MBA getting case redesign possible intel LV processors?

Discussion in 'MacBook Air' started by ermir4444, May 25, 2010.

  1. macrumors regular

    ermir4444

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto On
    #1
    I think the only way the MacBook Air will get updated during WWDC is a MAJOR REVISION and most likely a CASE REDESIGN. If it was to get the minor update it would have happened with the MBP update in April or with the white MacBook in May.

    Apple needs to do a CASE REDESIGN, and redesign the heat-sink in order to have a Arrandale LV processor and an ATI card with a bigger battery.
    Current MBA TDP (SL9600 @ 17W + 9400m @ 12W = 29W TDP)
    Future MBA TDP (i7 620LM @ 25 W + 5470 @ 7W = 32W TDP)

    ULV processors are not really a choice for Apple considering the low clock speeds and weak performance. LV processors offer much higher clock speed at an extra 8 W TDP. Apple could redesign the heat-sink to accomodate the extra 3 W TDP and this will come only with a uniform case at 0.5" thickness.

    Another benefit of the uniform case @ 0.5" is the battery life. In current MBA he battery sits on the thinnest part. The volume of the case will increase and the thickness decrease offering space for a better battery life and greater heat-sink.Think a much thinner and lighter MacBook Pro 13"

    1 - Better Processor i5 or i7 LV and dedicated ATI GPU (better heat-sink due to more volume inside the case and maybe 2 fans)
    2 - Better battery life (More space inside the case for a much better battery)
    3 - More ports ( Since the case is uniform you could have 2 usb ports in the side and maybe an sd card slot and battery metter)

    Imagine Jobs coming on stage and saying we have a much thinner MacBook Air (0.5 vs 0.76) with a much faster processor (i5, i7) and killer graphics (ATI dedicated) with a 7 hour battery life. I mean people will sell kidneys to buy this thing. Can someone do a quick photoshop on a 0,5" thick MacBook pro with all the ports except firewire, ethernet and dvd drive to illustrate this better since i dont have Photoshop thanks. If this happens it will be my dream computer and ill definitely shell out 2000 for this baby...
     
  2. macrumors Core

    miles01110

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Location:
    The Ivory Tower (I'm not coming down)
    #2
    :: pinch ::

    Wake up.
     
  3. thread starter macrumors regular

    ermir4444

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto On
    #3
    I think everything stated above is more than possible and reasonable.
     
  4. macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    #4
    How do you figure you'd get a 7 hour battery with a thinner case? The MBP's battery is huge compared to the Air's. I also want a pony, I figure that's reasonable and possible.

    [​IMG]
    Use your imagination to remove the extra ports and pretend its .5" thick.
     
  5. thread starter macrumors regular

    ermir4444

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto On
    #5
    The macbook air has already a 5 hour battery on a .16" case. The macbook rpo has a 10h battery with a tdp of 41W in a .95" case. So a battery life of 7 hr with a tdp of 32 will be doable. And man get your expectations higher. You look quite whipped after apple and their "low spec" campaign. LAY OFF THE COOLAID
     
  6. macrumors Core

    miles01110

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Location:
    The Ivory Tower (I'm not coming down)
    #6
    There's a difference between drinking the Apple kool-aid and having realistic expectations based on past history and the limits of physics/mechanical engineering. Clearly you don't ascribe to either philosophy.
     
  7. macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    #7
    If you honestly believe its a 5 hour battery you are deluding yourself.

    I don't have an Air, nor am I whipped. I'm just realistic.

    If you want the things on your list you will have a boxy case and it will not be thinner, that's why I posted that photo.
     
  8. macrumors 601

    Scottsdale

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    #8
    I think you have missed the news and specific rumors about the ULV Core i7 processors. About two weeks ago, the rumors from Asia got a lot more specific about the way Apple is using the ULV CPUs in the MBA.

    The story goes, Apple is using the Core i7-6x0UM CPUs. The specifics that the rumors mentioned is overclocking the ULV CPUs. If the GMA IGP 45nm DIE is turned off, the CPU DIE can be overclocked nearly matching boost speeds. It makes a lot of sense assuming Apple plans to use a discrete GPU in addition to the CPU. This would allow Apple to use an 18W ULV CPU at upwards of 2.26 GHz and 2 GHz with an ATI solution at 7W in the 5430. This is a savings of 4W from the current total of 29W the MBA uses now.

