Man shot in London not connected to bombing

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by iGav, Jul 23, 2005.

  1. iGav macrumors G3

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    #1
    Why the hell didn't he stop running when instructed?

    Link
     
  2. CanadaRAM macrumors G5

    CanadaRAM

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    #2
    Maybe it would have something to do with being chased by angry men in plain clothes waving guns, esp. if one were carrying a nickel bag or something mildly illegal. If I were a gang leader looking to nab a rival, shouting "Freeze, police antiterrorist squad, really!" would be a good strategy.

    Once he was on the ground, with three officers on him, why the hell didn't they cuff him instead of terminating him?

    Did he have a weapon? Did he threaten the officers? Was he a danger to the public?

    You want a consipracy theory? Preplanned execution for unknown motives with the cover story of terrorist investigation.
     
  3. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #3
    Living as I do in this area, a non white person being followed by up to ten white thugs would merely be acting out of self preservation to get away as fast as possible.I'm not prejudging what happened here but it has a nasty smell to it and a lot of unanswered questions.The witness who said the person looked terrified immediately before he was caught held down and shot seems to establish the guy didn't have a clue what was happening.
    Latest is the guy may have been Brazilian.
     
  4. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #4
    Welcome to it. Now that more of your policemen are armed, expect shoot first ask questions later incidents of this kind.
     
  5. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

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    #5
    I completely agree with this. America's culture of firearms may have better prepared us for incidents like this. Someone's gonna get fired for this one..
     
  6. rosalindavenue macrumors 6502a

    rosalindavenue

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    #6
    If the eyewitness accounts are accurate he was wearing a heavy coat in 70 degree (F) weather. He had jumped the turnstyle and gotten on a train car. The police, not unpredictably, figured he was a suicide bomber who could have blown himself and them up no matter how many officers were on top of him. He'd still be alive if he had listened to the police.
     
  7. thedude110 macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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    #7
    Amen to that. Do we have a description of the man who was killed?

    More simply: What I want to know is WHY this guy was a perceived terrorist. What exactly were his "suspicious" behaviors in the tube? Did we really just have a public execution of a "free" citizen because he came out of the "wrong" apartment building wearing the "wrong" clothing? Was his skin color "wrong" too?

    Capitalism and democracy are at odds, folks. And where democracy promises equality to the free, capitalism demands that some be more free than others ...
     
  8. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #8
    The only thing so far is the police followed him from the house in Tulse Hill that was under survellance,its approx 2 miles from there to Stockwell Tube why didn't they stop him or even shoot him when he neared the tube station.It seems possible as a Brazilian he didn't speak english and was terrified by being followed that far by up to ten white guys in at least one car and on foot.
     
  9. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #9
    Say Hello to the Police State mentality. Everyone will be considered a terrorist first and treated as such. I wonder if Govt ever thought of monitoring the mosques and all the hate thats preached from them? Or how about just deny these extremist into the country in the first place? No its easier to treat everyone as a criminal because we want their $$$ so we will let anyone into our country first and then deal with it later.
     
  10. Omen88 macrumors regular

    Omen88

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    #10
    We want their $$$? Isn't their whole reason for coming in the first place is to get our $$$ or make their own $$$?

    I'm all for monitoring mosques and denying extremists in the country. Just as denying those who are just fortune seekers. Lets try and solve the integration issue before having more immigration.

    And to get back on topic. As someone already pointed out, why would you wear such a coat at such high temperature? Why don't you stop when armed people yell stop police? What the hell are you doing there (UK) when you supposedly don't understand English?

    If I see armed men yelling at me in a tube station where there are lots and lots of people I wouldn't be running away if I didn't have something serious to hide. I can't see some gang member shooting me for no reason at all in such a crowded place.

    You should be damn grateful to those police officers risking their lives for you! I would have acted just the same in their place. Chances were high he had a bomb.
     
  11. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #11
    It gets better and better: not only was it an apartment block that he came out of (i.e. from any one of the apartments inside), but he challenged the guys following him ("Wtf are you following me for?"), ran away, not unnaturally, and turns out to have been a Brazilian electrician. So next time they have to act fast, they'll probably hesitate and blow it. What a bunch of complete twats. Badly trained, prejudiced and clearly unstable. Not fit to be carrying guns in the first place. What the hell is the selection procedure? :mad:
     
  12. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #12
    If the Fashion police start killing people for dressing unseasonably there will be thousands of shootings in London which is probably the most multicultral city on the planet many many people don't speak english.Scots Irish and Geordies in teeshirts in January will be at risk.
     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #13
    What, it's a capital crime to be inappropriately dressed? Get real.
    Why the hell would you stop if three thugs are following you in Stockwell?
    He'd been in London for 3 years. He understood perfectly well. Well enough to know that he should get away from 3 aggressive, hyped-up racist thugs, such as abound in the South London police.

