Microsoft employees claim Apple lifted 'Spotlight' idea st...

Discussion in 'MacBytes.com News Discussion' started by MacBytes, May 16, 2005.

  1. macrumors bot

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  2. Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #2
    Tiger *is* an early build of Longhorn. One and half years early, at least! :p ;) :D
     
  3. macrumors 6502

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    #3
    They're just trying to cover their own butts since one of their higher ups promised that this would be the first exclusively Microsoft built OS by them.
     
  4. Guest

    iGary

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    Randy's House
    #4
    Micorsoft sure has been spreading the FUD lately.

    iPod's dead.

    Spotlight ours.

    Duh.
     
  5. macrumors Core

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    Jan 6, 2004
    #5
    wow, MS likes to talk **** these days dont they?

    i thought their great search might have been on hold? i think they are starting to fear the competition now. aren't they just a great company?!
     
  6. macrumors G5

    nagromme

    Joined:
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    #6
    MS really can't win this one... but it's interesting that they're feeling defensive :D

    If MS did search "first" and then Apple got the idea from Longhorn, then they sure worked fast... they surpassed MS's head start and went from zero to a complete as-you-type solution integrated with the OS, in a fraction the time it has taken MS to even get started... with Longhorn still just a vague hope for late next year. Why so slow, MS, if Apple can start late and still do so much more in so little time? Why, I hear that Apple even has a robust new metadata system under the hood, still largely untapped, waiting to make Spotlight even better....

    But all evidence is that Apple was working on Spotlight long before Longorn was shown. Spotlight is inspired by iTunes search, Sherlock, even BeOS (apple hired someone from Be) and, of course, the OBVIOUS need that people have always had for searching. It's just that the time has come to do it well.

    Besides, MS is about the fifth company to make an awkward, slap-on, non-instant, non OS-integrated search bar add-on for Windows. They weren't even first with the half-way solutions!

    See also this article:

    http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/16/technology/personaltech/microsoft_search.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

    Funny, I see a prefs panel in Tiger that does that too. Not to mention, if you use File Vault, that stuff is indexed within the vault. That's right: if your data's encrypted, then the index OF that data is automatically encrypted too.
     
  7. Moderator

    dejo

    Staff Member

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    #7
    So what will Longhorn search have that this new MSN Desktop Search doesn't have, since this is only a taste? Tabs perhaps? Or integration with the OS?...
     
  8. macrumors G4

    Applespider

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    #8
    We need a 'yawn' smiley just for stories like this

    I agree completely with Nagromme's points on speed of development and earlier iTunes search etc
     
  9. macrumors member

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    #9
    How about LaunchBar from back in 2001?
     
  10. macrumors 68000

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    #10
    Next thing you know, Microsoft will be complaining they invented Dashboard and that Apple stole it. Oops, I mean Konfabulator.

    :D
     
  11. Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #11
    *counts seconds until thread devolves into an argument over who owns props to GUIs* ;) :eek: :D
     
  12. macrumors member

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    #12
    As obsurd a thought it is that Apple Stole search/spotlight from M$, let's remember who stole what from who first. Ofcourse half of these M$ developers aren't old enough to remember those days ;) :eek:
     
  13. macrumors Core

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    #13
    you mean a yawn likt this one? ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Guest

    iGary

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    #14
    Who cares who got who, whatever.

    Apple's is obviously superior and it is here and now, not vaporware like Longhorn.
     
  15. macrumors 6502a

    iJaz

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    #15
    My thoughts exactly. Wow, Apple must be copying fast!
    I actually think it's the other way around, as Steve Jobs said: "They can't even copy fast" :D
     
  16. macrumors 65816

    asif786

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    London, UK.
    #16
    exactly; longhorn just shows how inefficient ms really are. as i've said before, anyone would think ms is paying their developers to be slow..!

    oh, and lol at that steve jobs comment. i love his lil' quips at ms / billy g.
     
  17. macrumors 68000

    jimsowden

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    #17
    Name one innovative thing from Windows, just one. really, what have they thought up?
     
  18. macrumors Core

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    #18
    ummmm.... they recycle rather than trash? :p :rolleyes:
     
  19. macrumors 68020

    mainstreetmark

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    #19
    The arrow to denote an alias/shortcut?


    Anyways, I can recall about 10 or so years ago that some Help program in windows had results-as-you-type. Not exactly meta-data, but just plain data.

    The whole thing is really quite silly. "We thought up searching first!" It's an obvious path that the evolution of computers must go down. Who really cares who came up with it first -- It's always been here, now it's just better. I don't really even call this an invention.

    Like the people that say that if Otis had not invented the elevator, there'd be no skyscrapers.
     
  20. macrumors 68040

    shamino

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    #20
    Let's not forget Jef Raskin. His book The Humane Interface describes (among many other things) the need for a fast and robust search system. This way, users don't have to concern themselves with the mechanics of where their data is stored, and can simply focus on the data itself. (Actually, Jef was opposed to the whole concept of files and file names as well. If you have a sufficiently robust search system, and you have an inkling of what you're looking for, then you don't need to know what the file's name/location is or even that there is such a thing as a file.)
     
  21. macrumors 68040

    shamino

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    #21
    If there were no elevators, then there would be no skyscrapers. This much is obvious.

    But that's not the same as saying "if Otis didn't invent the elevator...". If he didn't, somebody else would have.
     
  22. macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    Everything Microsoft has ever sold has been "invented" by someone else, so, they don't have a leg to stand on with this argument. Sour grapes.
     
  23. macrumors 65816

    narco

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    #23
    If I remember correctly, isn't the Longhorn search based on a completely different technology? Well, maybe not completely different, but I remember reading that Spotlight is more of a basic version of the future Longhorn search thing. Still, if I also remember correctly, Spotlight production started before Longhorn. Did I read correctly?

    Fishes,
    narco.
     
  24. macrumors 68040

    shamino

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    #24
    All search is based, ultimately, on reading every file and building a database containing everything you find, working fromthe (usually reasonable) assumption that searching the database will be much faster than reading every file at the time of a search.

    I was under the impression (based on Jobs' presentations) that Spotlight was integrated down into the file system, making it more efficient than would be possible with a standalone application. But after seeing many reports from actual users, I don't think this is what they're doing. There appears to be a utility program that runs in the background indexing files when they are created/changed. I assume this program gets OS-level support about when files are changed so it doesn't have to scan the entire drive looking for changes (the way Microsoft's FindFast utility does), but there doesn't seem to be any integration beyond this.

    There is, of course, beautiful integration at the desktop/application level, but a good UI is rarely something that I would consider groundbreaking. Especially when the UI has been implemented in iTunes for over a year.

    WRT Longhorn, I don't know what they're doing, so I can't say if Spotlight is similar. I know that the much-ballyhooed "WinFS" file system (which makes an entire drive a huge database that can be quickly indexed and searched) was dropped from Longhorn. MS's current search products (a suite of toolbars) don't appear very much different from everything that's come before (FindFast, Google, etc.)

    As for who started first, we'll never know. Apple has been developing various search technologies for a long time (starting from Sherlock in, I think, MacOS 8). Microsoft has also been developing this for a long time (starting from FastFind in, I think, Office '95). And Jef Raskin wrote about the need for fast and accurate search technologies for quite a long time, and actually implemented some of these ideas in the Canon Cat.
     
  25. macrumors 603

    aswitcher

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    #25
    I am pretty sure Apple will have or wll be getting a patent for Spotlight...MS cant do much about that.
     

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