Micheal Moore is a Stupid White Man

Discussion in 'Community' started by Centris Fan, Jan 7, 2003.

  1. Centris Fan macrumors newbie

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    #1
    It's bad enough when someone tries to lie in order to get what they want.

    For Example, the title of his recent movie, Bowling for Columbine, is based upon an apocryphal story that has already been refuted.

    I could go on and on about how he staged the free gun at the bank, or that the lockheed martin plant he had his little rant at didn't produce missles, but that's not why I start my first thread.

    Moore had a nice little nugget about the victims on the planes on 9/11, finding it a great opportunity to make fun of them while at a London club.

    Here's the link http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=366725

    But here's the quote to save time...

    "What we did not expect was to feel so enraged at one point that we almost walked out. It was when Moore went into a rant about how the passengers on the planes on 11 September were scaredy-cats because they were mostly white. If the passengers had included black men, he claimed, those killers, with their puny bodies and unimpressive small knives, would have been crushed by the dudes, who as we all know take no disrespect from anybody."

    For those who see the need to make this place a forum for your liberal gripes, here's some of your own medicine.
     
  2. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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  3. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #3
    Michael Moore or Centris Fan?

    I don't know if any of you have seen Michael Moore live, or talked to him when he's fired up about something, but he really enjoys painting in broad strokes, pushing the limits of what most people would call reasonable, and pushing people's buttons to get a reaction.
    Why don't you mention the fact that there is a chapter in his book called "Kill Whitey"? Michael Moore will state something so absolutely ridiculous that you have to stop and say what the f---? But then you realize that underneath the hyperbole, there is something slightly different, but equally as shocking...the truth.
    Frankly I'm a lot more frightened and outraged when elected officials (or appointed as in bush jr) make bold lies and expect everyone to believe them as gospel when they know they're lying.
     
  4. pantagruel macrumors regular

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    #4
    Micheal Moore is anything but an idiot or a stupid white man, he is just obviously way beyone anything you can comprehend. The fact that you got so outraged proves his points.
    I'm sure you think the people at Black People Love Us are really all racists as well.:rolleyes:
     
  5. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #5
    I think Michael Moore has hit a nerve with the RNC, they seem to be unleashing all the attack dogs at once on him now. Maybe because it looks like his movie "Bowling for Columbine" is going to win all the documentary awards and it's not showing many of the conservtive causes in a very favorable light.
     
  6. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #6
    Let's just say I wasn't calling Michael Moore an idiot.
     
  7. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #7
    Micheal Moore, like Rush Limbaugh, Bill Mahr, or Bill O'Rilley, is a man w/an agenda and a podium. Like everything else you see, read, or hear take it w/a grain of salt and do more reading up on the topic at hand if you want to make an informed decission/opinion.

    Like them or not we need loud mouths on podiums yelling at us from the Left and from the Right to keep things centered.

    Lethal
     
  8. alex_ant macrumors 68020

    alex_ant

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    #8
    I think LethalWolfe said it best. Whether or not Michael Moore speaks the truth, and I'm sure he does at least some of the time, he hurts his causes more than he helps them by being inflammatory, polarizing, and frequently full of it. He's the Rush of the left.
     
  9. trebblekicked macrumors 6502a

    trebblekicked

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    #9
    the biggest problem facing michael moore is hand-me-down perception. Case in point- my roommate. I asked him if he wanted to go see "columbine" and he stubbornly refused, saying he wouldn't support anyone who is pro-gun control. He admited to never reading any synopsis of the movie, and not hearing any reviews, not seeing a preview. NOTHING. His father, a rigid conservative, had gotten on an anti-moore rant, and had spewed more hand-me-down perception he'd gotten from his own influences. This caused my roomate to dismiss Moore's movie without seeing one second of it for himself. Because moore is such a lighting rod, his arguments (which are often very well crafted and illustrated) are automatically dismissed by the very people he hopes to inform. His antics have earned him a long list of enemies who will stop at nothing to discredit him.
     
  10. trebblekicked macrumors 6502a

    trebblekicked

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    #10
    sorry

    as for the original quote in the thread, i'm fairly sure that the comment was of a satirical nature, and if not satire, it was bait.

    bait so that someone, somewhere would be so repulsed by this unkept man's insensitivity that they'd post it in some internet forum and before they knew it, they'd have fifty of moore's fans arguing on his behalf. then, moore's points, minus the satire, would be brought up in a more conducive one-on-one environment where his arguments might have more weight, and might have a bigger effect.

    now. which moore topic do you want to discuss?

    corporate greed?
    america's love affair with the gun?
    race/class systems in america?
     
