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janey

macrumors 603
Dec 20, 2002
5,316
0
sunny los angeles
Originally posted by Mav451
And voila -- you got a stable OS w/o the bloated services running in the background.

*many of my friends ran into problems with win2k--mostly software/hardware support--with xp, those issues were virtually eliminated.
true...but for me win2k does everything i want it to do, plus i'm not in the mood to install yet another operating system on my PC so i'm sticking with 2k until something better than xp comes out
 

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
5,684
1
LaLaLand, CA
Originally posted by jefhatfield
my pc laptop was six months too old to be 100 percent compatible with that operating system so some stuff does not work...like the modem...but it's ok for coding and for ms office stuff

for cruising around on the net, i need my modem so i use windows 98, even though it crashes more than w2k

Have you tried e-mailing the company, or http://www.driverguide.com/ for those drivers? Worked for me with old modems. What kind of Laptop do you have?

Even with different themes and hacks, XP still sucks. :D
 

GulGnu

macrumors regular
Apr 6, 2003
156
0
Originally posted by übergeek
we should all switch back to system 7 heehee :D
anyway, windows millennium, 9x and previous versions all SUCKED.
win nt/2k were okay
XP == the worst operating system on the face of this planet
i cant help but puke when i look at the heinous color of the start button
personally i'm a win2k user. xp is too damn ugly to use, plus it's not as stable as 2k
windows 2k has got to be the best operating system ever to come out of redmond.

You do know you can change the color of the start button? Hell, you can put XP in "classic mode" or whatever it's called, and it looks pretty much like 2K. Still, if you have 2K there aren't very many compelling reasons to switch to XP.

Regards / GulGnu

-Stabil som fan!
 

tazo

macrumors 68040
i think that there is not much of a difference between 98se and 2k if the ram used with them is the same. i have ran 2k before on a 667 PIII with 384mb of ram, and 2k still crashed on plenty of applications; well actually just word, a mp3 player, and IE6.

I think there is this big myth that needs to be debunked that 2k is so much better than 98SE
 

dstorey

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2002
527
0
A lot of security experts seem to say never update past w2k...what with all the major security problems like univeral plug and play that you cant deactivate cause m$ uto reactivates it, to the policy you have to sign to allow m$ access to all you files, to the spyware thats built in all over xp...i guess w2k came out before all that spyware stuff that was built into media player 8 etc etc. Though i guess previous ms os's have it all over...hell my firewall even warns me that my kernal and myt ms mouse try to connect to ms servers, and its only 98 2nd editon....like why the hell does a mouse need to connect to the net? i havnt got os or software auto updates on so it cant be that...
 

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
5,684
1
LaLaLand, CA
My Win2000 firewall is always asking me if weird programs can access the internet. Makes me nervous.

UPDATE THIS SPYWARE!!!

Ok, chill pill. Mostly it's just programs wanting to update themselves. But still. Never had this problem on my 28.8 and 56K OS 8 and 9 systems (Win9x was another story).

People wonder why I like Macs. You don't have to run a billion programs all the time to make sure it works right - virus scanner, firewalls, regcleaner, spyware remover, various haxies...

Macs don't seem so slow after all.
 

jefhatfield

Retired
Jul 9, 2000
8,803
0
Originally posted by solvs
Have you tried e-mailing the company, or http://www.driverguide.com/ for those drivers? Worked for me with old modems. What kind of Laptop do you have?

Even with different themes and hacks, XP still sucks. :D

drivers are available for slightly newer stuff

i would have to write my own...and many old pc techs do with nt technology based operating systems...it was once a highly needed skill
 

SiliconAddict

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2003
5,889
0
Chicago, IL
A little rant I posted to zdnet a few days ago:

