Marine One to be built overseas....

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Spizzo, Jan 28, 2005.

  1. Spizzo macrumors 6502

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    Another sad day for America.

    Another outsourcing of jobs. Whats going to happen when no one in the U.S. know's how to build a helicopter anymore?
     
  2. dejo Moderator

    dejo

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    #2
    Hmm. Is Hillary in favor of this move because she's hoping it will become her "Oval Office in the sky" in four years?...
     
  3. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    Isn't this what trade liberalisation means?
    This is the free market you guys talk so much about...

    It always seems when the rest of the world is encouraged to drop their barriers and let American goods in freely then it's a completely different story when it happens the other way round...

    Honestly, many American companies supposedly pride themselves on 'flexibility' and 'innovation'... Why the hell can't they adapt and produce quality goods that the world actually wants?
     
  4. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

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    Sort of, I see your point. But, liberals like Kucinich are calling for a worldwide minimum wage, which would make things equitable for all workers. The current conservative movement seems to favor using advances in technology to outsource jobs to areas where labor can be exploited for next to nothing.

    Since labor laws do not extend beyond out borders, this is a way to exploit third world labor, which means that American workers at home suffer.

    While it does benefit foriegn workers somewhat, it still means higher profits while paying less for labor. Which is going to hurt at home. And before this Administration the Democrats were pushing for increased labor standards abroad to even the playing field. Especially in nations like China.

    Outsourcing helps the corporations from the country of origin, but hurts the people who used to hold those jobs within that nation. It's not really as black and white as it seems. Outsourcing is a great way of negating any legislation passed nationally to help workers. And offers no protection against abusing third world labor. Sweat shop conditions may have been reduced here at home but there is little to stop the same abuses being created elsewhere.

    I think the issue is more about protecting labor standards that have been established and extending them. Things are still going to be produced if there is a need for those products.
     
  5. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    Liberals are supposed to follow the Golden Rule, which states that you would treat others as you treat yourself. If the playing field were even you would not consider going over seas to produce what can be made here. It's a difficult situation that really hurts most Americans while being incredibly beneficial to a minority.
     
  6. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    You make some very good points.

    However, in this instance about helicopters, we're not talking about minimum-wage or sweatshop conditions. It's a sophisticated, highly-trained workforce so the issue is one of quality...

    Japanese electronics, German cars, Apple computers... :)
    All successful due to attention to detail and overall quality.

    The real problem is the military-industrial complex and how your tax money effectively subsidises huge parts of the US economy... I'm not saying there's an easy answer and the U.K. does the same on a much smaller scale but it's exposed by pork-barrel politicians whining when things don't go their way...
     
  7. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    I consider myself outside your definition of what a liberal is... the current political thinking in the U.S. is so far right compared to most of the English-speaking world that this definition is akin to calling someone a communist in the 50's.

    Look, just what is the American goverment supposed to do?
    Are they there to subsidise local industries and effectively prop up a command economy or are they expected to buy the best product at the best price, no matter where it comes from?

    As far as American goods go in the rest of the world... the playing field is more than even, it's so heavily tilted in America's favour in so many sectors – through fair means and foul.
     
  8. skunk macrumors G4

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    #8
    If this principle was observed in US agriculture, many in the developing world would still have a living.
     
  9. Spizzo thread starter macrumors 6502

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    To me, It's not about a free market. It's about the fact that sooner or later, we will be buying all of our helicopters (insert any other form of transportation too) from over seas suppliers. What's going to happen when the U.S. (and it will happen) pisses off the country the suplier is located in? They will say, "Hey, no more helicopters for you" or worse, if we end up going to war, and lose our supply of helicopters, ships, etc... What will we do? We wont be able to fight. And no one in the U.S. will know how to build a helicopter, or whatever else.