    I would be all for a Core i7-640LM but that MBA is going to use only Intel's GMA for graphics. Apple doesn't need to use a low voltage CPU if it can disable the GMA DIE on the ULV CPUs and give us 2+ GHz. In addition, the current SL9x00 CPUs used rarely run at their stated clock speeds, so the ULV CPUs aren't truly much different than the current CPUs. However, it would be difficult to market a 1.2 GHz CPU down from 2.13 GHz. But that isn't the case if the CPU is overclocked to run at 2.26 GHz all the time.

    I wasn't a fan of the ULV bandwagon until I read these specifics. I now don't want a Core i7-6x0LM because I know that means we definitely get "stuck" with the Intel GMA as the sole graphics solution.

    Anyways, I think a WWDC MBA is a big redesign OR just a feature added something worth announcing a new relationship... for example, I could see Apple introducing a new MBA that isn't any different in case design IF it has a Verizon 3G/4G Wireless card in it. This MBA could certainly use a C2D CPU and Nvidia 320m GPU. The rumored Core i7 update could be the next update. Often rumors and prototypes are using tech that will not reach production for a year or more. I could see WWDC allowing Apple to introduce a new partnership for Verizon rather than the whole MBA itself. However, the new MBA could also be a complete redesign which probably would use the Core i7-660UM and Core i7-620UM overclocked with GMA IGP 45nm DIE turned off. Or it could introduce the CPU you champion with sole use of Intel's GMA HD DIE for graphics. I would bet heavily against a new MBA with a Core i7-6x0LM... given that it would require Apple to use the Intel GMA HD. SJ himself even came out against using it in the 13" MBP, so I have to believe Apple isn't going that route.

    I would say main possibilities are... C2D with Nvidia 320m and a Verizon 3G/4G card being announced at WWDC. Or a major redesign with Core i7-6x0UM overclocked with GMA IGP DIE off and discrete GPU. Apple could use the MBA first with the Verizon 3G/4G card. Or it could use the new Core i7 with discrete GPU first on the MBA. It would then probably migrate to the Core i7 and discrete GPU with other MacFive products early in 2011 with their next updates.
     
  9. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    #9
    i dont think mba will get verizon when ipad has att 3g
     
  10. macrumors 6502

    calsci

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
  11. macrumors Core

    miles01110

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Location:
    The Ivory Tower (I'm not coming down)
  12. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    #12
    OP's design of the New AIR is entirely possible. If they keep the weight under 3lb. I'll shell out $2k as well. However, the taper design of the current AIR give it the appearance of smaller footprint, I don't think new MBA will eliminate the taper effect. Not only it is sexy, it is functional as well--so much easier to pick up from a solid surface.

    I really like the current design and see no engineering flaw, other than the weak hinge. If Apple decide to kick up the sexy in the new MBA, I don't see them stray far from where it is now.

    Whatever the electronic will be, I'll probably upgrade. Deal breaker for me would be Glossy Screen. I hate a Bloody Glossy Screen.
     
  13. thread starter macrumors regular

    ermir4444

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto On
    #13
    I am very aware of the over-clocking on ULV processors. It seems you did not get the point of my thread. IF Apple redesigns the case the could redesign a heat sink to accomodate the 3W extra TDP for 640LM + 5430 = 32W vs current 29W. It is not hard to accomodate an extra 3 W tdp with a case redesign in my opinion. This would give the AIR an incredible boost and make it probably even faster than the 13" MBP and make it a much more vital alternative for people who want to have the ultimate ultraportable...
     
  14. macrumors 601

    Scottsdale

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    #14
    IMO, it's not going to happen... No way, no shape, no form, are we getting a higher TDP MBA. The MBA as is cannot handle 29W (the CPU and GPU are both throttled). Apple is not going to make it thicker to handle a higher TDP. What Apple will do is change the design to handle a lower TDP better. I would bet a brand new MBA on no way are we getting a Core i7-6x0LM PLUS a discrete GPU. We will EITHER get a Core i7-6x0UM plus discrete GPU OR Core i7-6x0LM with sole use of Intel's GMA HD.

    Apple is looking to go lower total TDP not greater. If it can give us 2+ GHz at 18W, why go 2+ GHz at 25W? It just doesn't make sense. This ULV overclocking info was the information that made sense of all of the rumors saying Apple is using a ULV CPU. MBA can go to 25W with a discrete GPU and ULV Core i7, and that's a true savings from current 29W. I don't see this happening any other way with the current chips... and the truth is, the ULV plus discrete GPU could be six to twelve months from now. The information and rumors always seem to take longer than we expect. So we could get no update now or even a C2D plus Nvidia 320m GPU right now, and the Core i7 ULV plus discrete or even the Core i7-6x0LM with only the Intel GMA HD could be coming later.