My first and only Mac was an Apple ][e oh so long ago. It was no great shake. My first PC was a (God help me.) Packard Bell Pent 90 with an 810 hard drive. Since then all I've ever used has been Wintel and all laptops. A Compaq Presario first then a Toshiba Sat, now a Dell Latitude. Nice system. Throughout this entire time I've played with Macs from time to time. OS 8 OS 9, etc. I've never been impressed. Always thought Mac OS was a huge joke Jobs was playing on the Mac user base. If someone mentioned Mac OS as being better then Windows I would point them to WinNT and tell them otherwise. When W2K came out I thought it was a godsend. MS took the best of NT and the best GUI aspects of 98 and smashed it together to make one heck of a fine OS. Still insecure as heck but what OS is perfect right? Last fall a friend of mine purchased a used iBook with OSX 1. I'm sorry but it’s a sexy beast. The underpinnings of the system have Unix that is synonymous with a strong stable secure OS. Still I wasn’t that interested.
It wasn’t until Jaguar made its way onto the scene with little refinements that my interest was perked. Most times I didn’t jump onto the newest version of Windows until SP1 at least came out. Jaguar was SP1+ for OSX. About 2 months ago, I think, I was walking through the Mall of America and ran across an Apple Store. (heh Didn’t know they had one in there.) Figured what the heck and went in. 3 Word. 17 inch PowerBook. Oh my god is that laptop sexy. It’s the Porsche of the laptop world with the engine of a Geo Metro :p I realized it was time to get myself my first Mac since my ][e. However the system itself is in need of a major tune-up IMHO. With the G5’s soon to be released I expect some revamps this fall in the laptop product line. Probably not a G5, wishful thinking, but from the rumor sites it may be a revamped G4 1.3Ghz chip. Assuming it gives the system a decent performance boost I’m getting one.

Apple still has the potential to be a player in the PC game. 3 things NEED to happen, IMHO.

First they need to stop being so damn stubborn about change. It has taken apple how long to update the architecture of their desktop line?!?! It’s insane. Hardware needs to be revamped on a more frequent basis. I’m not talking once every 6 months but enough to stay abreast with PC hardware in terms of speed.
They NEED a cheaper G5 model to attract the price conscious family. The G4 simply doesn’t get it done in comparison to PC hardware. If Apple could produce a G5 around $1,500 with a monitor you would have a sweet machine.
Finally software selection. I stick to my notion that without more software backing the Mac platform Apple has no place to go but down. Therein lies the problem. It’s a standard catch 22. Software developers aren’t going to develop for a platform that doesn’t have a decent user base and the average consumer isn’t going to touch a device that has limited software support. Mac users claim that the software on a Mac is quality and PC’s software has quality but also has a lot of filler. This may be the case but the appearance of having a large software selection (Show me quality software by walking down the rows of Best Buy or CompUSA.) is going to further kill Apple. Not all it once. A slow death.

So why am I even bothering with a Mac if I think its dieing? Simple. It ain’t dead yet and with Virtual PC I can run Windows 2K perfectly fine. I also have another reason. Actually I have 2,557 reasons. That is the number of security patches, bug hole fixes in Windows 2000 SP1-4. This isn’t even bothering with SP’s for EI. How many more hundred would that encompass? Its ridiculous that end users have to be beta testers for MS Operating systems. Sure I have few problems with 2K but there it it in black and white. I compiled a spreadsheet of all 4 SP updates. Go to MS’s site sometime and scroll through the list of what is fixed in each SP. Its insane stuff like: Error Message: The Event Log File Is Corrupt, Deadlock in USB Stack While Resuming from Suspend, You May Not Be Able to Install Game Controllers on Some Windows 2000-Based Computers, Write Caching Settings for Hard Disk May Not Persist After You Restart Your Computer, OL2000: Error Message: "Explorer.exe Has Generated Errors ..." When You Search for Files or Folders, Explorer.exe Hangs on ALT+F4 If Shutdown Restrictions Are in Use, Explorer.exe Generates Errors During Search on Remote Computer That Has No Shared Folders. And on and on and on and on and ON!! Sure. I don’t expect an OS to be perfect but hell I’m surprised W2K even freaking runs let alone the fact that I’m had my desktop up for months without a problem. I’m sick of dealing with patches. I’m sick of dealing with heavy handed tactics *coughs*Paladium*coughs*Product Activation*coughs*DRM*coughs* Honestly I’m just sick of dealing with windows and having to go over to my relatives houses once every 6 months to fix something that broke in XP or ME.
My argument with anyone who defended Apple was look at NT and 2K. They are stable. They don’t crash!! It’s no longer about stability. The kernel may stay up but how many other things can break in the OS? My favorite is having Explorer.exe blow up on me because I’m browsing a website which ends up taking down my entire GUI. (Hence the reason I no longer use IE at all.) What do I do? ctrl-alt-del. Task manager. Run. Explorer.exe. I equate that with having your car stall on you while its still rolling. I will keep my desktop around simply because I want to play windows games. There are a few that I like that can’t be found on a console or on the Mac but other then that I see no reason to stick with Windows. The next major revamp of Windows will be with Longhorn in 2005. I use to get onboard with the Consumer Preview release of ANY version of MS Windows I got excited over it because I expected better, stronger, faster. Frankly at this point I just don’t give a damn about Windows anymore.