  11. Judo macrumors regular

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    #11
    Hey Centris. Have you seen the movie?

    Have you got any links with information about how that Bank giving away guns was staged. I hadn't heard that before.

    As for the Lockhead Martin plant not producing missiles, well I don't remember anywhere in the movie with him saying that there was.

    An apocryphal story? about what? How they went bowling before killing 12 (?) people. He didn't even say that they did go bowling that morning. It was a question that came up, the whole movie was a question.

    Stop being so sensitive. That comment may have been out of line, but I'm sure what he would of said before and after that comment would have been informative.

    Hmmm must be all this ethnicity.
     
  12. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #12
    I have the same problem with Moore that I have with Limbaugh: They speak with authority they do not actually possess. They are not sources for fact or even well-thought-out opinion. They are entertainers who happen to base their material on current politics, and they gather and maintain their followings by appealing to and encouraging extremists. It is not in their interests to be progressive, because they are not politicians. It is in their interests to engender hatred and division because that gets them higher ratings.

    And don't get me started on O'Reilly. That man is an ******* of the highest order. The most complimentary thing I can say about him is that he represents a backlash against the wishy-washy sociopolitical stagnation of America. He appeals to approximately the same basic human need as Judge Judy or Laura Schlessinger -- the need for certainty, the need to believe that there is a simple answer and that they know who has it, and the need for a strong opinion delivered without hesitation. Essentially, most people miss having a parent hovering over them, and they seek that out in nationally syndicated personalities.

    In that sense, it doesn't matter what words are coming out of the Personality's mouth, or what (if any) reasoning is there to back them up. That's not what most of the listeners are there for. They're there to have someone tell them what they want to hear, with a sufficiently authoritative tone that they feel reassured and validated.
     
  13. SPG macrumors 65816

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    #13
    Most of what everyone is attributing to Michael Moore in "Bowling for Columbine" never even came out of his mouth. Usually it's the interviewee, not the interviewer who is making the outrageous statements.
     
  14. JQMonkey macrumors newbie

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    #14
    Despite what you might think of Moore I would strongly encourage seeing "Roger and Me." It is the most entertaining documentary I have ever seen.
     
  15. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #15
    From the FAQ on the Michael Moore website.

    http://www.michaelmoore.com/

    Q. Is that bank that hands out guns for real?
    A. Yes. North Country Bank (with branches throughout Northern Michigan) offers you a wide choice of guns when you open up a certificate of deposit account. In effect, they are giving you all of the interest the account will earn in advance in the form of a gun. The bank is also an authorized federal arms dealer so they can do the quick background check right there at the bank. I put $1,000 in a long-term account, they did the background check, and, within an hour, walked out with my new Weatherby-just as you see it in the film. (I did have a choice of getting a pair of golf clubs or a grandfather clock, but they didn't have either of those hanging on the wall like they did those three rifles). I learned about the bank's gun offer from an ad in the local paper that showed a gun across the top with the heading, "More Bang for Your Buck" from North Country Bank. I still have the account and the gun to this day (though I plan to legally "auction" off the gun for charity, and creatively have it destroyed (more on that later!).
     
  16. alset macrumors 65816

    alset

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    #16


    I don't believe Moore expects to reach those who most need to hear his message. Would you expect a serial killer to sit through your documentary about the social harms associated with killing?

    Those who have not seen this film should find a local theater that presents it.

    Dan
     
  17. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #17
    Eventually a lot of people will see the film. HBO, cable, eventually PBS, then rerun on a Saturday afternoon when there's nothing else on, people will see it. People who like Michael Moore will bring people who don't, some will rent it and force their less interested friends into it.
    I know of a couple people already who would never have gone to see anything with that sort of message get dragged along because that's what everyone else was doing, and it affected them.
    Or would it have been more effective if Michael Moore had called his movie "more guns for everyone!" and taken his name off it?
     
  18. Macette macrumors 6502

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    #18
    I think you're definitely right about the serial killers... but i do think that Michael Moore reaches a broader range of people than your average doco maker will, precisely because of his passion and willingness to look like a dag (dork?) for his cause.

    I saw Bowling for Columbine and thought even if 80% of it is polemical and maybe even bull****, his point is valid. And if the President of the NRA can't make a coherent argument for 'the right to bear arms', then who can?

    Go Mike.
     
