Mac Security Section?

Discussion in 'Site and Forum Feedback' started by Seasought, Mar 12, 2006.

  1. Seasought macrumors 65816

    Seasought

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    #1
    I realize that one of the Mac's call signs is it's inherent "better" security. Still, there are a variety of topics and software concerning security for Macs that I think would be very helpful for others to be aware of and discuss.

    There any chance of a Macintosh Security section popping up here at MacRumors?
     
  2. Mitthrawnuruodo Moderator emeritus

    Mitthrawnuruodo

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    #2
    Don't accept candy from strangers.

    Online everyone's a stranger.

    Done.
     
  3. Seasought thread starter macrumors 65816

    Seasought

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    #3
    If anything that helps reinforce the need for such a section here. :rolleyes:
     
  4. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #4
    If there isn't enough support for a networking section, there's nowhere near enough content for a security section.
     
  5. Seasought thread starter macrumors 65816

    Seasought

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    #5
    How is there not enough content for a security section?
     
  6. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

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    #6
  7. Seasought thread starter macrumors 65816

    Seasought

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    #7
    Not yet I suppose.

    It still seems like a broad enough topic to warrant a section. I guess I'm alone in this mindset here. :(
     
  8. BakedBeans macrumors 68040

    BakedBeans

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    #8
    Pretty much.

    Mac is so much more secure than Windows. Nothing to do with "smaller user group" because if you notice Mac still controls bother the Creative Market and the educational market. It's to do with them being more secure.

    No need for a spyware section - we dont get spyware
    No need for a virus section - we dont get viruses (it wasnt a virus before you start.)
    we do very very very very very very very very very very very very very occasionally have a minor security breach that people go mad over because of its rarity
     
  9. UKnjb macrumors 6502a

    UKnjb

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    #9
    FWIW, you are NOT alone. I so agree with you that a Security section would be worthwhile. I came here to this section just now to post the same suggestion as you.

    All of these guys who sit back and say that there are no Mac-related security issues may enjoy their currently well-founded comfort. But it does seem to smack of complacency. Bad days will come.
    Why does Apple have a firewall within their OS? Why do they release security updates - as recent as yesterday? Why is there an increasing number of security-related questions posted on these forums (with no sensible places to post them)? Why is Little Snitch such a popular app?

    I would support any move to have a Security-related section.
     
  10. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

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    #10

    Perhaps. However, I don't think there are enough threads about security now to justify a new section. In the past week, it would have seen about four new threads (just a guess, I can't be bothered checking).

    This doesn't change the fact it may become more relevant later on. Hopefully it won't though. :)
     
  11. UKnjb macrumors 6502a

    UKnjb

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    #11
    You MAY well be right (although, hopefully, the Titanic wouldn't sink); experience with all other systems suggests that you are wrong, if not now then at some stage in the near future. Do you not think, regardless, that there is a depressing air of smug complacency from the overwhelming number of contributors to these forums about security issues? Not being inflammatory here, but they are real concerns - and I repeat my point about Apple HAVING to feed security updates. If there was no inherent risk to security, why release these updates and why would Mac owners install them? Also, read the recent poll about how many users ran their machines on a routine basis as an Administrator and, further, how many of the replies questioned why shouldn't they and what was the deal anyway?

    As for the number of posts made, why not do a Search with Security as the keyword; you might be surprised at a) just how many are made and b) how little interest or number of replies to legitimate questions are made. Me, I have made several posts/threads on various security matters and got minimal or zero response. One was to do with problems installing a Rootkit (a particularly nasty piece of malware that can get slapped onto the OS) hunter and got no responses. Either it was too boring a subject, but then why didn't I get told? or it was regarded as irrelevant, but then why not get told again? or ---- nobody knew how to sort the problem. Or, finally, it was posted in the wrong place, because there was no OBVIOUS place to post it.

    If there was a Security section, then it would heighten awareness of the matter, problems not being manifest at the moment notwithstanding, and the number of constructive developments/threats/flags would increase.

    Hmmmmm ---- maybe I am ranting and I will stop.

    As a light-hearted ending, can I say how much I envy you your job (thread on "What is your job")? To combine fine-wine repping (and some of your Oz wines are soooooo good) with being at Uni. has to count as the best. And to do it all in Australia anyway is such a bonus.
     
  12. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #12
    Actually, this post demonstrates precisely why a security section is desirable.

    There have been major vulnerabilities found recently in OSX. The only reason we think of OSX as being so secure is because there isn't an active cracker community targeting it maliciously.

