Michelin Offers US GP Tickets Refund

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by iGav, Jun 28, 2005.

  1. iGav macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #1
    Call me a cynic... but wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that their 7 teams are paying a visit to Paris tomorrow would it? :p

    Kudos to them for offering to refund all the U.S. GP attendees though, but also buying 20,000 tickets to distribute for free for next years race... maybe F1 will be back in the U.S. after all. :)

    Rinky dink link

    Meanwhile... things should be very interesting tomorrow, so what are people expecting? fines? suspended bans? points deducting? bans (BAR-Honda likely I imagine) :eek:

    Thoughts?
     
  2. mxpiazza macrumors 6502a

    mxpiazza

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    #2
    i dont follow racing too much, but as a huge sports fan in general, i am happy that they made this move... gotta keep the fans happy, and giving us as many event options as possible is a must.
     
  3. xli_ne macrumors 6502a

    xli_ne

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    #3
    that had to be a huge check :D but its good to see they are doing this. Those people in the stands that day looked pissed.
     
  4. barneygumble macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    I don't think they had any choice, they screwed everyone over :mad:
     
  5. flyfish29 macrumors 68020

    flyfish29

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    #5
    Michelin didn't screw anyone over. They had a tire with a defect and the powers that be wouldn't let them change the tire to a safe one- and all the teams wouldn't put in a chicane to show the race down around the curve that blew out all the tires because the Ferrari team were unwilling to compromise and let them put in the chicane. The powers that be wouldn't let them change tires to be safe either. They have to race on the same tires they use in the qualifying.

    so be pissed at the powers that be or the Ferrari team- not Michelin. Flaws happen in products- great to see them moving forward on a solution to help save racing in the US and their face.
     
  6. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #6
    We've been through this already. Ferrari had no say in the matter whatsoever. And penalizing the Bridgestone teams for having the correct equipment would just be flat out wrong, and turn F1 into more of a farce than most people already believe it to be. Also, the FIA didn't say "no, you can't use different tires" they said "You can use new tires, but be aware that the race stewards would be obliged to penalize you if you break the rules".

    As for the refund, it took them long enough. Maybe I can get one or more of those free tix to next year's race ;)
     
  7. JFreak macrumors 68040

    JFreak

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    #7
    right on. not all michelin tyres were faulty, and not all teams were affected. only toyotas had problems and had they brain michelin should have instructed only toyotas to retire. instead of what would have been wise, they challenged everything and insisted that they were the ones who set the rules. doomed.

    now all michelin teams were punished, especially kimi who had a great opportunity to finish ahead of alonso whose renault was an underperformer at indy.

    hopefully fia does not set any additional punishment for michelin teams, as fia already is considered favoring ferraris in every possible way. after indy fiasko ferrari is 2nd in constructors' and schumi 3rd in personal championship, and if fia bans michelin teams or takes away any points, there's nothing to stop ferrari from taking all titles once again. maybe they cannot let that happen.
     
  8. barneygumble macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    rubbish, about 7 teams had a tyre failure, they don't all have to explode you know
     
  9. Sol macrumors 68000

    Sol

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    Jan 14, 2003
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    Australia
    #9
    Closure

    The refund is the right thing for Michelin to do. The people who paid for their tickets and felt ripped off will get compensated for their trouble. Having said that, attending a GP costs more than the ticket price in money and time.

    The teams that did not race gave points to Ferrari. Dumb.

    I feel most sorry for the drivers. Kimi Raikkonen looked like he would close the championship points gap between himself and Fernando Alonso. Now Michael Schumacher is a contender.
     
  10. JFreak macrumors 68040

    JFreak

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    #10
    whatever. at least mclarens and renaults were in race condition, as their setups had been modified a bit after toyota accidents. kimi and alonso were assured by their chief engineers that their cars were safe. they just were not allowed to race, because michelin said so.

    (driver has a contract to a team and team has a contract to a tyre supplier. if tyre supplier says to the team that their product cannot be used in a race, then team must withdraw - simple as that. i don't know the details of their deal, but i believe it's a mile long and states something about this kind of situations too.)
     
