and a pc, 667mmhzPIIIdell, I find myself in the middle of all these debates. Windows works ok for me, I prefer OS X because it doesn't crash when i really need it to work. I think the bottom line is if after you get your work done and out of the way, you feel 'at home' on your most frequented computer.
     
  4. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

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    #4
    Get off my forums you PC-loving freaks....:D :D

    It doesn't matter what you use, it's what you do with it that counts. As for the sniping, that's just a bit of fun for most of us, the Mac vs PC argument only really matters to folks with very little else to worry about;)
     
  5. King Cobra macrumors 603

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    Mar 2, 2002
    #5
    MacAddict runs Windows 3.1
    Bill Gates uses a G5 :D

    Well, I'd have to say that I've used Macs and PCs, each for over 8 years, but I've spent more time behind Macs. I can come up with arguments to defend/offend either side, not because I want to, but because I can...from experience.

    I don't mind bringing down either side in a particular subject if the argument I present (or is presented to me) is accurate. That's no pet peeve of mine. I take offense to Mac and PC bashers, who like to say "[] suck" and intentionally not back it up with an argument.

    I mind it more with Mac-bashers, because I am more knowledgable with Macs. Better arguments can be used for and against the Mac for that reason alone. But with the inclined knowledge of the Mac platform from a Mac user comes the coinciding awareness of that same Mac user. Thus, greater offense is taken.

    The same applies with PC users vs. PC-bashers.

    High levels of awareness of the Mac or PC platform lead to high levels of offense taken by that Mac or PC user from a person bashing the platform. High levels of awareness of both platforms lead to high levels of offense taken by that Mac and PC user from a person bashing either platform.

    It's that simple.
     
  6. BaghdadBob macrumors 6502a

    BaghdadBob

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    Gorgeous, WA
    #6
    The Windows hatred comes from two [edit: three or four or so] angles:

    1: Windows has generally been an inferior platform that has just happenned to gain mass acceptance, and was just pretty much accepted as the standard. I will admit that XP is a much more stable platform, and even though it sucked, having spent a couple of thousand hours on it, NT was pretty stable too. So Mac users are resentful that their platform of choice has been lorded over by Windows despite having often been the inferior product.

    2: MS stole most of their good ideas from Apple...and continues to do so...although it is starting to go both ways. And don't anyone tell me Apple stole their ideas from Xerox, we all know that was fair and square.

    3: There's quite simply a lot of vicious, vindictive, hateful, and untrue press out there about the Mac platform from a world that has been rooting for (and predicting) Apple's demise for fifteen years. So we tend to get a tad defensive, sometimes irrationally so.

    4: Microsoft is a bad, bad company...

    As for me, I recognize the fact that Windows is better for a select few things, and is quite clearly the less expensive route to go. If I had my way everyone could afford a Mac, but unfortunately it's not true. Note, though, that prices did not approach where they are now on the PC side (except maybe home-built) until the iMac came along.

    And although I would love to play all the Windows compatible games that come out, my personal choice is to do absolutely nothing that will support Microsoft or the Windows platform if I can help it in the tiniest way. It's kind of like boycotting. Won't even buy an XBox, and there's some good stuff on there.

    So...uh, there you go...I guess :)
     
  7. Das macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    #7
    I've used both and both are really not that perfect, so it's a toss up. I don't really think that either of them is above the other. Really, if you hate either platform so much, the chances are that you really aren't that computer literate and stick to your small pond.

    Interesting note though that I noticed last night, Microsoft is sponsoring the airing of South Park the movie on Comedy Central. A movie in which he gets his head chopped off.
     
  8. iGav macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #8
    heh-heh...

    Yep... they need to support Coventry City like me... :eek: :eek: that'll give them something else to worry about... like are they going be in Division 2 at the start of the 04/05 season?? :p :p :p

    Mac's still whip PC's though!! ;) :D :p
     
  9. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #9
    There is the whole "us vs. them" thing...

    I've noticed that a lot too. Especially lately. I think a lot of it comes from the PC users bashing Macs for, often, not so valid reason. Most Mac users have had experiance with Windows, but not so the other way around. There's a lot of FUD out there. So any time you defend Apple, you're branded a zealot. It's funny, because I always figured nobody actually liked Windows, they just sort-of tolerated it.

    I got that a lot at work. Co-workers not just defending WinTel, but bashing the Mac. Not that any of them knew what they were talking about, but of course Windows must be superior. :rolleyes: So it goes both ways. PC zealots, I guess. Just look at the Forbes Poll (in my sig). Some PC site tells people to vote against Steve Jobs, and they go there in droves even though they know nothing of Apple. At least we know all about Ballmer (likes he's a better CEO than Jobs).

    I use both, too. Have for a long time. But I tend to push my meager gear pretty hard. And Windows just seems to choke. It may not be as bad as it was, but I still find XP painful. I barely tolerate 2000. After some financial setbacks, I can't wait to get a new OS X machine. I love the OS, and am really looking forward to the new hardware. I had been somewhat unimpressed with the high-end options and pricing before, so you can't really call me a zealot (read some of my past posts). But I've always loved the overall Mac user experiance (and it is an experiance).