    I'm guessing you're white.

    Well I'm NOT grateful. I have many Brazilian friends, some of whom are Muslims too. Any of whom might be dead for this.
     
  14. Omen88 macrumors regular

    Omen88

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    #14
    Well if you can't understand "stop police" you may just have a problem living in an English city. But he apparently was able to speak it anyway.

    I'm drawing back my opinion though, because if it's true they started following him in plain clothes from the place he lived I can understand his reaction a bit better. They should have clearly identified themselves.
     
  15. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #15
    Where are you getting your news from skunk the beeb seems to be a bit slow on the uptake ?
     
  16. Omen88 macrumors regular

    Omen88

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    #16
    For most part my previous post already answered.

    <QOUTE>
    Originally Posted by Omen88
    And to get back on topic. As someone already pointed out, why would you wear such a coat at such high temperature?
    What, it's a capital crime to be inappropriately dressed? Get real.
    </QOUTE>
    No it's not, but it is a factor that makes you suspecious especially at this time.

    <QOUTE>
    Why don't you stop when armed people yell stop police?
    Why the hell would you stop if three thugs are following you in Stockwell?
    Quote:
    What the hell are you doing there (UK) when you supposedly don't understand English?
    He'd been in London for 3 years. He understood perfectly well. Well enough to know that he should get away from 3 aggressive, hyped-up racist thugs, such as abound in the South London police.
    </QOUTE>
    See previous post. In earlier news and posts it seemed as if though he didn't understand what was said.

    <QOUTE>
    If I see armed men yelling at me in a tube station where there are lots and lots of people I wouldn't be running away if I didn't have something serious to hide. I can't see some gang member shooting me for no reason at all in such a crowded place.
    I'm guessing you're white.
    </QOUTE>
    Well that's an easy gamble... I'll give you an equally crap reply to that as yours. So colored people have more to hide than white people?

    <QOUTE>
    You should be damn grateful to those police officers risking their lives for you! I would have acted just the same in their place. Chances were high he had a bomb.
    Well I'm NOT grateful. I have many Brazilian friends, some of whom are Muslims too. Any of whom might be dead for this
    </QOUTE>
    See previous post as well. I can't defend their actions because they should have identified themselves from the beginning.

    Though if he had a bomb, you might have had a lot of <any race> friends whose lives would have been saved.

    But again, I'm not defending their actions anymore. It shouldn't have come this far. I thought the whole thing started in the tube. My apologies.
     
  17. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #17
    BBC News 24, quoting from some Brazilian station.
     
  18. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #18
    O.K. don,t have 24 and the websites not being updated to fast.
     
  19. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #19
    Since you have retracted most of your points, I reciprocate by not replying to this.
    S'okay.
     
  20. Omen88 macrumors regular

    Omen88

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    #20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Omen88
    So colored people have more to hide than white people?
    Since you have retracted most of your points, I reciprocate by not replying to this.
    Quote:
    But again, I'm not defending their actions anymore. It shouldn't have come this far. I thought the whole thing started in the tube. My apologies.
    S'okay.

    Thumbs up for ending the discussion in such a civilized manner. You must be a great guy.
     
  21. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #22
    Thanks for answering this Skunk, its the old everyone is a criminal philosophy as long as it doesnt happen to you or someone you know. Doing nothing isnt the answer and neither is creating a Police state. This is why we dont need a police state but do need some common sense in going after these fanatic religions who preach hate.
     
  22. asif786 macrumors 65816

    asif786

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    London, UK.
    #23
    this one coat point is really one that is annoying me. yes, he was wearing a coat..but i'll tell you something:

    I was wearing a light jacket yesterday. it was NOT boiling hot in the morning when i came out. so, YES, the dude may have been wearing a coat. maybe he doesn't have 10 different coats to pick from so he can use the most appropriate one..

    and quite frankly..if 10 plain clothes police officers came up to me, and pointed guns at me..i'm not sure what i would've done --nobody know's what was running through the dudes mind before they shot him.

    if the police made a mistake..then fine. maybe it's a risk they had to take. but for gods sakes, i wish they would swallow their pride and admit they were wrong..what's the need to lie to the public?
     
  23. JW8725 macrumors 6502a

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    UK
    #24
    What i dont understand is....the guy was on the floor, clearly immobilised so why pump 5 bullets in him? why 5? 5 bloody bullets into a guy whos on the floor, whos not going anywhere at close range? This is pathetic. These guys are 'ment' to be professionals. I.e. able to determine a threat and act accordingley. This fella turned out to be completely innocent of links to terrorism. His poor family. Im sorry but this seems to be MURDER!!!
     
  24. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #25
    Until an officer shows up in uniform, 10 plain clothes officers with guns -- might be 10 people with guns.
     

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