Microsoft Piles -- er Stacks?

[MacRumors]

Longhorn was demoed on Monday at Microsoft's Professional Developers Conference.

One feature appears similar to a rumored feature from Apple called 'piles':

A demonstration of WinFS featured a method to "stack" documents by author in a window, with the heights of the stacks corresponding to the number of documents, as well as file views that showed snapshots of documents, rather than just file names

These rumors did not turn out to be true, but Apple does hold a patent on their version of this UI element.

 

[rjstanford]

Stacks

Bring on the enevitable Microsoft bashing for "stealing" a feature rumored to be (but not actually in) Panther... Still, this really does seem to be more of an iterative development than even an evolutionary one. As for the snapshots, that's been getting closer for quite some time now.

 

[evolu]

Look at him up there - he looks all evil.

 

[Mudbug]

a "beta" for the first service pack of the Windows Server 2003 system in the first half of 2004.

this makes me giggle deep down...

nothing like timing product release for when it's relevant... They might as well rename the thing Windows Server 2004, or 2005 for the sake of it (probably) not coming out until that year anyway.

 

[Einherjar]

Heh, so that's why it's now 2006! They're just biding their time for Apple to perfect X so it can be copied!

Welcome to 1987, people.

/mini-zealot

 

[1macker1]

Umm, cool feature, but surely this wasnt the highlight of the demo.

 

[alset]

I'm actually getting pretty excited to see what happens with this over the next six months. We should make a checklist of OS X ripoffs and have a friendly betting pool on how many and which features will be copied (not for money, of course).

Dan

 

[jouster]

Heh, I have to say that whenever mac and MS fans argue about who thought of something first (like this piles thing or online music stores or whatever), I laugh to myself.

After all who cares? The only thing that matters is whose implementation is better.

If you can steal a (non patented) idea and do a better job, more power to you.

If it looked useful at the Longhorn demo, I should think we'll see it in 10.4 or 10.5

 

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by alset
I'm actually getting pretty excited to see what happens with this over the next six months. We should make a checklist of OS X ripoffs and have a friendly betting pool on how many and which features will be copied (not for money, of course).

Dan

http://www.flyonthemac.com/

gentlemen (and ladies, of course ), place your bets

 

[jxyama]

anyone here a serious developer (by trade, i assume, if you are frequently a mac site... ) for windows? i'm curious what the developers think of Longhorn. for that matter, i'd love to hear what developers for apple think of panther.

i'm quite ignorant and definitely don't trust microsoft but to me, all Longhorn seems to be is improved eye candies and not much more. (and an utterly useless - so it seems - large icon trey on the right, further taking up precious desktop real estate...) is it really better? will the file systems be improved?

they seem to be mentioning how the additional trey can hold stock information, clock, etc. is that really worthy of being mentioned in a pre-beta of an OS? is that part of the core function of an OS? doesn't M$ have more important things to worry about in designing their OS than where to put a large clock or real life stock quotes?

just asking...

(ok, not really. i've had it with Windows. they won't get much credit or my trust back until i see something good from them.)

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by Mudbug
this makes me giggle deep down...

nothing like timing product release for when it's relevant... They might as well rename the thing Windows Server 2004, or 2005 for the sake of it (probably) not coming out until that year anyway.

Not sure I follow you. Windows Server 2003 has been out for some time. They are talking about the "service pack".

 

[1macker1]

A function of Expose has been a part of Windows since 98. So I think they just try and copy each other.

Originally posted by alset
I'm actually getting pretty excited to see what happens with this over the next six months. We should make a checklist of OS X ripoffs and have a friendly betting pool on how many and which features will be copied (not for money, of course).

Dan

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Longhorn is a rewrite of Windows.

"In Longhorn, a new window management tool...Expose".

"Don't you mean Exposé?"

"No, EXPOSE. Without the accent."

 

[1macker1]

ummm, ok.

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac

Longhorn is a rewrite of Windows.