This is how I'm starting to feel about Windows and is why OSX has started to peek my interest. My main concern isn't with the OS but the hardware. I don't care what anyone says I've looked at the Specs on the 17" PB. They are very weak for a notebook that costs OVER 3 grand. I have no problems paying 3 grand on a laptop, OK I do have problems but I can live with it :p , but the hardware has to be good. Look at the specs.

-The hard drive is a large one at 60GB but its only 4200RPM. Most PC laptops are at 5400 now with 7200 now showing up.

-The system bus speeds is highly lacking at 166Mhz. Looking at the memory speed of 333 there IS a major bottleneck there. This needs to be fixed. It’s a no brainer that you wouldn’t expect something like the new PowerMacs 1Ghz bus but make it respectable. Maybe 300Mhz? 400Mhz?

-Dell laptops have the ability to go up to 1920x1200 on their wide aspect screen. Apple needs to jack up the res on their 17” PowerBook. Is this not their baby? Their top of the line? I suppose it could be argued that the current res is enough for mobile pros and would most likely affect battery life. If someone what’s something higher they can attach an external monitor. But still. I’ve seen Dell’s Inspiron 8500. The screen is beautiful at that resolution. Again. $3,000 I really expect the best.

-On the CPU side of things…Who knows. I have yet to see any real world speeds tests matching a 17” PB G4 1Ghz against a new Pentium M chip. This is what is going to gauge when\if I switch. This “speed is relative” crap is just that. I don’t see Mac users now saying speed is relative anymore now that the G5 is about to smoke a P4. The same can be said of the Powerbook. Show me some benchmarks.


It boils down to this: Apple released a new series of notebooks this spring. Now they are releasing a new series of desktops. The desktops are revolutionary in speed, and design. Can the same be said of their notebook line? The specs I’ve seen in that little 17” PowerBook brochure in the Apple store tells me no. It was a refresh of the laptop line. A speedbump as you guys call it. But overall it’s not an enhancement like we saw in the PowerMac line. Until that occurs (Be it a G4 or a G5 that is contained in its guts.) I feel like I’d be throwing my money away by purchasing a $3,000 that has $2,500 specs at best. I guess my biggest beef is that in the past when I go out to buy a new PC I try and future proof it as best as possible by doing my homework on the various models. Reading the reviews. Checking things out. Anyone who spends that kinda money should do this right? The PowerBook line seems like its last years model in some ways. I get twitchy thinking that I'm getting something that won't be able to run Apple's next OS after Panther.
*shrugs* Then again it maybe my PC mindframe that is the problem there. From everything I've read Macs age more gracefully then PC's.
 

Pete_Hoover

macrumors regular
Apr 29, 2003
145
0
Originally posted by solvs
WindowsME was terrible. 98 without the DOS underpinnings (turns out that was what was holding it up). I constantly had problems with 98 - 1st, 2nd, and 4th (WinME - that's what it says it is, Win98 4th edition). So I upgraded to 2000. And things were ok. For awhile. But yeah, I did have a lot of hardware incompatibilities and issues. Multimedia's not so great.

But there is no way I'm upgrading to XP. I though 2000 was ugly. Maybe XP Pro is better, but after playing with XP for awhile on several machines (and spending hours fixing my Moms Sony), you will never see me use XP. Even if it looked better. I'm sure other people have had better luck, but color me unimpressed.

Sometimes I wish I still had my old Performa 6400 with OS 8. Thing was slow as heck, but it ran circles around my 166 MHz Win95 P1. Still works too, after all these years. Long since my 166 kicked the bucket. Moms got it at her school.

Can't wait to get my new Mac with OS X. The best OS I've ever used.

Hardware's hardware.

If you don't like the way XP looks, swtch to the classic windows theme. As for the bugs in XP, the magic word is reinstall.
 

