Marine discharged over online Obama comments

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by fox10078, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. macrumors 6502

    fox10078

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    #1
  2. macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #2
    More Obama Derangement Syndrome.
     
  3. macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #3
    Another user over at another news site said it best:

    Not much more needs to be said, except that his own actions brought about his discharge. And he is no longer a Marine.

    BL.
     
  4. macrumors 65816

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    #4
    Let me preface this by saying I voted for Obama... I support Obama... and I will vote for him again. In this case, I am not making a literal comparison of him...

    And so with that...

    When speaking of Nazi Germany, I frequently hear about how soldiers should have went against the Nazi orders, and those who did are praised. They had personal convictions and stood up for them in a situation where they felt their side was in the wrong.

    Now having said that, if this soldier feels like he was being ordered to do actions that he opposed on a supremely personal level, then agree or disagree with him, I commend him for speaking out and at this point, refusing to go further.
     
  5. macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #5
    Disobeying an order out of personal/political belief is not the same as disobeying an order that breaks the law( in Nazi Germany's case, commit genocide).
     
  6. macrumors 65816

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    Except law is made by the government, and they were who ordered the actions.
     
  7. macrumors 65816

    Sedulous

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    #7
    Genocide is illegal even during war.
     
  8. macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #8
    BTW- Obama did not discharge this guy, the Marines did.
     
  9. macrumors 603

    mobilehaathi

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    #9
    I could be hardcore wrong about this, but I thought service members had somewhat limited free speech rights (as compared to regular citizens) under certain circumstances.

    Could someone either confirm this or tell me I'm dumb?
     
  10. bradl, Apr 25, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2012

    macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #10
    You are correct.

    Article 88 of the Uniform Military Code of Justice expressly forbids it:

    If this former Marine had stripped all parts out of his Facebook page referencing himself as a Marine, he might have gotten away with this, as being a civilian, his speech would have been protected by the 1st Amendment. But since he hadn't, and identified himself as a Marine and stated as such and more, he's subject to the UMCJ.

    He's lucky to get off with an 'other than honorable' discharge. He could have been court-martialed and dishonorably discharged.

    Consequently, I'm more interested in what our conservative group here has to say, especially those who oppose Obama and/or his policies; would they ally themselves with their conservative values, or agree that the UMCJ is paramount?

    BL.
     
  11. macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #11
    Although his behavior shouldn't be tolerated we have been involved in these dumb wars for far too long and who knows how many tours and stoppages he has been through. I think his direction is misguided, it seems he's following a more "Obama isn't American" line. If he had posted something like "**** the war in Afghanistan if Obama asks me to go back he can go **** himself" I'd have more sympathy.
     
  12. macrumors 65816

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    #12
    Well its like going to a job and then openly criticizing or calling your boss names, you'd be smart not to do it.

    Further, he is under contract, he should have known better.

    Now perhaps discharging is a little extreme but he definitely should have some disciplinary action against him.
     
  13. macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #13
    And in the Marines, he shall go no further.

    At least, using your poor analogy of Nazi Germany, he will not be shot or sent to a work camp.
     
  14. macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #14
    Obama's his boss. If I went on a public forum like Facebook and started trashing the CEO of my company, I'd get fired too.
     
  15. macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #15
    My guess is there are a lot of other issues at play here and this was "the straw that broke the camels back" so to speak. I would not be surprised at all to learn that the Marines were looking for a reason to dump the guy so yes they take something like this but end of the story is they were looking for a reason. Chances are they wanted him out for a lot of other things as well.
     
  16. macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #16
    He was not discharged because he criticized the president, he was discharged for disobeying a direct order from his commanding officer to stop posting derogatory comments online. After that order, he posted more comments and was then discharged.

    The public criticism of his commander in chief was a bad idea, but his deliberate and flagrant disobedience of a direct order led to his dishonorable discharge.
     
  17. macrumors 68000

    eternlgladiator

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    #17
    As a conservative and strong obama opposer I'd totally agree this man should have been discharged. I'm not familiar with all the details of court marshals and discharge types but he clearly deserved to be fired. It's basically common knowledge that by joining the military you give up certain rights. Beyond that taking orders from your superiors in the military or not is part of life. If he can't accept the rules or live within them then he deserves what he got.
     
  18. macrumors G5

    ucfgrad93

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    #18
    He was not dishonorably discharged. He received a "other than honorable" discharge.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-marine-obamabre83o1az-20120425,0,3632075.story
     
  19. macrumors G3

    Huntn

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    #19
    As a veteran I know that you do not bad mouth your chain of command in public unless you want your career to be terminated. There are ways to handle these kinds of issues, but they are specific issues, not just that you don't like someone or they are not of your political persuasion.
     
  20. Guest

    eric/

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    #20
    Actually according to the UCMJ you are allowed to have your own political beliefs and display them, so long as you aren't representing the military with such acts, and you keep it out of the work place.

    An example would be you could go to a protest, but you couldn't go to a protest in in uniform or go around screaming "I'm a Marine!!1" or anything stupid.

    Also, the article linked refers to COMMISSIONED officers and during duty. Not noncommissioned officers off duty.

    ----------

    Now this is much more believable and legal of a story.

    THe lesson to be learned here is to not friend your fellow serviceman on Facebook.
     
  21. macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    ACLU helps fight dismissal of Marine who criticized Obama

    Interesting. I'm kind of surprised by this, TBH.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...who-criticized-obama-20120426,0,1159806.story
     
  22. macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #22
    Now that's an interesting pairing.
     
  23. macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #23
    Oh, I know. :eek:
     
  24. macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #24
    Thanks for the clarification.

    I would have been surprised if the ACLU had not gotten involved. They are staunch defenders of free speech, regardless of the content of that speech. That being said, this guy was dismissed because he disobeyed an order to cease his public embarrassment of the Marines. He chose to double down and he was discharged. Even if the order was improper, his discharge was probably legal. (That's just my personal not legal opinion. I'm certainly not an expert on military law)
     
  25. macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #25
    Here's a question I'm hoping the vets here would know, if not, someone who might have experience in a military court.

    Would anything other than an dishonourable discharge mean that the serviceman would still be eligible for military benefits?

    I wasn't able to get that far to ask when 15 days from my 18th birthday Selective Service nailed me and had me in front of an Army recruiter, who told me I was medically ineligible for service.

    I know that dishonourable strips you even from benefits, but what about any other type of discharge?

    BL.
     

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