  11. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #11
    There is a alternative, do what i do and watch Goodyear and Nascar instead :D Nothing like cars bouncing off one another at 190 but thats not civilized behavior now is it.
     
  12. flyfish29 macrumors 68020

    flyfish29

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    #13
    I am sorry- "we've" not been through this. You might have been but last I checked there were four posts to this particular thread(when I added my first post). I was just adding my two cents about the situation. Ferrari did have a say- they could have agreed to the chicane. I know they didn't make the rules about changing tires of course. also, I have no idea, but what would the penalty have been for changing tires?
     
  13. Rod Rod macrumors 68020

    Rod Rod

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    #14
    Ferrari could have agreed to the chicane but that wouldn't have changed the F1 rules disallowing the addition. Michelin messed up by not sending its teams a second set of safe/conservative backup tires. It's too bad that Ferrari hatred clouds vision.
     
  14. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #15
    We indeed have been through this. Go find the USGP thread from last week. As Rod^2 said, Ferrari's agreement to the chicane would not have changed a thing, it would have been up to the FIA anyway, and both Charlie (on the Saturday night) and Max said that adding a chicane would be completely out of the question. And the penalty for changing the tires would depend on when they were changed, and what the race stewards decided. I recommend you check out the correspondence between the FIA and the Michelin supplied teams that is posted on the FIA's website
     
  15. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #16
    almost forgot...
    Dont hurt me: you MUST be kidding me! :eek:
     
  16. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    Mar 9, 2002
    #17
    Actually the FIA stated that they would be allowed to replace their tyres, however Michelin themselves admitted that the replacement tyres they shipped over (rumoured to be Barcelona spec) were also incapable of completing the race.

    Ferrari were never consulted with regards to the chicane. Anyway, it would have made no difference, adding a chicane to a track poses it's on risks and possible ramifications... all were clearly outlined by the FIA.

    Ultimately you cannot start changing a race track to suit teams that have the incorrect equipment.

    See above, the FIA did offer the Michelin teams the opportunity to use the tyres that Michelin had imported over as replacements, however these tyres would have suffered in a similar fashion according to Michelin.

    The Michelin teams also had the opportunity to change damaged tyres in pit stops, which is clearly within the rules.

    Why Ferrari? they did nothing wrong and cannot be held accountable for ANYTHING that happened at the U.S. GP. They turned up with the correct equipment suitable for the conditions and raced.

    How would you have felt had Ferrari and Bridgestone suggested, at several races this season where they had suffered with tyre performance isses, that they required the circuit to be altered to allow them to race?

    What happened was Michelin's fault, and Michelin's fault alone. Not the FIA's, not Bernies and definitely not Ferrari's.

    Actually, all the tyres were incapable of completing a race distance if they ran turn 13 at race speed, and Toyota were not the only team to experience problems with them.

    I've not idea actually, the FIA seemed a little vague on the punishment had the teams swapped to another Michelin compound. However the Michelin teams could have raced, and changed the problem tyre every 10 laps and suffered no penalty.

    Anyway, back to todays events... it now seems that 6 (not Red Bull) will appeal the FIA's verdict.

    Rinky dink link

    I'm still not sure what I think about the lack of punishment so far, in a way I agree with a comment by Jfreak above, that the Michelin teams suffered a punishment by basically not gaining any points from the U.S. GP, and that is punishment in itself, especially in such a competitive season.

    But the way Michelin and their 7 teams behaved... it just doesn't rest easy with me... I'm just not sure what a justifiable puunishment would be though.

    Either way, the events of the U.S. GP has certainly closed the championships up just dandy :D Kimi will still win it though ;)
     
  17. psycho bob macrumors 6502a

    psycho bob

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    #18
    The FIA are to blame fullstop, the fact they didn't see it coming just shows are far up their own orifices their heads really are. The F1 rules for changing tyres have altered this year, another desperate attempt to inject some life into to one of the most expensive dull motorsports in the world. Michelin acknowledged they had a problem with their tyres as a result of the heat build up and strain the banking placed on them. They spoke to the teams and said they could not guarantee the safety of the drivers. The teams and Michelin put forward the chicane idea but got shot down by the FIA. Even if Michelin had a tyre they felt would work the formula rules would not have allowed the teams to use it.