    This unwarranted sense of invulnerability is a dangerous thing.
     
  13. UKnjb macrumors 6502a

    UKnjb

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    #13
    So. So here is an instance, from yesterday, of a very very very etc. rare instance of a minor(????) security breach: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=186475. And the OP, sunrunner, detailed the nature of the breach:
    Something like 69 informed replies from the responding Macrumors experts indicated that they had no idea of how the breach had occurred. All sorts of suggestions were made as to possibilities, many implicating the OP as having a central role in the breach by an "error" of his. Maybe it was, maybe not. But the breach did occur. Understanding of nearly all of the high-tech explanations from the experts went right over my head and I like to think that I am more than aware of security issues. What about all of those out there who run their daily accounts with full admin. privileges and have file-sharing on etc BECAUSE there are no security problems with Macs?

    Further, what may be the first proper OS X virus/trojan has been described, with resultant woes from infectees, in another thread from 14 Feb, http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=180066

    So. So now we have, coincidentally, an example of a very very very rare event popping up following hard on the heels of a real piece of malware infecting OS X systems. There are NO Mac viruses/trojans malware etc around ---- er, um, yeah right. There is nothing to worry about. Er, right again.

    Do you really not think that informed understanding of security issues in Mac OS systems should be given a more prominent platform within at least this section of the Mac community? If there is major reluctance to have a sub-section in Macrumors, how about a detailed Guide? Compiled by a knowledgeable someone who is concerned about these issues and is not going to continuously repeat the mantra that all is safe, cosy and well in the Mac world?

    Bad bad days are really coming and we should all be looking over our shoulders.
     
  14. Mitthrawnuruodo Moderator emeritus

    Mitthrawnuruodo

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    #14
    Maybe... but probably not... and anyway, I've always been taking care of my self... see post #2... ;)

    And two threads in the same amount of weeks doesn't exactly demand a new forum, does it...? :rolleyes:
     
  15. mad jew Moderator emeritus

    mad jew

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    #15

    That's a much better idea. I could be completely wrong, but the purpose of a new forum is to take some of the strain off an existing one when it becomes inundated with a certain type of thread. I don't see security issues doing this yet and therefore a new forum really has no purpose IMO.

    Of course, this is merely my interpretation of how MacRumors works and I could be completely wrong. However, most of these threads asking for new forums have a trend for not working. So, in other words MacRumors seems to be aiming for larger forums with broader topics rather than smaller forums with more specific topics.



    Maybe, but this isn't relevant. As important as security issues are, if there's only a few threads talking about them then a new forum can't really be justified.

    I think the guide is a brilliant idea. If I was smarter (and knew how to use Wiki software), I'd give it a go but I'm not very knowledgeable in that area.

    New forums: it's about the volume of threads, not their significance (now or in the future). :)

    Oh, and yeah, I'm one lucky guy. :p
     
  16. combatcolin macrumors 68020

    combatcolin

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    #16
    It would be very naive to asume that the Mac will always be as secure as it is now.
     
  17. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #17
    If recent reports are to believed, it isn't that secure at all even now, just "un-attacked".
     
  18. Applespider macrumors G4

    Applespider

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    #18
    Usually, a new forum is created when an existing one is over-run by threads on one subject - not just because we think it might be needed in the future. Or if questions are so varied that people get confused over where to post.

    When Mac security issues become so much of an issue that 10-20% of all threads on OS X are about security/spyware/malware, then I guess a subforum will appear.

    Currently, although issues come up, there haven't yet been enough of them to justify a 'home' of their own.
     
  19. UKnjb macrumors 6502a

    UKnjb

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    #19
    Hello!
    I'm getting a bit concerned that this is turning into a hobby-horse of mine and that there is a deal of unwarranted tenacity. Sorry - it's all benign.

    If you look at the current Forum details on the front page of MR, iPod Gear/Discussions currently has a total of 263 posts with 49 threads.
    Mac Guides has 700 posts and 80 threads.
    A search for the keyword "Security" gives 500 posts, distributed across the range of forums.
    Don't those numbers alone justify the establishment of the new sub-forum, or is there something special about iPods and Mac Guides?
    You have suggested that if 10-20% of OS X posts (why those figures - 10% - 20% of current OSX posts [46903] would be 4690 to 9380) were reached, then a sub-forum could be considered ; seems a load of posts to me.

    And why the OS X forum? Why not Hardware, Mac Apps or Mac Basics? It is precisely because it is not at all clear where security matters should be posted that it seems sensible, especially now, to have a clear place to put these posts.

