MacNet article ripping Apple

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by Swordsman, May 9, 2003.

  1. Swordsman macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    #1
  2. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #2
    I think he makes a point here and there. But the artical seems so negative and pessimsitic that I got the feeling that he was being an "anti-zealot" zealot. Where as a Mac zealot always defends Apple, he seemed intent on only tearing down Apple. Of course neither POV, Mac zealot nor anti-zealot zealot, really has a firm grip on reality.


    Lethal
     
  3. Les Kern macrumors 68040

    Les Kern

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Location:
    Alabama
    #3
    I'm having trouble following the chain of events on this. When did the screen break? Looks to me that the lid was closed by just quickly pulling forward on the center/top of the screen to close it. The hinges, being tight, would cause the screen to bow? Notice how he handles the laptop in the video. Not exactly kid gloves. In a nutshell I fail to see why Apple should fix it based on what I read and saw. The article was indeed filled with vitriol, but had some valid points, but only so valid if you convert them to sound-bytes and comment on them one at a time. Some are good, some are misleading as hell.
     
  4. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #4
    OMG, did anyone read the "The day the record store died" article? Talk about pointless fluff piece... Here is my favorite part,


    Apple did what...how? Where does he, the store owner, think songs on P2P networks come from in the first place? People buy CDs, rip them, and put them on P2P. Apple isn't putting any more music "on the black market." than he, or any other music retailer is.

    Part of me wants to feel sorry for the owner, but the article makes him out to be so bitter and jaded it's hard to feel for him.


    Lethal
     
  5. patrick0brien macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #5
    That's the sound of a fellow who's been pushed over the edge.

    I'm sorry to see him go, but he's had a bad run of luck. And when a person's ego is so wrapped up in something that winds up going wrong on them, well, we just read the result.

    I'm glad none of this stuff has happened to me, and I have always treated my highly-portable and thusly highly-damageable 12" PowerBook with white gloves. I will continue to do so.
     
  6. G4scott macrumors 68020

    G4scott

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    #6
    This guy seems like a fraud, trying to milk AppleCare for all it's worth, and more.

    I find it hard to believe that every computer he's ever bought has broken and needed to be repaired. The only problems I've had are a bad modem (probably got fried in a storm), and 2 CD drives on 2 iBooks, both because of wear and tear.
     
  7. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #7
    i think he has lots of great points. seems like he just needed to vent. personally i feel most of us if not all of us are overly satisfied with os x. i have a dual 1.25 and i think os x runs great and very fast. i think this should be apple's goal. get the speed of this machine into the lowest and slowest version of an apple computer. because i play with the ibooks at work, they are ok but not great. things are slow and sometimes annoying. i just think apple just find out why people use windows, and try to solve the problems to get it to apple. this is my reason, there is a piss poor amount of games for mac os x. i dont care if get sims and the tycoons, thats just the tip of the iceberg. and i honestly feel we wont get much more games because microsofts ultimatly controls our games, if we dont get direct x, we will never have as many games as the windows world. and as long as this is true there will always be a pc next to me. i dont care about gamecube, xbox , of ps2, i have all of them and the graphics cant compete with a good pc rig, also in game volume. although i will agree that the consoles are a cheap and excellent alternative to a good gaming system for a person and his friends. also, this guys reviews on the xserve is a joke, apparently i dont think he has played with one, i have one and its excellent for anyone, no matter how much server work is being done.

    iJon
     
  8. technocoy macrumors 6502a

    technocoy

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    #8
    this guy is a punk...

    this man has milked apple several times and they have finally gotten wise to his big ass breaking things and then expecting them to pay for it... his comment on apples current strategy are mere opinion and there are plenty of economic reasons for apple current business model, which like always, is in a state of continual transition.... the ppc970 is coming, i know for a fact it is, and it is bad-ass. as for longhorn, i am already hearing from many windows people and how they are considering the move to mac when this system is released.. it is the most blatant incarnation of "big brother" to date...
    oh well, i could go on and on, but i don't have time. and only time will tell, as a person who uses both platforms, i know whats best for me, and eventually others will come to see the light here.