    I do audio/video/image/web-editing and find Macs to be much more productive. I rarely play games. If I do, that's what my PS2 is for. For some people, Windows would be a better option. But it is frustrating when people start talking badly about something you like, quoting dubious sources, and having no real knowledge of what they're talking about. If they had valid arguements, that would be different.

    But most of the time, it's trolling. And it's annoying when we want to have a nice discussion about something we like discussing. Feel free to give your $0.02, but if you have nothing better to do than sit around talking about how much you hate a product you've never used, especially when we love it, you need to go away. There's nothing wrong with not having a life, but don't take it out on us.

    Apple may be a greedy, faceless corporation. But they make damn good products.

    Do not be fooled, M$ is EVIL. A monopoly in the truest sense of the word. Do you really want to live in an M$ world? No competition? Palladium and DRM? Closed standards? Renting software? That's where it's headed. I'll take my Apple, thank you. And be happy for the day I can be rid of M$. Preaching to all who will listen (and many who won't) the beauty of a whole nother side of computing they may never have been exposed to. That's why I defend Apple.

    I just hope they don't repeat the same mistakes.
     
  10. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #10
    Oh yeah, and the whole "being different" thing.

    Some people like being different. Some people like being different, just to be different. Some people get tired of the status quo. Some people truly enjoy being different, and find it to be better for them.

    Some people are afraid of what's different, lashing out for no reason against something they don't or won't or can't understand.

    And that's just sad. :(
     
  11. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #11
    I hate that people get a Mac because it's "different". "Ooooh, I like it when I bring out my PowerBook and people stare at it, even though there are many other people have a laptop. It gets a lot of attention." Isn't that kinda......oh, I don't know.........sad? :eek:
     
  12. topicolo macrumors 68000

    topicolo

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    Jun 4, 2002
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
    #12
    What I really hate is when the mac evangelism turns into blind bigotry.
    When some windows supporter proves without a doubt that a certain machine is faster than a certain mac or something, everybody just goes back to the "so what if it's faster, the mac's still better" argument with nothing to back them up, which is really really annoying.
    These same people then go post a thread about how pc users are childish because they make fake claims of what the mac can't do.

    If you're going to claim something, back it up!

    *sorry for the rant*
     
  13. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

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    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    back in NYC!
    #13
    they are both different and better for different people. A PC was better for me a year ago, but now a Mac is better for me.

    Arguing which one is better is like arguing whether vanilla ice cream or chocolate ice cream is better (Vanille > Chocolate ;)). It is pure opinion, and no amount of arguing will make a chocolate lover like vanilla.

    I love my stance on computers. I think of myself being a healthy median between the two platforms, and I like to show PC people that macs have benifits, and I like to show Mac people that PC's have benifits.



    scem0
     
  14. the_wallcrawler macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    #14
    faster does not equal better.

    both sides do it. it will NEVER change. use what you want, ignore the rest.
     
  15. cyberddot macrumors 6502

    cyberddot

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    #15
    I like some chocolate ice creams, and some vanillas, but not all are created equal. The right brand might convert someone, but it's their choice to make.

    I like the tool analogy. Ya can't argue that it's damn near impossible to get a hammer to do a screwdriver's work...though I have used a screwdriver as a hammer. Fact is you can't drive nails or turn screws with a laptop (sans robotics), no matter what the OS.

    Aside from some karmic benefit to sounding moderate, there's nothing wrong with healthy debate. Competition is what's raising those CPU speeds, right? Ad hominem ARGUEMENTS are what make the waters bloody.

    I think I'll go fold a lotus.

    dot
     
  16. MacFan26 macrumors 65816

    MacFan26

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    San Francisco, California
    #16
    While I have spent all my life on a Mac, I have always been willing to listen to a PC user tell me why the Windows platform is better, but I have found that most PC users don't even know why they are using the platform that they are. Windows has been branded as mainstream early on, so to the average user, everything else sucks. I think that when people on both sides resort to name calling, etc. it's just built up hostility that hopefully won't be as strong in the future.
     
  17. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #17
    True but.....

    on the other hand, some people purposely go against the mainstream and claim that "_______ sucks!!!" just because it's mainstream. Some people do this on purpose. ;)

    "World War 1 was fought with guns and tanks. World War 2 was fought with nuclear bombs and airplanes. World War 3 will be fought with sticks and stones."

    Its all sticks and stones will break my bones......we're like kids. :rolleyes:
     
  18. MacFan26 macrumors 65816

    MacFan26

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    #18
    Good point :)
     
  19. BaghdadBob macrumors 6502a

    BaghdadBob

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    #19
    Yeah, like music. Being mainstream doesn't necessarily mean something sucks, but mainstream things often do. There are always exceptions to this rule...Windows just doesn't happen to be one of them (just my humble opinion, of course ;) )...