  19. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #19
    howard stern is the rush of the left and he wanted to prove it with an all out radio battle with dr. laura, the most listened to right wing talk show host

    dr. laura declined

    might it have something to do with the nudy photos:rolleyes:
     
  20. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #20
    Left? What are you high? Just because a guy embraces debauchery, it doesn't make him a liberal. Howard wanted to debate "Dr" Laura because he could bring up the nudie photos and mock her for ratings.
    When it comes to politics Howard Stern has supported Pataki (R) for Governor of NY and Christie Whitman (R) for Governor of NJ.
    Whenever issues are brought up, Howard goes for the simplest interpretation and often leans to the right on issues like death penalty.
     
  21. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #21
    Oi, I have to wonder if the first post was flamebait or an attempt to make conservatives look like ignorant fools.

    As for Howard Stern, I don't think he figures into much any political statement.
     
  22. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #22
    That's hardly a defense of Moore. Moore knows the conclusions he wishes to convey. He asks questions of interviewees from that perspective. He interprets what he hears in light of that perspective. He selects interviews for inclusion based on how well they support his perspective, and edits the final product in order to make sure it says what he wants it to say.

    Don't think I'm questioning his integrity in doing so. That's pretty much the job description. You just have to realize that ahead of time, lest you think the things he shows you are completely accurate in the broadest sense.
     
  23. Centris Fan thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #23
    Instead of calling me an idiot, try coming up with an argument

    Does it make you feel better to call anyone who disagrees with you an idiot?

    If Moore can go around calling people Stupid White Men to "get people to think" and "engage them" then why can't I?

    If you folks are so much smarter than me and can grasp someone who is so beyond my constrained thinking, why don't you explain what his true meaning was in saying what he said?

    He basically said that people in the hijacked planes were cowards. He said that if they were black, we would not have this problem. If it's a joke, it's in poor taste. If he is trying to make a serious point, then that's even worse.

    It's kind of funny that you folks act like if everyone reads Moore's book then you'll understand, is pretty much the same as being on the right and saying if you read Limbaugh's, or Hannity's book you'll understand.

    You know what, it's ok to find something he says to be offensive. You don't have to suddenly throw out all your beliefs that are in line with him. I liked TV Nation when it was on NBC. I found some of the stuff he did to be quite funny. I find the way many corporations have laid of workers to pump up the stock price, to be reprehensible. Why can I not be outraged with what he said here, whether or not he was being serious. People have lost plenty a job for tasteless jokes on other subject matter. I am sorry if I do not think joking about people dying in a plane crash is funny, but that's just me. I am not asking for his head, I just have an issue with what he said. If someone with the genius to decipher some great meaning in this comment is out there, go right ahead and inform me.

    And yes, you can look at the previews for his comments at Lockheed where he asked about how we can be surprised these people would kill when their father built missles for a living.

    There are errors documented here http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2002/1209/059.html

    If you want to see the preview you can go to Apple's site. Even an idiot like me, who can't even understand that Black People Love Us is a joke, was able to do it without the help of a link.
     
  24. Centris Fan thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #24
    Someone could make the same argument that that's what Rush is doing when he calls people feminazis and the like. That he's just trying to push some buttons get a reaction and find "truth." How silly is it to think that just because you think something, that that's the truth, and that everyone else should feel that way. I see a similar tone in a lot of these responses to my original comment and ones in other threads. There is not an effort to have a legitimate discussion, it's... "you don't get it" "you don't understand" "you're a racist" "you're an idiot" "stupid hick" "this is too above you" "you just can't see" etc. etc. This much more of this than any sort of argument.


    Which people can be criticized for saying mean and terrible things? People you agree with? People who are trying "to push buttons"? People who are just joking? I never said he couldn't say such things. I just don't think it's right to say these things, but I am not stopping him. I am just pointing out what he said.
     
  25. Centris Fan thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #25
    This is a good example here. No "I think you took it the wrong way, this is what Moore was trying to say..." Right out of the gate it comes down to elitist name-calling.

    Howard Stern should be best described as a sort of libertarian. In fact at one point he flirted with running for Governor in the Libertarian Party. He is socially liberal in the sex, drugs, abortion realms. But he is also "conservative" on the economic reach of government. I believe during the talk of the surplus he said that people should just get the money back.

    As far as him endorsing Pataki and Whitman, that does not really preclude him from being a liberal, since both of them are on the left side of the Republican party on a number of issues. He should not however be seen as any sort of representation of the typical Democrat/liberal view point. He is really outside either political party.

    I will admit that in some ways, I could have brought up what he said in a better way. Perhaps in a way that would not incite so much anger. However, I take issue with the idea that Stupid White Men somehow has the monopoly of the truth. Also, even if he does have a lot of good points in his book, saying that I cannot criticize some of his public comments because he is somehow on some higher plane of thinking, is silly.
     

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