    Maybe I am missing the point of macrumors and for that I am sorry. I thought that it would function as a mutually supportive community of basically like-minded people with each other's interests at heart. Within that, isn't there a place for proactivity, rather than reacting as events unfold? I am certain that I am not missing the point about the approaching mayhem and grief that security vulnerabilities within Macs will cause; laying the foundations of good practice for all of us within a suitable area of this site seems ---- obvious to me!!!

    Guide, sub-forum, whatever.
     
  20. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #20
    If that were true, there would only be (at most) 10 forums on MacRumors.
     
  21. Mitthrawnuruodo Moderator emeritus

    Mitthrawnuruodo

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    #21
    Please notice that those mentioned forums (and a few others) has very specific functions. iPodGear.com is another page in the MR "family", along with e.g. DailyTunes.com and MacBytes.com, and the Mac Guides services the Guides here at MR.

    The forums had a major revision just a couple of months ago, and I doubt it's time for another one. Of course, the next time around you're all free to suggest the need for a Security forum, but at the moment there aren't enough threads (nor threats, but that's not really the issue ;)) to justify another forum.
     
  22. emw macrumors G4

    emw

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    #22
    I think the number you show above for iPod Gear/Discussions is more a case to eliminate that subforum than to justify a new one for Security. And there is something special about Mac Guides as it specifically targeted to people helping to develop the Guides section of this forum.

    That being said, I'm not specifically opposed to a Security section, but to use the justification that there have been a whole 500 posts on the subject is not really all that sound. I'd guess there have been more than 500 posts on a large number of subjects from shaving to Safari, but we don't establish a new sub-forum for them.

    I agree that security is somewhat of an issue, and sticking our heads in the sand and saying it's not our problem is the wrong response, but I think a better choice would be to leverage the Guides to have information on how to set wireless security, setting up Admin accounts, etc. Most discussions of "viruses" end up in the News pages anyway.
     
  23. frankblundt macrumors 65816

    frankblundt

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    #23
    You can't have it both ways. You want a new forum for security issues and yet you apparently find the responses of the community here to security issues inadequate. Should we add a new forum so that there can be a single area for security threads started by panicked new users and our (apparently pointless) ignorant responses? At least it would get them out of the way of the other forums.

    If you check those 500 security posts, you'll find a lot of them are from Windows switchers asking if they need spyware removal software etc. There have been a lot lately regarding the LEAP trojan, but again, mostly only containing some variant on "OMG!!!" or "It's a VIRUS!!!!" or "No it's not a virus, it's a trojan".

    Every now and then a new thread is started on the topic of Admin vs User accounts (by those who couldn't find the relevant info by searching), but as far as i can tell this is a Mac Basics or X topic as much (or more so) than one especially relating to security.
     
  24. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

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    #24
    There was much more activity than usual on security topics recently because of last month's "incident". Any decision we make should be based on our "steady-state" level of interest in the topic.
     
  25. UKnjb macrumors 6502a

    UKnjb

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    #25
    My apologies for not being clear. I did not want to imply that the responses were inadequate. Far from it; they were very detailed and exhibited an impressively technical knowledge of how Macs were configured on a network. And, as I said, it went right over my head. The point that I had hoped to make was that a collection of experts had been unable to provide the mechanism of why the breach had happened (written at the time of that post, at least; when I last checked, there had been a final post that seemed to draw all of the previous ones into a final hypothesis - but a hypothesis only - as to how the breach had occurred). That was so not to imply their inadequacy, just more how the experts were being baffled. I do wonder how you inferred 'pointless', along with inadequacy, from what I wrote? I cannot see anything there that would warrant it.

    If I can make my own (possible) misunderstanding of what you have written. You seem, nope - actually do - to say that people who post on security issues are "panicking". This is a bit harsh, surely? What is it in their posts that suggests panic? Why are they not being interested and wanting information on a subject? Your comments about new users cluttering up established forums with their panicky questions are well-noted and I, for one, shall certainly be very circumspect from now on in posting anything that might fall into that category.

    I now suspect that this thread has probably well reached its sell-by date and can now only descend into a did/didn't/did/didn't style exchange of views. That there is not a commonly-held belief that a new sub-forum for Security issues is either desirable or necessary is now obvious. End of story, at least for me.

    it has been interesting, at least for me, to get the feedback on this topic. It is reassuring to note the emormous amount of confidence that Mac users have in the inherent security of their systems. And I look forward to the next security update from Apple.
     

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