    I have no problem with free trade, in fact, my job kind of depends on it. But I live in a country that can't even manage to move all of it's military cargo half way across the world to fight a "war". We have to depend on foreign shippers to do this. But when they get close to the war zone, they decide it's too dangerous, and off load is somewhere else for a U.S. ship to bring in. And like I said before, one day, there wont be anyone else to move our cargo for us.

    On the plus side, I heard that this is the first time this particular company is building a helicopter or this helicopter (I dont remember which). So our "beloved" president will be the test dummy. :D
     
  10. Ugg macrumors 68000

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    #10
    It's true the USD 6 billion in US subsidies has a massive impact on third world farmers, for instance Mexico is the second largest importer of US beef. However, UK farmers get a fair amount of assistance as well much less the massive subsidies the EU or Japan doles out.
     
  11. skunk macrumors G4

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    The UK is keen to abolish the CAP, which is the gravy train which European farmers are riding.
     
  12. Hoef macrumors 6502a

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    Yes it is!! The joys of free global markets .... We will all benefit in the end
     
  13. zimv20 macrumors 601

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    it's a little too early here for such a double entendre.
     
  14. Hoef macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    I was thinking of the world in general, not US citizens :rolleyes:
     
  15. D0ct0rteeth macrumors 65816

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  16. zimv20 macrumors 601

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    i'm not sure you got my joke.
     
  17. Spizzo thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Intresting...The News (CNN Headline) made a big deal of it being built overseas.

    Glad to see it's going to be built (mostly) in the U.S.

    Didnt realize that it is going to be more than just the presidents helicopter.

    Good!!! :D
     
  18. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    I did. It made my morning coffee all that more enjoyable.
     
  19. Juventuz macrumors 6502a

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    From Owego huh, I'm in Binghamton which is right next door. This has been all over the local news yesterday and today, it's HUGE news here. Lockheed had already started building the new facility to build Marine One. Job fairs will be starting in two weeks, they plan to add at least 900 new jobs. Jobs that are good paying.

    During tonight's newscast they made an interesting observation, the Pentagon required at least 65% of the helicopter to be manufactured in the US. Sikorsky lobbied to have the requirement lowered to 50%, which it was. Lockheed stated that they will have well over 65% of the copter built here in the US.
     
  20. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

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    One may wonder what other benefits Tony Blair is getting for his support of the war in Iraq. It must have cost the UK a fortune, though they will no doubt benefit somewhere along the line.

    Defense Department has 8 of the 25 programs most prone to cost overuns, including their Acquisition program, article number 3.

    You draw the lines, are we saving anything by building these helos in the UK?

    Sure, it's good for the UK, if you are ok with being paid off for supporting the war. Really, is the UK that much more cost effective than the US in supply 35% of the parts. Let's see the numbers.

    Let's play the semantics game, 65% sounds like most of the work is being done here, but how much is that other 35% going to cost us?

    Nothing announced under this administration should be taken at face value. If they are focusing on the percentage of where the the craft is built they are almost certainly doing so to avoid disucssing the cost of where the other 35% is built.
     
  21. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

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    #21
    To be honest, I first thought that the outsourcing was to save money. But then I read that artilcle and combined other history I have read concerning war time profiteering. The UK is not cheap, not from what I know and what I have read here about the prospect of good paying jobs. Welcome to the US system of political reward in support of policy England. Pork projects now extend to allies I guess.
     
  22. Hoef macrumors 6502a

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    Sorry dude, had to check back in the morning. Much better now! :p
     
  23. Juventuz macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    You do realize that it's not a brand new helicopter, it's one that's already in service. It was created as a joint venture between Lockeed and AgustaWestland. This is not war time profiteering.

    Had you read the various articles you'd notice that more of it will be made in the US than the Sikorsky helicopter.
     
  24. Don't panic macrumors 603

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    or maybe the lockheed/augusta was just a better copter than the sikorsky for the purported use...

    edit: they will fly, fully loaded, at >160 mph. not too bad
     
  25. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

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    #25
    According to the article, it had nothing to do with that, it was mostly political.
     

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