    I see very interesting things coming from apple in the next two-to-three years.

    technocoy
     
  9. synthetickittie macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Location:
    Boston
    #9
    he talks about how bad aac music is.. is it just me or I love the way it sounds and cant even truely tell the difference between that and a cd I bought? Tomorrow two new cds come out that I definitly am going to buy only question is that I dont know if the itunes store is going to have the full cds on there by tomorrow or in a week or so because I want the cds TOMORROW, the day they come out. The cds Im talking about are manson and cold. If tomorrow before I go out they are all ready in the itunes store Im DEFINITLY getting them in that but if not Im going to buy them at a cd store. Anyone has a clue if they will be in itunes the exact day they come out?
     
  10. Sayer macrumors 6502a

    Sayer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    #10
    Tangent of One

    Apple does some spectacularly great moves (iTunes Music Store, iPod, iMac) and bungles a whole mess of stuff (Mac OS X, iPhoto, iMovie 3) over and over again.

    A developer making Mac software is today presented with a very large mish-mash of technologies in Mac OS X. You have pure UNIX junk deep down in OS X. You got higher level CoreFoundation and Carbon plus the whole raft of QuickTime APIs, OpenGL (you can make a complete menubar/window double-clickable app with OpenGL) and Quartz in addition to QuickDraw legacy graphics stuff.

    Above all that you got Cocoa which largely does its own thing building on top of stuff that is quite capable of making a fully functional app in their own right (Carbon/CoreFoundation/QuickTime).

    Apple has consistently pushed hard on Cocoa and given it a lot of the gee-whiz featurs first and foremost (Drawers, Toolbars, easy Alpha transparency). Sure Cocoa is a good framework, but Cocoa is not the OS like Carbon and Quartz are (the windowserver is not made with Cocoa). PowerPlant or MacApp (Photoshop was built with MacApp) is a good framework, but its not the Mac OS.

    A prime example of what Apple did wrong with Mac OS X is found in the Finder. From every angle the Mac OS X Finder is crap. Not because its built with Carbon instead of Cocoa (iCal, iPhoto, iMovie 3 all Cocoa all have serious performance and stability issues), but because in creating the "new" Finder many features and UI conventions were completely thrown out for no valid reason (the code worked fine in OS 9, why can't it also work on OS X with updates?). What they added was half-baked UI junk that would make any interface designer puke.

    The Finder uses a totally custom Column View API that has some large performance and usability issues on older (pre Jaguar) Mac OS X versions. Of course the public API for Column View is severely limited - it is basically view only with no in-place editing and can only initiate drag operations (not receive them into particular items like the Finder's Column View can). And forget about alternating colors in List View using Carbon (except for iTunes, Apple's baby, natch).

    This is yet another classic example of Apple doing what's best for Apple with private/protected features and then screwing anyone who would dare use anything other than Cocoa. Sounds like a certain software company north of Apple in a state called Washington?

    I have also seen evidence of Apple deliberately removing info from programming resources that third-parties could use to make a Finder replacement complete with a desktop layer window, in ADDITION to the severely limited Column View that is only useful for the pathetic Navigation Services windows.

    Oh boy Navigation Services. What was wrong with having menu-buttons for recently used items and favorites and a list view? How is one ever-changing menu and column view with botched preview any better? And why does a Mac have a frickin PATH text field? Can anyone honestly remember 5 layers of folder names on one of the many attached disks on their system which come under /Volumes not / aka root?.

    And how does hiding the .app extension at all times help the user when every other file type can show/hide its extension? Is that app a bundle or what? I thought bundled Apps were next to Godliness and forked-apps were the Devil Incarnate (of course when you have flat file systems all over the place and the need to accommodate software from the 1970s that works by typing various combinations of letters and symbols into a text window thats what you end up with by default)?

    Another case of Apple screwing users and developers: Internet Config. Created by a legendary Apple guy (the eskimo!) and finally adopted into the Mac OS proper in the Mac OS 8.x period. In Mac OS X, where file type extension mapping is all but MANDARTORY this huge repository of type/extension mapping is IGNORED in favor of a closed, proprietary system called Launch Services. An API that only Apple engineers fully understand instead of the open and widely used APIs of Internet Config.

    Apple didn't even bother to make an interface for Internet Config beyond simple internet app preferences, and then promptly migrated to Launch Services for all of these settings too leaving a deprecated but totally useful and robust system in place to confuse (non-Cocoa) developers.