"In Longhorn, a new window management tool...Expose".

"Don't you mean Exposé?"

"No, EXPOSE. Without the accent."

 

[jxyama]

Originally posted by 1macker1
A function of Expose has been a part of Windows since 98. So I think they just try and copy each other.

ok, this is borderline troll here. i have been using windows since 3.1 and don't ever remember being able to go to a window that's, say, 5 layers below the one i'm currently working on using just one keyboard button and one click of the mouse.

minimizing all to the taskbar and pulling up the one you want is not the same. tiling all (which makes each window usually too small to be distinguishable) and selecting the one you want is not the same.

the "intent" might have been there, but the implementation is so poor that i don't think you can call it a copy. expose is by far the most elegant imprementation as far as i can see.

 

[1macker1]

Show desktop is in Windows 95, not 3.1. And as fas as me being a troll, I guess I am, a Truth Troll.

Originally posted by jxyama
ok, this is borderline troll here. i have been using windows since 3.1 and don't ever remember being able to go to a window that's, say, 5 layers below the one i'm currently working on using just one keyboard button and one click of the mouse.

minimizing all to the taskbar and pulling up the one you want is not the same. tiling all (which makes each window usually too small to be distinguishable) and selecting the one you want is not the same.

the "intent" might have been there, but the implementation is so poor that i don't think you can call it a copy. expose is by far the most elegant imprementation as far as i can see.

 

[Shrike_Priest]

The thing is. This isn't like other stuff MS has "stolen". This is something that Apple actually holds a patent on.

it sounds VERY similar to piles. And I'd say MS are in trouble if it's true. Or then again, maybe not. If Apple sues MS can just say "No more Office for you!".

 

[SiliconAddict]

You want your piles? I got your piles right here:

I loath this man with a passion. The smug little sanctimonious POS.

 

[jxyama]

show desktop? huh?

care to refresh my memory please? and how does that help me easily get to window toward the bottom in a multiple window layered mess? (and knowing exactly which window you'd be bringing up to the top)

edit: i said i've been using windows since 3.1. i didn't say this mysterious expose-equivalent feature you are talking about didn't exist in 3.1

edit2: your show desktop method doesn't work because windows equate an application with a window. (usually) if you had 5 word documents open, they will be 5 inner windows within one window for application for word. when you show desktop with that, you will see one task bar at the bottom with "word" and not 5 bars for 5 documents...

 

[AidenShaw]

Try <ALT><TAB>

Originally posted by jxyama
ok, this is borderline troll here. i have been using windows since 3.1 and don't ever remember being able to go to a window that's, say, 5 layers below the one i'm currently working on using just one keyboard button and one click of the mouse.

Have you tried <ALT><TAB> - just make the icons into thumbnails and you've got something functionally similar to Expose'

 

[bennetsaysargh]

ok, i have a hypothesis.
MIP (minimize in place) was a feature in the early dev builds of jag, right? it was used to test out the badges in the docks. panther was rumored piles. piles from the description, can be expanded into expose`. i think piles might have been a way to test how expose could work on a smaller scale before it was on a larger scale like it is today in panther.

 

[P-Worm]

I haven't heard of this show desktop thing being just like Exposé either. I must be ignorant.

P-Worm

 

[1macker1]

i didnt say all the functions was there, but the 'clear desktop' has been a part of windows.

Originally posted by 1macker1
A function of Expose has been a part of Windows since 98. So I think they just try and copy each other.

 

[jxyama]

Re: Try <ALT><TAB>

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Have you tried <ALT><TAB> - just make the icons into thumbnails and you've got something functionally similar to Expose'

ok, this, i didn't know. and this is more similar to expose, i agree and i admit. (why don't they advertize this more? weird...)

still suffers from window's fundamental problem of (usually) equating one window for one app, though. (sorry, had to get the last word in there even in an apologetic post. )

 

[Phil Of Mac]

The clear desktop is perhaps the most minor part of Exposé.