    I think anyone that is expecting Apple to give the MBA a discrete GPU is already dreaming... to get a Core i7-6x0LM plus a discrete GPU is more than dreaming as Apple couldn't even give the 13" MBP a Core i3 and discrete GPU. That is a 1" 4.5 lb Mac that actually needs a discrete GPU. For Apple to go discrete GPU requires a ULV CPU to pair it with to make it even remotely possible in even a thicker MBA. I just think you are giving Apple way too much credit to expect a low voltage Core i7-6x0LM CPU and a discrete GPU.
     
  15. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    #15
    I think anyone that is expecting Apple to give the MBA a discrete GPU is already dreaming... to get a Core i7-6x0LM plus a discrete GPU is more than dreaming as Apple couldn't even give the 13" MBP a Core i3 and discrete GPU. That is a 1" 4.5 lb Mac that actually needs a discrete GPU. For Apple to go discrete GPU requires a ULV CPU to pair it with to make it even remotely possible in even a thicker MBA. I just think you are giving Apple way too much credit to expect a low voltage Core i7-6x0LM CPU and a discrete GPU.[/QUOTE]

    what would happen if apple put an i3 and discrete GPU in the 13 MBP, too hot or make it to thick?
     
  16. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    #16
    here you go, I just took out all the ports, but I'm sure thats fine
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Moderator emeritus

    Hellhammer

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Location:
    Finland
    #17
    Just to add that AFAIK, C2Ds (i.e. current MBAs) need Northbridge which include memory controller etc. which pulls some watts as well (maybe ~3W)
     
  18. thread starter macrumors regular

    ermir4444

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto On
    #18
    That is quite true. I completely forgot about that. The memory controller is built in the arrandale chips so it will save that 3 W. The current MBA could have a 32W TDP after all wich is exactly the same as i7 640 + ATI 5430. Maybe Scotsdale is right and we are dreaming about a discrete GPU and LV arrandales but this is the only way that Apple can actually have a machine worthy to justify the 500+ on top of the 13" MBP. Most of the people looking for a ultraportable have gone with the 13" MBP because it was too good of a value compared to the MBA and the crappy performance just wasnt worth for the portability. i think the MBP 13" severely crippled the MBA sales and this could be the time to bring the MBA on top and worth the premium price or just EOL it...it would be worth it for me and this is coming from a potential buyer of a MBA that decided to make the obvious choice and get a 13" MBP...

    BTW sorry for my grammar English is not my first language.
     
  19. Moderator emeritus

    Hellhammer

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Location:
    Finland
    #19
    I think the MBA just needs a better battery and lower price tag. 13"ers now have up to 10 hours so that's twice the MBA battery life and IMO battery life is VERY important for MBA as it obviously is for people who needs portability a lot, not for people who let their laptop sit on the desk plugged in.

    7-hour battery life, SSD (even 64GB) in low-end and 1299$ price and I'm buying one, no matter what CPU or GPU it has, the current ones are fine for me. An additional USB wouldn't be a bad upgrade either as one port is bitchy.
     
  20. thread starter macrumors regular

    ermir4444

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto On
    #20
    I see your point of view and I agree with it if the rumours turn out to be true.
    I think you should take those rumors with a grain of salt because similar rumours were going around before the MBP Arrandale refresh. They said that Apple was prepping a core i5 with the IGP turned off hence a lower TDP of 25W (same as the curent P8xxx). It really made sense to me and for a while I was thinking this would be the only way if Apple was going to go arrandale on MBP 13". But as we know this was not the case. I do not think Intel will let Apple or any other company completely turn off the IGP. The main purpose of Arrandales coming out was for Intel to push this IGP in the market. They have a whole ordeal with NVidia about this issue and i really do not think Intel will give Apple a IGP-less ULV over-clocked to turbo speeds. If they do offer a core i7-640UM clocked at 2.0 GHz with IGP turned off and TDP of 18W than nobody would ever get the LV processors. it would just be too good of a processor for companies to consider the more expensive similar clocked 640LV. Being a shareholder i would have though you already taken the business part of it into consideration before suggesting a IGP-less over-clocked ULV.

    Thanks Mhkobe. Now Apple put an i7-620LM + ATI 4530 and take my 2 grand
     
  21. macrumors 601

    Scottsdale

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    #21
    Well, you think I should take the rumors with a grain of salt, but I am the one that thinks it's probably ridiculous to expect a discrete GPU in the MBA at all. In addition, if it were to happen it would be an MBA that has a total TDP under the current TDP. The only ATI GPU that could get Apple at 25W with the 18W CPU is the 5430 at 7W. The 5430 is the newer version which uses lower TDP. The 4530 you mentioned is an 8 to 12W GPU and an older tech replaced by the newer 54XX GPUs.