    Apple has the big shots on board Mac OS X now, locked into the Mach-slOw executable format and related dev tools. Users are accepting file type extensions that severely limit file management and a Finder that 3 years later still can't match the Mac OS 9 Finder. Carbon lags behind Cocoa in feature matching by several major point releases and is now barely used by any Apple software anymore (FCP, iTunes and whatever they got from Emagic and Shake?). Be prepared for a mock funeral for Carbon as an app-level technology. Watch Carbon move down to a dirty, grungy midle-ware that Apple reluctantly uses to enhance Cocoa behind the scenes (you think Cocoa can do QuickTime or Text to Speech without Carbon?)

    Why oh why do I feel like a survivor of the Super Flu in The Stand looking around and wondering what the hell happened to the world. Yes the Mac and the Mac OS wasn't perfect before Job's return, but it could have been fixed without throwing everything that made the Mac a Mac out in favor of NeXTies ideas of what an OS should be/look like/work.

    And no, Copland was not meant to be what Mac OS X is. Copland was meant to be a transitional OS to bridge the gaps between the old shared memory space/cooperative multitasking world and the new microkernel multithreaded/multitasking protected memory era without sacrificing EVERYTHING that made the Mac unique and quite usable.

    Everyone may be heading to Las Vegas, I am heading to Colorado. Screw this mindless parade of Mac OS X CLI using Cocoa zealots who think anything that came before is ****. Blah.

    Maybe SARS will mutate into Super Flu and wipe the earth clean so we can just start over from scratch. Geeze I like the Mac and my iPod, but this whole Mac OS X thing is pushing me away every single day.
     
  11. markjones05 macrumors 6502a

    markjones05

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    #11
    He also talks about the speed of macs and how they are no longer up to par with the PC world. On that note, I question weather this guy has ever owned a PC because if he has, he would know that all that speed is reduced to a slow barely managable piece of obsolete crap within a year. Now I don't consider myself a Mac zealot by any stretch of the imagination, mainly because this is my first mac ever after owning numerous PCs. I do however, consider myself an individual trying to find the best computer for my money. And I must say that given the choice between Windows and OSX is no choice at all. OSX beats Windows hands down. Now people can argue about the prices and that we pay too much for flashy looking computers and over priced software and I might agree. But you can't put a price on reliability. And I have been down that damned Windows road one too many times to know that I am never going back.
     
  12. patrick0brien macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Location:
    The West Loop
    #12
    -Sayer

    Hmm. You make interesting points, but at the level of diplomacy that your points were made, I doubt many respondants will bother to cut through to respond to those points themselves.

    Emotionally-charged responses often create more off-the-point discussion than even you may have intended.

    I understand you are frustrated, but I'm sorry to see this.
     
  13. ozubahn macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Location:
    Connecticut
    #13
    Indeed. Many people react poorly to being labelled as plague fodder. My guess is that you could greatly enhance your argument by leaving out that bit.
     
  14. Jaykay macrumors 6502a

    Jaykay

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Location:
    Ireland
    #14
    Strange article.... the guys got some good points, but he also got some issues...
     
  15. eric_n_dfw macrumors 65816

    eric_n_dfw

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Location:
    DFW, TX, USA
    #15
    Have fun in Colorado, Sayer.

    (I'm a former "NeXTie") :p
     
  16. yzedf macrumors 65816

    yzedf

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Location:
    Connecticut
    #16
    PC != Windows

    Have you owned a PC before? If you had... you would not be saying that. There is more to the PC world than MS Windows. My 4 yr old laptop runs linux great (newest versions of both KDE and Gnome). Before that, it ran win2k very well, and win98 was quite good also. XP may or may not run on it (I don't care), but that is no different from a 4 yr old G3 that can not run Quartz Extreme.
     
  17. markjones05 macrumors 6502a

    markjones05

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    #17
    Re: PC != Windows

    Actually I have owned many PC's before. About six or seven if I recall correctly. Each computer has about a one to two year life running any form of windows from my experience. Every PC I have ever bought has come running windows. Why should I have to buy another OS when it comes with one that should work. Its too much of a hassle for me to own a PC when a mac provides me with everything I want and it actually works properly. I am unfamiliar with Linux so i really can't say anything about that operating system. And I agree that there is more to the PC world than MS. Too bad the majority of the public only knows windows. To me after owning seven PCs and dealing with the same problems everytime, I was way too frusterated to stay with PC's and switched to a Mac and havn't had a single problem thus far. Hence this is what I stated in my above post in an abbreviated version.
     

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