ZildjianKX

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2003
1,610
0
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
I guess my biggest beef is that in the past when I go out to buy a new PC I try and future proof it as best as possible by doing my homework on the various models. Reading the reviews. Checking things out. Anyone who spends that kinda money should do this right? The PowerBook line seems like its last years model in some ways. I get twitchy thinking that I'm getting something that won't be able to run Apple's next OS after Panther.
*shrugs* Then again it maybe my PC mindframe that is the problem there. From everything I've read Macs age more gracefully then PC's.

I totally agree with ya. Buying a current G4 notebook is hardly future-proof. Its very hard to say a laptop is future proof when the desktops just took a huge jump in processor architecture and speed. I don't care what anyone whines in here, the G4 notebooks are a screw at their current price and specs.
 

G4scott

macrumors 68020
Jan 9, 2002
2,225
5
USA_WA
While microsoft may be catching up to Apple in turns of OS usability and friendliness, microsoft is about to take a huge leap in the wrong direction. Windows Longhorn seems to have everything it needs to compete with the Mac OS of today, being only 2 years late. The only problem with longhorn is Microsoft's digital rights management, or DRM. You see, they want to restrict computer usage so much, you might possibly have to pay every time you want to watch a DVD on your computer, or play a certain song. Microsoft may be doing this to get on better terms with software and content providers, but it does almost nothing for the user. They are taking the human element out of computing.

That's where Apple beats microsoft in every way possible. You can have the best technology, but if it doesn't work well with people, it's worthless.

I see the release of longhorn, or whatever m$ is going to call it, as a very huge opportunity for Apple to reclaim market share. They need a massive advertising campaign like no ad campaign seen to date. Apple needs to show the blind followers of microsoft that there is an alternative, and that it works. By the time longhorn is ready for release, and many people are looking to upgrade their windows boxes, Apple should hopefully be poised to strike.

The Mac vs. PC argument is no longer about hardware, but about the software. The ease of use. The productivity. Apple is far ahead of the competition. M$ is stuck in corporate la-la-land, and Linux has almost nothing to give to simple computer users. Apple needs to get to work...
 

Fender2112

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2002
1,135
374
Charlotte, NC
Re: The reasons

Originally posted by Mav451
...I want to pose the question to all mac users and perhaps pc users--what if the Mac OS was brought over to PC's as well?

I don't think it's the chips (g4 and g5) that mac users value the most--it's consistently mentioned how much they love the OS....

I've made simular comments myself.

1. I don't care what chip Apple uses as long as the OS X is stable and fast. It's about the OS not the chip.

2. Very rarely do you hear a PC user say "You know, I really like Windows." With them it's about the hardware. "I have alot of options" "I can build it myself." ...yadda yadda yadda...

3. But Windows has more games. a) Alot of which is crap. b) Only the better ones make to the Mac. 3) When playing a game, how much interaction with Windows do REALLY have or need...not much.
 

Fender2112

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2002
1,135
374
Charlotte, NC
Originally posted by ZildjianKX
I totally agree with ya. Buying a current G4 notebook is hardly future-proof. Its very hard to say a laptop is future proof when the desktops just took a huge jump in processor architecture and speed. I don't care what anyone whines in here, the G4 notebooks are a screw at their current price and specs.

This is one of the reasons why I feel that Apple must be quick to revamp all their computers, not just the PowerMac. The iBook and PowerBook have been Apple's best sellers the past few years and the iMacs haven't done bad. I have a feeling alot of buyers will wait to see what Apple does next before making their next purchase. I know I am.

"I can't make up mind between the PowerBook or the iMac. Ohh! Apple just announced their G5. Maybe I should wait." This means sales well drop fast.

The G5 is not just a speed up. It's a major overhaul that Mac users have been begging for. Apple can't afford to let the rest of their products get left behind.

If Apple does not revamp the rest of their line, it will not be about Apple keeping up with Intel. It will be about Apple keeping up with Apple.
 

blogo

macrumors 6502
Apr 1, 2002
290
0
Originally posted by tazo
XP is almost as stable as OS X. the claim can no longer be made that either side's OS is unstable. Lets face it, OS 9 was crap, but then again so was 98.