    [Edit:] The above opinion, of course, is actually based on fact and experience...I think we can all agree that an opinion doesn't count (even if it's correct) unless it's backed up by real fact and thought. Not that that makes it anything other than an opinion, ala politics.
     
  20. QCassidy352 macrumors G3

    QCassidy352

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    Bay Area
    #20
    Re: Mac + PC fan = offended by everything!

    Those two paragraphs don't really make the same point... a hammer and a screwdriver are used for different things, so you can't say one is better than the other. Some car makes, on the other hand, really *are* better than others (and no, it's not just that the most expensive ones are the best). The engineering on a Ford is not only different from that of a Porsche, it is worse. There may be a place for both Porsches and Fords in the car market, but they are not of equal quality, and to argue otherwise is just silly.

    IMO, brands of computer are more like brands of cars than kinds of tools.
     
  21. cyberddot macrumors 6502

    cyberddot

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    #21
    Yeah, but he (switcheoff) gave us multiple choice analogies, and wasn't that nice?

    How 'bout brands of tools? A Stanley screwdriver is manufactured as well as a Craftsman hammer. It just depends on what kinds of jobs one tends to do and wether or not a specialized tool is necessary..?

    If we have only one Mac manufacturer and a multitude of "PC" manufacturers then how do we end up with a Porche/Ford analogy making more sense than the tool analogy? You're saying that Macs are to PCs as Porches are to Fords? What if I want a station wagon?

    Oh, but wait, I'm off topic. dot:eek:
     
  22. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #22
    I regularly use both a PC and a Mac so when PC vs. Mac debates start I usually agrue for which ever side is "losing" the debate. I guess I love being a Devil's Advocate. ;)


    Lethal
     
  23. QCassidy352 macrumors G3

    QCassidy352

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    #23
    You're quite right, the analogy only goes so far, but I *was not* saying Apple:porsche as PC:Ford. The reason I said that there is room in the market for both Porsches and Fords is that some people do want station wagons, and some people only buy american cars, and some people don't have $50,000 to spend on a car, etc.

    But the fact that you might want a station wagon doesn't change my point, which is a very simple one. If you want a station wagon, yes, maybe you will buy a Ford. But just because it serves a certain purpose does not make it as high quality as the Porsche.

    And just because you need/ want a certain brand of computer doesn't mean it's of equal quality as another brand of computer. There may be a place and a purpose for both PCs and Macs, but that doesn't make them equal.

    even more off topic: And if you want a station wagon, buy the Porsche Cayenne... technically an SUV, but really a glorified station wagon. :p (I'm not serious about that... I'm horrified that Porsche makes an SUV... but you know it will be a damn high quality SUV.)
     
  24. pEZ macrumors 6502

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    Feb 2, 2003
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    Madison, Wisconsin
    #24
    I'm a mac fan because i've used computers made by apple since i was five years old (Apple II GS).

    I totally agree that both sides have pros and cons. My iMac currently has a score of problems with it, some of which can be fixed, some of which i don't know how to fix, some of which are program bugs. I am totally willing to admit this, if someone were to ask me if I have problems with my computer.

    I am very good at OS X. I know a lot. But there is still so much for me to learn that I can't honestly say it never gives me problems.

    I only go off on people that come off as idiots. The blatant "Macs suck" being the best example of when i would traditionally snap. I don't handle ignorance very well, and I love this platform, so when the two mix, it's a bad situation. I've used PCs, but not enough to attack them intelligently. Therefore I simply say (when provoked) "My computer never crashes.", or something to that effect. I've found that a literal true statement is the best way to get your point across, for both Mac and PC bashing. My best friend uses PCs, and he completely understands why I use a Mac, and how it's an amazing platform and OS, but he doesn't have the time to learn a new system or the money to buy a new machine. So I let it go.

    Sorry about the rant - here's the bottom line - attacks don't work, so why bother? Whenever a Windows or Linux user attacks me about using a Mac, it only makes me more proud to use a Mac. And it irritates the HELL out of me when I see other Mac users being completely ignorant and bashing PCs when they also don't know what they're talking about. I then defend the PC platform, because the only way people will switch is if they see something nice on the other side, both in the users and in the machine.

    Apple's doing it's part, get to yours.

    edit: I just read my post, and it's relatively incoherent. I hope at least some of it makes sense.
     
  25. King Cobra macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    #25
    Biased claims suck.

    One of my classmates at Pascack Hills (H.S.) was PC pro and made the Mac bashing claim in two words.

    That's where I argue for Macs. Again, since I am more knowledgable and more concerned for Macs, I take greater offense against such phrases.

    I don't mind PC users that don't care for Macs up to the point in which they express their opinion in the form of a biased claim.


    BTW: Cars can only be compared to other cars, not computers. Tools can only be compared to other tools in the same way. You can't make a relationship with either one to computers...[stares at QCassidy352]
     

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