    After all other avenues were exhausted the teams decided to pull out. The FIA press machine then rolls in to action threatening Michelin with bringing the sport into disrepute. The FIA had options to modify the track so the race could have gone ahead, they knew the teams were uncomfortable but chose to do nothing.

    The sooner the fat cats get out of F1 the better. The same weekend as the US grand prix was the Le Mans 24 hours. I watched the race and it was superb, sportscar racing is more passionate then single seater competitions. The irony was that for an endurance race there was more passing and action then in a whole season of F1 and seeing Tom Kristensen make history as he did was a sight to behold.
     
  18. flyfish29 macrumors 68020

    flyfish29

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    New HAMpshire
    #19
    I guess you didn't understand my post. You said We've been through this. However, I never read another thread about this topic and really don't care to right now. My point was when you make a comment like We've been through this- don't say "we" say this has already been covered and link the thread or something. Sure I could go search for it I guess, but I was just responding to the original poster and having a discussion in this particular thread. Enough said. :rolleyes:
     
  19. mac-er macrumors 65816

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    Apr 9, 2003
    #20
    Could someone explain why F1 has different tires on cars?

    Seems it would give some teams an advantage over others.

    One reason why NASCAR is better, IMO, is because you are watching drivers race, not equipment...they have pretty standardized everything (engines, tires, templates, etc).
     
  20. orangedv macrumors member

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    Feb 15, 2002
    Location:
    England
    #21
    what have you been smoking fellah?

    Please do not apply the wear and tear pit stop scenario to tyres exploding on diamond tip cut race tracks. Sorry but no way.

    As for the second comment, that is just nuts. Here is the opinion of a guy who knows a heck of a lot more about the sport than you.

    "The US Grand Prix fiasco could have been avoided but for the intervention of Formula One boss Max Mosley, Minardi boss Paul Stoddart has said.
    Stoddart said most F1 teams had lost faith in Mosley - the president of F1's governing body the FIA - and repeated calls for his resignation.

    He said Mosley resisted all attempts to solve the problem of Michelin being unable to guarantee its tyres' safety.

    "Mosley failed in his duty so I have called for his resignation," he said."
     
  21. Dale Sorel macrumors 6502a

    Dale Sorel

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    Jan 12, 2003
    #22
    Formula One is, and always has been, a showcase for developing technologies.

    So why have Roush/Yates, Penske, Gibbs, and Hendrick outclassed everyone else this year :rolleyes:

    Simple answer: $$$
     
  22. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #23
    and THEN you proceed to quote Paul Stoddart, of all people??? :D :D
     
  23. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #24
    Ignorance and laziness are not excuses.

    Alright, there are FAR too many people with their fingers in their ears. I will now post a quote direct from Charlie Whiting's correspondence with Pierre Dupasquier of Michelin regarding the tire problem.
    emphasis mine.
    link further correspoondence
    letter from Max Mosely to Eduard Michelin (pdf)

    As for Stoddard, he should go back to playing with his planes, and leave racing to the real professionals. :mad:
     
  24. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #25
    And why not?

    But for your information, I was only reciting suggestions made by the FIA. ;)

    Secondly... the Indianapolis Motorway Speedway has been diamond ground for a while now, nothing special there.

    Why is it nuts? Had Michelin bought tyres suitable for racing then there WOULD NOT have been a problem would there? Thought not. ;)

    And what does that have to do with it? I've never claimed to be any kind of authority on F1... just a fan, with an opinion as valid as anyone elses.

    Of course the U.S. GP fiasco could have been avoided had the FIA decided to change the rules in favour of the teams that had turned up to a race with the incorrect equipment. :rolleyes: :p

    But had Michelin actually bought a tyre suitable for the conditions, then there wouldn't have been a 'fiasco' in the first place would there? Lets not forget that the FIA only a few weeks ago issued a statement regarding tyre safety and durability.
     

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