Ths OS is mostly stable, but compared to my mac i got more application crashes and bugs under XP, than OSX, maybe it is how well they are programmed or how the OS handles them, anyway when you think about overall system operations a mac is more stable, atleast in my life :)
 

ZildjianKX

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2003
1,610
0
Re: Re: The reasons

Originally posted by Fender2112
3. But Windows has more games. a) Alot of which is crap. b) Only the better ones make to the Mac. 3) When playing a game, how much interaction with Windows do REALLY have or need...not much.

What about Half-Life... huh?
 

shadowfax

macrumors 603
Sep 6, 2002
5,849
0
Houston, TX
Re: Re: Re: The reasons

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
What about Half-Life... huh?
seriously, that game should have been ported a long time ago. i wonder if they will get off their balls and make HL2 mac released at the same time.
 

ZildjianKX

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2003
1,610
0
Re: Re: Re: Re: The reasons

Originally posted by Shadowfax
seriously, that game should have been ported a long time ago. i wonder if they will get off their balls and make HL2 mac released at the same time.

I'm sure it won't get released on the mac at the same time... I was kind of hoping HL1 would get leaked out sort of like how HL1 got leaked out for DC years after development ended... oh well, one can dream.
 

jefhatfield

Retired
Jul 9, 2000
8,803
0
apple has closed the gap about fifty percent for me compared to the best pc boxes and laptops

to complete the job, it would be nice to see G5 powerbooks and G4 ibooks by christmas and keep the prices the same

the imac and emac could stay G4 maybe a little longer than that, but have the speed and ram upped and realize nobody wants just 256 MB of ram on any machine these days...and a better video card would not hurt either

if those things happen late this year and early next year, a new computer user may see the mac as equal to the pc and we won't have to be the "slower" or "weaker" alternative in home computing

and who knows? some pc people may actually make the switch
 

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
5,684
1
LaLaLand, CA
Originally posted by Pete_Hoover
If you don't like the way XP looks, swtch to the classic windows theme. As for the bugs in XP, the magic word is reinstall.

Apparently you missed my next post. I know about themes, and changing the way it looks. It still an ugly interface. And very bloated IMO. OS X gets faster as it adds more features, Windows gets slower and less user-centric.

And why would I want to reinstall on a fairly new machine? Why should I have to? Besides the fact that if you reinstall the OS, it reformats the hard drive. I know that's Sony and other OEMs, not Windows, but it's a stupid idea and I don't know why they ever allowed it. Probably so you'd pay for an upgrade when things invariably go to Hell. Then the computer is no longer supported.

As you can see, a lot of my problems come with OEMs. And there are more. But if I'm building my own machine, I also don't want to have to ask M$s permission to make changes to my system. I don't care how many times I can change things, the fact that they do this at all bugs me. Removes the one good thing about PCs - being able to build and upgrade as you wish (if you can get drivers... that work).

Now with Palladium and DRM... how can that not scare you?
 

ZildjianKX

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2003
1,610
0
Originally posted by solvs
And why would I want to reinstall on a fairly new machine? Why should I have to? Besides the fact that if you reinstall the OS, it reformats the hard drive. I know that's Sony and other OEMs, not Windows, but it's a stupid idea and I don't know why they ever allowed it. Probably so you'd pay for an upgrade when things invariably go to Hell. Then the computer is no longer supported.

You'd want to reinstall a new machine because you bought it from a vendor instead of building it yourself. People wonder why Dells and Compaqs run like crap, they put crap in the OS. If you have a real Windows XP CD, you don't have to format to reinstall, you can either install it over itself and it keeps all your settings, or you can do a repair. But if you really bought it from a vendor I'd format it the second it hit my hands... plus if you hate the hardware activation of MS, just buy a Pro version of XP and use a corporate CD key, it bypasses activation and that's not piracy in my book.
 

shadowfax

macrumors 603
Sep 6, 2002
5,849
0
Houston, TX
Originally posted by solvs
Apparently you missed my next post. I know about themes, and changing the way it looks. It still an ugly interface. And very bloated IMO. OS X gets faster as it adds more features, Windows gets slower and less user-centric.
i dunno about that, XP has a lot of user centric features. the style for explorer has been mimicked by apple in the new finder. the start menu is pretty user-centric too, especially the XP version. XP is the most user centric OS that MS has put out. by far.