    I think a C2D CPU and Nvidia 320m GPU makes far more sense right now. Apple is about making as low costs systems work in as many Macs as possible. I certainly believe we're more likely to get a C2D with Nvidia 320m rather than the ULV plus discrete option right now. The longer Apple waits, the more likely the ULV plus discrete GPU options becomes possible. I know from prototype units that it takes a long time for the information of what's in prototypes to make it to a production model.

    BTW, I do think I am correct that you are dreaming beyond all dreaming to expect the LV Arrandale to make it with a discrete GPU in the MBA. Even the 7W 5430 added with LV doesn't add up to a total TDP within an acceptable range even with a modified case. If Apple waits for Sandy Bridge chips for the MBA, it can get nearly double the GMA HD performance and a lower TDP than the current 25W LV Core i7-6x0LM.

    I think Apple can get the clock speed it needs if all of the information is true about the ULV CPUs. In reality, it makes a world of sense to turn off the GMA IGP DIE and save the performance used in it and allow the CPU to be overclocked to near boost ranges permanently. It all makes a lot of sense if we think about it.
     
  22. Moderator emeritus

    Hellhammer

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Location:
    Finland
    #22
    Plus in my opinion, Apple has to increase the battery life, 5 hours is so 2008 for Apple portables. I think most MBA users aren't after performance so it doesn't really matter what CPU they are using, but portability requires good battery life which MBA can't currently provide. Add a price cut to that and SSDs in all models and it can compete with other laptops.

    An i7 and dedicated GPU doesn't sound possible as 13" MBP is still stuck with C2D and 320M
     
  23. macrumors 601

    Scottsdale

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    #23
    I agree. I still say the C2D and 320m makes the most sense right now. However, I don't want Apple to add battery performance to the MBA. Batter requires the weight of the 13" MBP. Anyone that wants a 10-hour Mac notebook has to carry around a 1" thick computer with the added 1.5 lb over the MBA. I think a 10-hour battery is ridiculous to begin with, as I would bet the vast majority (95%) use more than half the capacity on rare occasions only.

    If one thinks about it, the reason the 13" MBP and MB can have a 10-hour battery is they're thick enough and heavy enough to allow it. I want the MBA to have same performance characteristics as 13" MBP and MB. I don't want Apple to take away performance capabilities to give the MBA a 10-hour battery capability. I don't think most are being realistic here. I would prefer Apple not bog down or thicken the MBA nor remove its capabilities to get a 10-hour battery which is pointless for the vast majority of people anyways.

    I will be devastated if we get a 10-hour MBA. I will know that it means we have compromised performance, weight, and thickness to make that MBA happen. That MBA is already available and it's called the 13" MBP. Apple needs to leave it at that and tell its customers the honest truth which is what none of the MBA customers are considering when they expect it.
     
  24. Moderator emeritus

    Hellhammer

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Location:
    Finland
    #24
    I never said 10-hour battery ;) 7 hours would be fine for me, just some improvement from 5 hours as the real world life is always less. Of course without sacrificing any portability, otherwise it it would be nonsense. Apple seems to love battery life so I wouldn't be surprised to see better battery life, they can add extra 2 hours without any physical changes.

    Of course, that's just me but I can't justify getting MBA if I can get little bit bigger laptop or less with a lot better features. BTW, how much does the current Air get in real world?
     
  25. thread starter macrumors regular

    ermir4444

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto On
    #25
    it does make a lot of sense in a technical point of view but not in a marketing or business point of view. As i mentioned above Intel will never ever let a company completely shut down the IGP and permanently over-clock it to LV clock speeds. This would be in contrary with the existence of IGP itself and the LV class of processors. Think about it before you reply and my solution has the same TPD @ 32W as the current MBA so it is very much "within acceptable range" even with the current case design.

    I am not saying thats what will happen, I'm just saying it is a viable option and more than acceptable.
    They could go with the minor upgrade but I dont think it will make anyone upgrade from a MBA or even a MBP for that matter. People with common sense will still buy the 13" MBP.

    In my opinion it either major upgrade or EOL for the MBA. I just cannot see how Apple will justify the high prices anymore with a C2D and even if they lower them i just dont see how it will compare to the IPAD

    EDIT: I ment the ATI 5430 in my previous post. It was just a typo...
     

Share This Page