problem is, i don't believe in user centrism. i don't want a computer that has some formulaic user cetrism that is supposed to work for everyone. i organize my computer the way i like it, put things where i can find them, not so that they get put in some place via an algorithm based on how often i use them. i don't appreciate that apple is following suit with that stupid finder. Steve talks about how the user folder is badly designed because it is 3 levels in, but that's bull. on my jag finder, it's right up on the toolbar on top, as is anything else i want up there. why would i want it to take up a whole column? and what makes it so user centric, anyway? it's just more bunk to get around, for me, and XP was better at letting you revert, allowing for the "classic" start menu style.

also, i don't see how the OS GUI is bloated. i agree that the OS is, but most of the interface has all the basic functionality of OS X... the file etc menus are on a per window basis and the interface depends on right clicking (though rarely), but it isn't bloated...
 

SiliconAddict

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2003
5,889
0
Chicago, IL
Originally posted by Shadowfax
i dunno about that, XP has a lot of user centric features. the style for explorer has been mimicked by apple in the new finder. the start menu is pretty user-centric too, especially the XP version.


The start menu is a damn mess. I kid you not. The shortcuts for programs are all over the place. I mentioned above that I support my uncle's XP box right? Well NT, 2K, XP all use individual profiles for each user so when they log onto the system they have their own settings. This isn't anything you guys didn't know right?
Where is becomes a PITA is when you log into a users profile, in the case of my uncle he has 2 kids, himself and his wife, and install software. Good programmers give you the option of “for just this user” or everyone. However most programs don't do this and install it in that users profile. Consequently when another user logs in they are scratching their head wondering why the program Josh installed isn't there.
I would question the user centricness (Woot I made a new word.) of the Start Menu. The only revamp they really did was to add the most commonly used apps to the root of the start menu. How is this diff from adding the apps you use most to a toolbar in Windows or the bar in OSX (Sorry don't know the name of it. Remember newbie here. :p )
The start menu as a whole I think is a cool Idea but once again it wasn't thought up by MS. They "borrowed" the idea.
 

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,537
398
Middle Earth
My Thoughts

I like both platforms. Honestly I cannot understand why people limit themselves to one platform.

For instance you could scrape together a 2.4-2.6Ghz PC for $500

You can get a G4 machine with a 700Mhz processor for $799. Nothing beats being cross platform. I can run anything.

However what I think Mac users will find is that PC Developers can be somewhat rogueish. Just yesterday I had to use Ad-aware and remove copious amounts of Data Miners(Gator, Bonzi Buddy etc) from my Mothers PC. I routinely have to do this because she likes downloading all these "cute" little things for her PC. She doesn't realize that they could potentially be giving more info about her than she expected.

I also had to shut down Net Send. My God she had a Netsend popup coming every time she logged in and out. Rediculous. If this is the kind of treatment users get from being a member of the %95 Windows users then I'll happily enjoy Apple as less than %10. Users shouldn't have to cripple their OS to prevent annoyances.

Both Win2k/XP/OSX are all stable. However the dearth of viruses and rogue Developers makes Macintosh computing so much more of a joy IMO. Both have their place but I honestly believe that Apple will be much easier to get along with for the neophyte.
 

shadowfax

macrumors 603
Sep 6, 2002
5,849
0
Houston, TX
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
The start menu is a damn mess. I kid you not. The shortcuts for programs are all over the place. I mentioned above that I support my uncle's XP box right? Well NT, 2K, XP all use individual profiles for each user so when they log onto the system they have their own settings. This isn't anything you guys didn't know right?
Where is becomes a PITA is when you log into a users profile, in the case of my uncle he has 2 kids, himself and his wife, and install software. Good programmers give you the option of “for just this user” or everyone. However most programs don't do this and install it in that users profile. Consequently when another user logs in they are scratching their head wondering why the program Josh installed isn't there.
I would question the user centricness (Woot I made a new word.) of the Start Menu. The only revamp they really did was to add the most commonly used apps to the root of the start menu. How is this diff from adding the apps you use most to a toolbar in Windows or the bar in OSX (Sorry don't know the name of it. Remember newbie here. :p )
The start menu as a whole I think is a cool Idea but once again it wasn't thought up by MS. They "borrowed" the idea.
true, that "user only" thing is badly implemented, but that actually traces back to problems with the 3rd party programmers who don't have the brains to follow program guidelines. i don't think that the new start menu is a cool idea, myself, but i agree that either way MS implemented it verypoorly.
 
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